Well what i really need is for someone to make Daemon Prince stats for me, and if at all possible make those stats customizable, like character stats or daemon host stats. Also some God specific skill, traits, and talents.

Thank you for all the help if u choose to help me,

Misanthrope555

I could be wrong, but there are stats for daemons WP at least, in the daemon weapon section of the Radicals handbook, that would a good indicator of how much of a step up they should be from greater daemons, daemons etc.

Personally I think the best way is very simple. We want this guy to be insanely powerful but we don't want to have to make up a ton of rules for it. My suggestion is take an unbound daemon host from the core book, add all of the demonic talents from the radicals handbook, then a pact boon of your choice to top it off. Build/hand it a suitable demonic weapon and you'll have yourself an easy to make but horrendously powerful antagonist in no time. That's at least the quick and dirty way of making one imo. You also might want to hand it huge size and any other nasty little effects/abilities you can dig up in the books. These things are creatures of the warp that have willingly gone there for power, don't be scared to just hand them any power/ability/talent out of any book that isn't holy based.

Take a look at the Daemon Prince rules in Deathwatch when it comes out?

Just to point out though, unless your PCs are Ascended, they are going to die... a lot.

MILLANDSON said:

I'm nitpicking, as MILLANDSON is more or less correct, but This should probably be amended to: unless you have a primaris Psyker or a Vindicare, your going to die... a lot. None of the other classes are really all that much more powerful (unless you can talk it to death with peer (daemons))

Nah, Stormtroopers, Inquisitors, etc, will generally be able to hold their own, if they have any combat skills at all (which by that level they should do).

i'll try that let u know how it works out, thanx bro

haha yeah dude, i know. but thats the point, im making him to kill all the loyalists / puritans. i want a bad ass way to end this campaign. the inquisitor turns into the daemon prince and hes going 2 kill the "traitors". i want a semi epic fight haha

when i said turn, i ment asended

MILLANDSON said:

In our campaign, at even rank 6 or so, the Guardsman->Sword Radical->Sin Eater whom i personally daemonhosted and exorcised would have no trouble taking on a daemon prince or even greater daemon. His at the time multilaser, now replaced by an assault cannon, was regularly doing several hundred points of damage through sheer amount of Righteous Fury he was rolling.

But then this a cautionary tale as to the power of heavy weaponry. If any of the players have Heavy weapons, then your prince is goin to take a pounding unless he gets the on them.

I would agree with Kasatka.

In my experience, every Big Bad Adversary stats must begin with TB18 or higher. Otherwise that Epic Battle you envisioned may end up pretty quickly, with daemon prince being obliterated by a direct hit of lascannon, roasted by a firestorm or erased from existence by something equally lethal. Then again, a single daemon-killing weapon would nullify the prince's TB, so he must have good combat skills and equipment so that he can dispatch his foes quickly. Daemonic armour with strength 8 or higher, physical Strength value somewhere around 75+, maybe Unnatural, and / or 3-4 sorcerous powers (Warp Corruption and Bolt of Change for DP's of Tzeentch, for example).

As a guideline, you may take a look at the Lord of Change from Ascension. He has decent enough stats.

There are now rules for a fully statted daemon prince in the Deathwatch core rulebook, which is worth getting if for nothing more than the wargear and npc stats.

Reading this thread, I must say I am somewhat baffled by what GM's (and thechnically the system as well) allow for:

If your Acolytes are carrying Multi-Lasers, Lascannons, Assault Cannons and the Emperor knows what, it is not strange at all that they can take on a Daemon Prince. Those weapons are weapons that are found on tanks of the imperial guard, and they are not know for being the "Hammer of the Emperor" for no reason.

Now, I know that the weight of something like an Assault Cannon is a meager 60 kg, and that players like to justify this by saying that this is something that a strong man (SB +TB of 9-10) can both lift and carry according to the tables in DH p.215, but I would assume that this represents them carrying that weight on their back, and not in their arms. Try carrying a couple of 30kg dumbells in your arms for just a little, and then see how mobile you are and how fast your arms tire. Then, add to this that most of these weapons are rapid fire weapon with massive recoils (which means a massive momentum thay anyone firing them would have to fight against and control), which would throw off what little aim one already had faster than you can blink. There is a reason that a TERMINATOR armour wearing SPACE MARINE is the only one in the WH40K setting that is able to carry sucha a dangerous weapon. It is designed to work with such massive armour (not even a Space Marine in normal Power Armour can hope to use something like an Assault Cannon) because you need this kind of mass behind it to keep it steady.

I think the Imperial Guuard Codex is a good indication of what Heavy Weapons a human soldier could conscivably carry in his arms and use. Even Gunnery Sargeant Harker, who is not a normal man by any stretch of the imagination (has a S core of 4, which is the same as that of a Space Marine with Unnatural Strenght (x2)).

