Hello all. First time poster here, and I have to say that I like the look of this website. I see myself coming here often. My name is Tourq, and I run Stuffer Shack. I have a question and I hope to get some insightful feedback.

My buddy (John Lewis from Forsaken Destiny ) asked me to run him and a few others in a short Warhammer Fantasy game - kind of an experiment for all of us. I jumped at the chance, though I had no idea about the game, setting, or mechanic. We ran an adventure for four sessions, and generally had a good time. My question is this: Is the adventure that I ran in keeping with Warhammer Fantasy? I admit that I didn't read all of the books, and had only a minor grasp of the game. I'm just curious if the adventure would fly for a more seasoned Warhammer Fantasy group, or if it insults the game. If you'd like to read the adventure, it's posted here (The Road to Blackmoor) .

Thanks everyone,

-Tourq

I've not fully read it but it looks like a well-written adventure. Whether it fits the Warhammer universe is another matter.

How can the scientist's research disprove magic? That seems to be impossible to reconcile with Warhammer lore. Magic is practiced by wizards and is very clearly witnessed in this world.

Electricity as well (even if it is just the discovery of it), might take away a bit from the setting feel, at least if you're using this as an early scenario to introduce new players to the Old World.

But... It's your game and of course you are absolutely free to do with it whatever you want. If you want to stay true to the "Warhammer feel" though, I'd make some adjustments.

I saw an animated movie a long time ago. The premise was a modern-world man getting sucked into a fantasy boardgame as a dragon. In the end of the movie the main character defeats the big bad evil guy by displaying his knowledge of science, thus, disproving and diminishing the evil guy's power.

Same concept here.

In a sense, this adventure marks the very beginning of the end of the fantasy world. Around the corner is the beginning of the age of science. It's not meant to be the start of a world-changing campaign, just an adventure for some random heroes. It would likely not come into play again.

Thanks for the input.

-Tourq

Yeah, I like it. I think it works fine. What I would do to put it more firmly in the WW, is simply have the generator powered by Warpstone and perhaps built to stolen Skaven designs, because the skaven warpstone machines are established as the most advanced electrical technology of the setting and the warpstone will tie the technology to the Chaos magic.

From the adventure:

" ... an area that magic (as it is understood by mortals) no longer exists. However, being that chaos magic cannot be understood, it remains unnaffected ... "

Yeah, I would do as monkeylite suggests, and tie it in to Skaven technology instead.
Especially because in the end the magic that humans use, IS chaos magic. The above premise doesn't sit well with me, even when you ignore magic lore.

However, it does seem/sound like a good adventure apart from that, especially all the suggestions at the end allow for one very dark conclusion.

Tourq said:

I presume the movie you referenced was this?

Are you talking about The Flight of Dragons? That was a fun movie when I saw it as a kid:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Flight_of_Dragons

Ha, Flight of the Dragons that takes me back.... I think I have that somewhere on VHS, probably next to The Hobbit, The Lord of the Rings, Wizards and The Return of the King... great memories....

Anyway the campaign should work well for the warhammer setting if you follow the advice above; either link it to Skaven technology or a chaos artifact. The influence of Chaos would be in keeping with the thematic opposition of the adventure however a Skaven link could allow for another dimention to the adventure.

The Skaven could be trying to track down the equipment and come into conflict with the PC's, particularly amoral PC's might even use the Skaven as allies, bartering the warpstone for information, aid or direct power.

The idea of weakening magic (and I would go so far as to say the Gods) through disbelief is interesting. Though very few characters in the Warhammer world know the truth (and those that do are often mad and damned), the Gods and their powers are linked to mortals belief in them. It might be possible to combat Chaos simply by negating the emotions that fuel it (easier said than done, I know), so your idea there has some merit if the impact was on divine power and not arcane magic.

Even if the Chaos Gods did not exist (and by extension the mortals' Gods), magic would still exist and could still be drawn apon if a proper conduit existed (case in point the Old Ones and early Slann), it is in essence simply the raw material of the ether made manifest in the material world and it is governed by unique laws. As such the progression of science in this setting would not negate magic but would probably be used in conjuction with it and would lead to a type of stempunk in my opinion.

All and all you have a good adventure there that fits well with minimal modification.

regards,

ET

Yes, Flight of the Dragons, that was it. Man, that was a long time ago.

Thanks everyone for the feedback.

-Tourq

Mad Science fits perfectly into Warhammer. Uncontrolled electricity is no problem either (remember the scene where lightning is needed to bring the monster of Franken^H^H^H^H^H^H^H Wittgenstein alive).

Proving that magic cannot exist, and bring about an age of science, however, sounds rather unlikely. Technology in Warhammer is firmly tied to magic, whether it's the warp gate tech from the Old Ones (or Old Slann, if you prefer the original version like me), or skaven warpstone tech. Even dwarven steam tech needs to involve some magic somewhere; it's way too efficient.

No doubt non-magical technology would be much safer, but it would also be a lot less powerful. And relying on it might even make you slightly less vulnerable to the demonic forces that besiege the world (or more accurately, using magic makes you more vulnerable), but it won't protect you.

Unless... (warning: deep Warhammer cosmology coming up!): aren't warp entities shaped by the beliefs of mortals? Aren't the gods warp entities shaped by concepts that mortals hold dear? Aren't the Chaos gods shaped by mortal vices? Maybe if everybody stopped believing in magic altogether, it could have some impact on the power of Chaos and other gods. I wouldn't bet on it, though.

Yup, they're shaped by it alright.

However, at the first incursion of chaos, there can't have been all that many people there yet to feed the warp it's entities. So the main Ruinous Powers seem to me to be something independant, even if they feed off of it.

Then again, half of what shapes the warp entities, are desires. Those are mostly unconscious or subconscious... So you can't exactly consciously STOP having those.

So in the end the people of the warhammer setting are simply battling themselves, even if there are a few big powers that steer them..

Oh I don't know before the gates fell there would have been a whole world filled with elves, dwarfs, human tribes, ogres and halflings. And each of these races have very strong desires, not to mention any residual emotion created by the world's original lifeforms that were being eradicated by the Old Ones/Slann.

Now this is just a theory but perhaps the "seeding" of the world with races that were evolved using Old One magic/tech and which were linked to the ethereal brought about the instability of the polar gates. It would be a great irony if the experiments of the Old Ones led to their own destruction.

The big four would then be just as dependent on mortals as any other and might be defeated through sheer disbelief. However if these desires were present in the mortal races since their creation it raises the question; How does one fight one's very nature?

A world doomed by its very inhabitants, well at the very least I might modify that theory for one of my "streetside preachers", should be interesting.

Anyway, as already mentioned magic and technology are joined at the hip in the Warhammer World, they are not at odds with one another.

In fact Skaven machinery would not even function if it was not running on condensed magic, in most cases it would simply fall apart. (It does fall apart anyway but without warpstone we would not get the cool green explosions and lightning bolts)

Dwarven machinery is strengthen through the use of "fixed" magic,

Chaos Dwarfs use magic when they bind demons to their machines,

And the only faction that can truely be said to be exploring the sciences; namely the Empire, relies on magic to aid progress.The connection between the enginnering schools, the universities and the magicial orders sits at the heart of the intellectual dynamic of the Empire.

regards,

ET

ErrantThought said:

Don't Eldar in 40K fight it through discipline? Suppose the inhabitants of the Old World would learn that kind of discipline. Wouldn't that weaken the Chaos powers? Of course the Horned Rat relies mostly on Skaven rather than humans, so he wouldn't be as weakened as the others. And with disciplined humans relying more on technology than magic, I'm predicting a very Victorian steampunk future.