I do understand Galdor's frustration. The whole point of WFRP3 is making everything more easily available and ready to play and the current approach to NPCs doesn't feel like that. If, for instance, I want Eduardo Rodriguez to join as an ally in The Gathering Storm and the PCs get to face Izka Madtooth and some beastmen, imagine the amount of flipping pages and lost tracking tokens if I want to run that the way the manual describes.

I don't blame FFG for this, though it can easily be managed if the GM is reasonably well-prepared and makes a few photocopies but indeed, ideally, you don't want to have to photocopy sheets from the book for a game that is based on a philosophy of getting away from clumsy band-aid solutions. The Creature Vault will certainly be a very welcome addition to my GM arsenal!

Ludlov Thadwin of Sevenpiecks said:

Perfect.

I quote every single word of Ludlov!!

Ludlov understood me better than others

Plutonick: the price tag is really Off Topic, sorry.

Anyway: you take DnD as an example, but don't you know that there are A LOT of RPGs that are really cheap?!

"Burning Wheel", for example, costs only 25$ for 2(!) Rulebooks.. and these are really all u need to play!!

http://www.burningempires.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=32&osCsid=adc1ab24b23b045505cbc935057f06f8

"Agon" costs only 20 pounds for a Complete Game!

http://www.agon-rpg.com/

etc, etc..

Galdor said:

Call of cthulhu is one book, and I bet costs less than 30 dollars, what so what? You can't compare any rpg published to WFRP. I tried to compary RPGs that give you the same amount of information. Player rules, GM rules and advice, Setting information.

Bizarrely I have always been put off buying Burning Wheel because it seemed far too expensive. £20 for a couple of very small books with limited illustrations seemed a lot (with extra for Magic Burner and Monster Burner) so I ended up getting Mouse Guard instead which was half the price and based (so I understand) on the same system.

But comparing RPG prices is pretty pointless (there are dozens of free games for starters). The value of a game is how often it is played and if it is enjoyed. I brought Descent a couple of years ago. Perfectly happy when I opened the box and read the rules. However half an hour in to the first game my friends all said "this is rubbish lets play a proper game" by which they meant an RPG. Nothing wrong with the game - its is just I appear to be the only person I know who likes boardgames. In fact that dislike of boardgames really put me off buying WFRP3. I was very worried it would be a boardgame wrapped up as an rpg. Luckily I think it is one of the most storytelling focused games I have ever played. It is certainly flawed (as all games surely are) but in my view it is a flawed gem.

Galdor, I get the impression from your post (aand forgive me if I am wrong) and your lack of willingness to use anything that was not in the core box (such as a pen and paper) thaat you were hoping for an RPG that was as complete as a board game is. I really think that this is impossible. Whlst adding monster cards could have been done it would only leave another area that was lacking. A RPG must fire the imagination of the people that are playing it so they will always need more stuff. Players will instantly want to become, say, Hedge Wizards (example from my campaign) and the fun thing to do is let them, create new stuff. If someone takes drugs then give them an addiction or something - the rules will proably be included in Slaanesh expansion but until then you just make it up. Surely that is what RPG's are all about? And the fans are out there who make it much more easy. I started playing with photoshop to create a ne career card for my Hedge Wizard and then found Strange Eons. Awesome - it saved me hours. I am sure that my house rules will be superseeded by The Witch's Song when it comes out but I will decide which ones are best when they come out.

I am getting a bt of topic here - what I meant to say was: All products have flaws - if you like the game and setting etc then it is never very difficult to overcome the problems. If you don't like the game then no solution will make you happy.

Fluffy, I agree with your description of WFRP3 as a flawed gem, that's exactly the way I see it too. But I also get the feeling that with each new expansion, the game evolves and that gem becomes a bit more polished.

I completely see your point about making your own stuff being part of the fun, but I would still say that a game that offers nicely illustrated career sheets for convenience's sake, should also provide creature & NPC sheets. It's a matter of consistency, I suppose, and I think the real reason why the core set didn't include it was something practical like room/budget/... . I hear they're going to provide this material with the Creature Vault, so as long as that product is consistent with the quality of the game so far, I won't complain.

Ludlov Thadwin of Sevenpiecks said:

That's Captain if you dont mind

I admit that one of my first complaints about the game is that the "everything is on a card" ethos appllied to the players stuff was not carried over to the GM stuff (although I once tried, and regretted, to run an adventure I had written entirely on 5x3 index cards so maybe they had a reason). However to suggest it somehow makes the game unplayable is just petulance.

This game is the only RPG that I get excited about the published expansions so I think that "polishing a flawed gem thing" is very true. I was a little disappointed with the first few expansions but most are looking pretty good.

Hi,

how can I put recharge tokens upon Monsters Action Cards?

Me and my group simply use normal dice (for example, d6 or d10) to track monsters' and players' recharge tokens, fatigue and stress points... Hm, to be honest, we only use tokens in managing range bands and the initiative during encounters.

Just put a book on the table, place the dice upon it and play. This approach is much simplier and rather more convenient than using tokens, IMO.

By the way, I bought this game for ~76$ in Poland, yea

Cheers!

Ludlov Thadwin of Sevenpiecks said:

Perfect (again)!!
I quote (again) every single word of Ludlov!

For Armoks: thank you. Your idea (using Dice instead of tokens) is a nice idea indeed!

But my complain still remains: if the spirit of WHFRP3 is giving all you need to play, even mini-cards to remind Career Special Ability (you should write it on sheet), why it doesn't provide also creature & NPC sheet (as Ludlov and I suggest)?!

If the real reason is something like Budget, well, my complain still remains..

I admit that one of my first complaints about the game is that the "everything is on a card" ethos appllied to the players stuff was not carried over to the GM stuff

For Captain Fluffy: I'm happy that your first complain was identical to mine!!