People must play the kind of game they like offcourse, but is is not any strange at all that you would have to make up very extraordinary enemies indeed, for the game to be any challenging at all. I personally don't think something like a Proper Daemon Prince (with the ones in Codex Space Marines/Daemons as a guideline), is something that should feature in a DH campaign (fits better in Deathwatch), except perhaps at the highest Ascention tiers.

But, if you have your mind set of ending a campign in this way, then I agree that the Lord of Tzeentch in Ascention is a good guideline. I would make him a a bit less powerfull though, but unless your players are carrying Tank Weaponry, then this should be more than enough in all except the rarest of cases.

Well i personally consider anything other than heavy stubber and heavy flamer to require full deployment and a 2 man team to move/fire it. Mp Lascannon, multimelta, assault cannon,missile launcher, heavy bolter, plasma cannon, multilaser and definitely autocannon- all push the envelope with just their own weight, but the weight of ammo and inability to carry enough ammo to warrant their use (who wants 10 shots from a heavy weapon when you can have hundreds from basic weapons per person).

I'm glad in the Deathwatch core book assault cannon are listed as a mounted weapon, even for space marines. I'd argue that if we use the most recently published material, that most heavy weapons should require a half action to deploy before you can fire them. Maybe reduce this to a free action if you have bulgin biceps (you brute strenght the weapon into position). Also allowing an ammo loader to use his own actions to reload, allowing the gunner to carry on firing for longer.

Nice to see someone sharing my view on the use of the more powerful of heavy wepons (that you can't bascially leave it to weight and bulging biceps alone).

I haven't gotten my copy of Deathwatch yet, but I suspected it had gotten some serious limitations (mounted or Terminator Armour only). If I have to guess, they probably have given it the Storm quality as well (since that didn't exist as IH came out).

But as we are on this thread, does the book contain any stats regarding something as powerful as a Daemon Prince btw?

QUOTE efidm=382358]

Well i personally consider anything other than heavy stubber and heavy flamer to require full deployment and a 2 man team to move/fire it. Mp Lascannon, multimelta, assault cannon,missile launcher, heavy bolter, plasma cannon, multilaser and definitely autocannon- all push the envelope with just their own weight, but the weight of ammo and inability to carry enough ammo to warrant their use (who wants 10 shots from a heavy weapon when you can have hundreds from basic weapons per person).

I'm glad in the Deathwatch core book assault cannon are listed as a mounted weapon, even for space marines. I'd argue that if we use the most recently published material, that most heavy weapons should require a half action to deploy before you can fire them. Maybe reduce this to a free action if you have bulgin biceps (you brute strenght the weapon into position). Also allowing an ammo loader to use his own actions to reload, allowing the gunner to carry on firing for longer.

awesome... looks like im gonna need 2 find $60 and get that book

Deathwatch has stats for chaos marines, daemon princes and marks of chaos. Dark Heresy Ascension has stats for a Lord Of Change. Between these two books and the daemon options listed in the core Dark Heresy book you should be able to figure any daemon out.

Kasatka said:

Especially given how fickle and random the Warp can be... Two dæmons of the same general classification may actually be very different.

-=Brother Praetus=-

Chaplain Uziel said:

Agreed.

However I find the game is scaled that way. As you get higher ranks you get the option to buy talents geared toward the bigger guns and swords (Power, Bolt, Plasma) and therefore it kind of says "Hey, once you get this rank you can use this gun" like a video game where you beat monster #3 and get a power upgrade in the form of a heavy bolter.

I do not like that theme or design. I would rather have talents and skills that increase you proficiency and ability with weapons and more refined rules preventing the above example.

I must admit I would never resort to something as common and base as stats for the final bad guy and the fight against him.

This is the big one. The culmination of all the previous labours. The final stand against the Darkness. It should be memorable and talked about for ages, not just another "Then I did a crit and his femur exploded like a grenade." (though that in itself can be pretty cool)

This is not the time for stats, this is the time for smoke and mirrors, the time for showmanship.

The big bad can not be destroyed by direct attack, the PCs have to do something else, why they can use their high rank to roll a company of Baneblades up and fire at him, and he will still kill 1D8 Baneblades every turn without taking any damage himself.

Big Bad starts tearing up everything around him, collapsing buildings with his warp power, imploding entire sections of the space station they are on or whatever. Nothing stops him.

The PCs have to rush about and destroy his anchor points. The anchor points would ideally consist of all the mcguffins the players have collected for him during the campaign, corrupted by the inquisitor and now used for his final ascension to rightious godhood.

