I've been playing quite a bit of WFRP lately, and one thing that's come to bother me a little is how static Challenge dice are in my games. In reading through the rules, however, I don't think this is the intent at all - Easy (1d) checks for attacks are the *baseline* for difficulty, not the end point. I also don't want to be inconsistent or arbitrary when I set difficulty for players. This in mind, I've come up with a rough system I'll be trying out:

Base difficulty is Easy (1d). Each discrete factor inherent to the action adds a half-die worth of difficulty. These factors might include: maneuvers (beyond the free one), range bands (beyond close), or other non-maneuver weirdness on the player's part. Action card modifiers would be added as normal.

So, a Waywatcher who wishes to run from close to long range then shoot, would have: two spent maneuvers (beyond the first free one), two range bands beyond close (medum and long), for a base difficulty of Difficult (3d). Seems fair for an extremely long shot while on the move. Similarly, a melee attacker who charges from Long to Engaged (four maneuvers, three spent) while leaping over an obstacle, would have a Difficult (3d) basic attack as well.

Any remaining half-dice might be converted to a single Misfortune die if it seems like there's plenty of room for outside factors to influence the result.

It's a loose system, but would provide a bit more structure for players who want to understand why I'm making certain decisions, as well as fitting within the letter and (possible) intent of the combat system as written.

Any thoughts?

I use lots of black dice. (And lots of white dice, for that matter.) Give them out for all sorts of things, per the suggestions in the rules. I really like the way a white and a black don't automatically cancel, they just increase the odds of getting a more extreme roll. It's one of my favorite things about the system.

I've had ranges add to shot difficulty, much as you proposed, but never codified or locked in specific modifiers with lasting precedents. I just wing it as the rules suggest, and it's never been a problem.

One way that I differ from what you're proposing is that I've never given penalty dice for taking multiple manoeuvres, I generally figure the fatigue build-up will be punishing enough eventually. I just let them look like big **** heroes for a round or two before making them pass out. One of my players once had a lot of fun making the others carrying him around after he over-performed at the start of a big scene.

On a related note, I feel like the dice collection I've got has more purple than it needs, but not enough black. So, if need be, I convert them, handing out an extra purple instead of 3 black, or two extra purples instead of 5 black (this is rare).

For the terms of impact on your ability to succeed or fail, 1 purple is almost exactly equal to 2 black.

For terms of the impact on your boon or bane results, 1 purple is roughly equal to 3 black. It would be more like 3 black in this regards if the purple die didn't have a chaos star on it. The chaos star can make it much worse for some actions (and locations), and not quite so bad on others.

It's always so fascinating to me to read your post RB, as you play by the letter of the rules (and apparently the math, lol), and I play very much by the intention of the rule.

Anyway to the topic.

I do see where you are coming from to make combats more dynamic in terms of difficulty. Challenge dice are great and as you say, 1 difficulty (by that same letter) is merely the default. You can raise and lower as you like when put in play during a scene. So yes your maneuver system is a fine idea, so is RB's extensive use of black dice.

However where I differ from the both of you is I feel absolutely no need to justify it to my players ((though I add it in the description such as you swing at him as you rush exhausted through the burning building, trying to escape (2 purple)). I use scenic texture to add emphasis to difficulty. My big baddies always get stepped up a purple or two. I've used it to reflect skill and finding the weak spot. For instance, when fighting a chaos knight the other day, the Rat Catcher - not the most brilliant fighter - was rolling three purples, but the Troll Slayer would roll 1. Of course, the Rat Catcher had plenty else to do, but I used it to add dramatic emphasis to the scene. I've also used it on a troll, who when straight up attacked was 3 purple, but finding it's weaker spots would it to 2 or 3 purple. From there I add black and white dice to adjust for things such as rain, etc. It all depends where I want the emphasis, the conditions of the scene, and the combat's overall purpose. For example, you could use purple to reflect overall weariness, such as the players have gone 24 hours without rest and are onto another fight, difficulty is now 2 purple. For me, it's a question of that emphasis.

If you are going to penalize of maneuvers (again, just fine if a player moves all the way to extreme to rescue his buddy I could totally see a bonus purple dropped into the pool), but make sure you are not penalizing stunting. A good way to manage this is to add purple dice, but white dice as well to the pool. You've increased the difficulty, but not the stunt.

In my games, I find myself short on both purple and black dice all the time, but my players still succeed a lot, and have failed on some drastically important rolls as well. It's a great system in that, all the mechanisms are not flat, they are dynamic capable of changing on the scenic, narrative, character, etc needs. I feel like you should make that clear to the players and push for them to add more interest in the scene as you do as well (as they stunt) and you set difficulty. White dice do counteract purple dice, it's just a question of how many you use.

That's my two cents, but by all means, please do not feel trapped to the world of 1 purple or the world of purple either, blacks are great dice as well. Putting this system into a simple one purple for everything, in my opinion, is really to miss out on a huge element of fundemental design that is in both the spirit and letter of the rules. It's just base attack or base chance is so common in every system that we expect it to play this way in Warhammer, but that is just not the case.

Soap box off.

I throw my hat and GM'ing style in with Commoner. I use the dice to backup my descriptions and to enforce the mood as needed. I don't always justify my dice but if I do take the trouble of describing something they usually come with additional dice. I try not to discourage stunts/cool actions because they are what make gaming standout from I hit you - you hit me. It's the cool stuff that I really love bout this version of Warhammer so I'll do as much as I can to encourage it. If I just wanted 10 rounds of Whack-A-Mole I wouldn't be playing WFRP.

In terms of using extra maneuvers I don't punish them more on top of the fatigue gains, that's enough. Besides the more you punish their inventive/desperate actions the less they are to try which all leads back to playing it safe and boring.

Thanks for the feedback guys!

More than anything else, I think I was going down the path of creating a solution for a problem that isn't there. I'm playing with a great group who loves roleplaying and atmosphere - they're well along the path of adding white and black on their own, or stress and fatigue just because it feels "right". Justification and predictability probably don't need to be created; they're already there, following the story and description as necessary.

So, that in mind, I'll just experiement with more dynamic purples and stick to just fatigue for maneuvers. I really do like to encourage stunts and creative actions, so the concept of setting difficulty then clearly rewarding cool ideas with white dice is quite appealing. I think the only transparency needed is exactly what you've each described: assigning difficulty or fortune/misfortune based in a clear, story driven manner.

Again, thanks!