During this hunt for the objects which of course have been placed in auspicious locations around the complex, there will be many challenges. I can immideately think of a few;

• Great tentacles or tendrils of crackling warp power shoot from the inquisitor as he hangs cackling at the ground zero of all this destruction. The PCs have one round to inflict enough damage on this to make it retreat. If they fail, one PC is killed, pulled into the maw of destruction - A burned Fate Point lets him do something "heroic" involving a meltabomb or grenade, perhaps even survive to continue the fight.
• The walls of reality grows thin and horrors from the warp assault the PCs, fighting also breaks out all over as daemons carve into unprepared clerks and security.
• Possessed friends have to be put down or otherwise neutralized.
• The Sins of the Past return to haunt our intrepid heroes. A gigantic blob of warp matter roll out, covered in the weeping faces of every innocent they ever killed. Bad fight, or one of our filthy murderous PCs can give his life to shield the group, fighting this blob and luring it away. He really should die.
• All of your resolvd and unresolved plot points should give you hooks for this. It is the final scene, be great, be dramatic, be merciless.

Hopefully the PCs will send the inquisitor monstrosity screaming back into the warp, and the Imperial Navy will not have to cordon off the entire Calixis sector as a new Eye of Terror appears.

Smoke and mirrors, baby. It is time to be a star.

The best way to deal with a deamon prince or greater deamon is to make sure it doesn't manifest in the first place. Just as with CoC, when the big bad comes you lost.

Space Marines can deal with these nasties and I suppose so can Ascended Acolytes but for everybody else? Running away should be the name of the game.

But I like what the poster above me says. That is so much better then just a bunch of stats.

Mister Zipangu said:

Now I agree with most things that Mister Zipangu and Sister Calldia written about this but I do like to have stats for my Big Bad; I often find as I am creating him I get to know him (or her, or it) better and usually some neat tricks or tactics present themselves. Also it allows me to keep track of how the battle sways back and forth (and stops me getting too carried away...).

But each to their own

DW

so, just thought u guys might like to know wut happened. The inquisitor, Herius, managed to get all but two of the acolytes to help him in his final act to ascend to Daemonhood. He used his resources and rank to get enough forces to attack a "corrupt" hive world. At this point, no1 questioned him. Once Herius was ready, he ordered his forces to secure the largest hive city and force as many of the worlds inhabitants into it as they could. He actually lead the attack, he liked combat to much 2 sit back and watch. Eventually, after much resistance, the Hive city was packed w/ the innocent "corrupted" populance. The acolytes at this point began finding no signs of corruption or rebellion or anything to trigger such an aggresive attack. The PCs who sided w/ Herius didnt really care but the two that were pure, loyalist fags, decided to dig deeper. Eventually they found enough evidance to accuse Herius of being a heretic and they we're about to call for help but the Heretical acolytes stopped them and brought them before Herius, who then revealled his plan for Daemonhood. He was going to overload the boilers that heated the hive through the vicious winter and cook every last man, woman, and child alive in the name of the Dark Gods. Moments later, he created a dark alter and cryied out to the Gods and sacrificed millions of innocent lives in their names. He was then awarded with Daemonhood, Undivided, and fought his way back to his ship. He fought the forces that unwittingly helped him commit the atrocity. Back on his ship, he order the death anyone not dedicated to chaos (roughly 75% of the people on the ship were put to death for being the "real heretics). The loyal accolytes managed to escape (thanks to an ungodly number of 1s they rolled ") and meet Herius on the ship with some guardsmen. The battle eruppted, friend on friend, as the acolytes fought each other. Eventually Herius tore one of the loyalist acolytes in half and consumed him and the other died mercilessly at the hand of his best friend (in game and just normal friend in real life). Herius then took the ship into the warp, where the campaign ended... hopefully to resume w/ the release of Black Crusade

The Characters and players and wut happened to them after entering the warp

Herius - Inquisitor - GM (Me), Undivided Daemon Prince, Fate unknown

Mordeci - Cleric - Ethan - Champion of Nurgle, Fate Unknown

Jastilus - Tech-priest - Dylan - Champion of Tzeentch, Fate Unknown

Scarlett - Adept - Laura - Champion os Slaanesh, Fate Unknown

Haxtes - Guardsmen - Shipman - Champion of Khorne, Fate Unknown

Flavion - Assassin - Brinn (dude) - Undivided, Fate Unknown

Kaltos - Gaurdsmen - David - Died at the hands of Mordeci (scythe run through mid-section)

Lazerus - Cleric - Jack - Died at the hands of Herius (picked up by Herius after having recieved major damage to his legs and body. while reciting the Imperial Creed, he was torn in half by the Daemon Prince and devoured)

so, i thank u all who took the time to read this hope u enjoyed our campaign ending.