I'm a long time Gamesmaster of the original WFRPG and played it since it came out way on back in the Dark Ages and I still run a second edition campaign. i'm reluctant to put all those books aside and start again with this new format that to be honest, i have not heard good things about. i'd like honest oppinions please guys, thank you all.

I'm old school when it comes to roleplaying. Among many other games I played and GMmed 1st and 2nd edition quite extensively and actually quite liked the system, although it was a bit oversimplistic to my groups liking in the end. It got the work done and we had some great adventures in the old world 1st/2nd ed style. Coming from that angle I had my doubts about the 3rd ed, but decided to go for it anyway as I felt that our roleplaying could use "something new". The fact that we've been playing a lot of board games (mostly FFG) helped a lot and we approach the whole thing with healthy "it doesn't matter if the rules are not brilliant, the important thing is we play" -attitude.

So I decided to dive into the deep end and ordered the core box, players kit (we have 4 people in our group), GM's kit and Gathering Storm all in one go.

The quality of all the bit and the writing struck me as great. All the visual help and clever little ideas like the party sheet and the dice really worked for us. Some of the players were really excited and after a couple of gaming nights even the doubting thomas of our group (he doesn't like new things on default) said that the system isn't so bad We had tried D&D 4th ed. earlier and everyone had disliked it. So I had my concerns about the new Warhammer. Luckily instead of copying the D&D FFG has taken another route. Instead of becoming the central point of the game, the cards and the visual thingibingies just added depth and helped to create the immersion instead of being the whole game.

It took us a while to get into the system as there's some fundamental differences in thinking from the previous ones (and to be honest from all the previous RPGs I've played). For example where in 1st and 2nd ed the character had a better chance of missing with his swing (WP 30 is good in the beginning) now it's much more probable that the swing hits (actually in 3rd ed the attack is always a series of swings, so it's more about describing what effect those swings have). This is the FFG approach, where it is more fun to succeed, which actually IS much more enjoyable for all the people involved.

The system isn't for everyone, but once you get your head around it it makes really great roleplaying and storytelling possible without losing in mood at all. It has injected our group with a new energy for roleplaying. Strong support from FFG and active fan base is in my books a huge plus.

If your group is enjoying 2nd ed and is happy with the system, there's no point changing. Don't fix it if it isn't broken, eh!? But if you're like us, kind of in a need for new energy and fresh approach, then there's no better system for that.

Highly recommended.

I didn't own any previous edition of WFRP before, and I am a fan of RPGs and FFG, so I didn't really have a choice at all. The editiing of the book is a little messy, finding a specific rule is tricky, especially in the begining, but you get used to it. That's my only complain. Generally I find this new 'type' of RPGs very promising. I hope it is going to be implemented in other systems/settings as well.

I loved v2. I love v3 slightly more. It is more exciting and interesting, my group finds. The dice mechanic, once you get used to it, is very evocative. The game is very story-driven rather than mechanics driven. My players love having the cards (for actions and talents) in front of them for quick and easy look-up. They also like the Wound cards, and fatigue/stress. In essence, just about everything in the game my players like.

I will agree the books need a few read-throughs to wrap your head around everything, partially because of layout/editing (and partially just because it's so different from v2).

And ... this is not a complaint per se, 3e requires more 'work' and quick-thinking on the part of the GM. 3e is about the story, and lots of the encounters and rules are meant to depend on GM adjustment and decision-making at the time. For example, for each attack the GM gives out misfortune and fortune dice, and difficulty, depending on current circumstances for the attacker (and defender). I like to give out extra fortune dice for players roleplaying or describing their attack. Personally, as a GM, I like the built-in flexibility (and challenge).

Now, that said. Many people find the tokens for tracking things a bit too fiddly. (My group doesn't, but it is a valid point). Much of this can be recorded on paper instead, should you desire. Starting PCs are generally more competent, so be prepared for that. This includes combat, which is meant to be pretty fast and deadly, for both players and NPCs.

As a GM, I will also point out that enemies are meant to be presented in waves. Don't expect a single enemy, or group of enemies, to necessarily make a deadly threat to the PC group. (although, it depends on the group, of course. A group without a dedicated combat PC will have more of a challenge than a group with a dedicated combat PC, etc) Combats, as you'll see from the demo and published adventure, generally give a wave of enemies, a brief rally, then another group of enemies, etc. The point is, generally, to whittle away at the PCs over the course of the adventure so that at the final climactic battle they are heavily wounded and weary to heighten the suspense. Rather than most other games having a nasty dangerous fight, then the PCs heal to full before the next fight, and repeat. So, don't be put off if you run numbers and think that a group of PCs can easily kill monster X. The game isn't designed to pit fresh PCs vs a solo Monster X. The PCs should be worn down by events and encounters prior to monster X, and monster X should have some lesser buddies or means to wear away at the PCs before engaging himself, etc.

Gah, I'm rambling. Happens when you're not feeling well. Anyway, I think it's a great system that works very well. It isn't for everyone, though. There's an official demo event this weekend called "Journey to Black Fire Pass." I recommend you see if a store near you is running it, and then suggest you stop by to either play or watch.

Adding my opinion that WFRP 3rd Edition is a fine and working system. I agree that it´s certainly not for everyone, but me and my friends enjoy it quite alot. I also agree about the tokens. They may sometimes just take up space on the table, but that´s so small that i don´t even want to complain about it. I´m new to being a GM and all, but this system is really nice for newbies as well. The possibilities for storytelling are endless and the new dice system compliments that aspect greatly. As for the cards, well, my opinion is that they beat the hell out of always having to look for a certain paragraph or whatever tidbid information you might need on a given situation. It´s a really smooth and easy to run-system all in all.

I also like WHFRP3 very much! Actually, it's the system I had most fun with, all considered.

I played all versions of D&D and went to D&D 4 a year ago and had a need for something less rigid, more narrativist than rule heavy. I had enough for my money with WHFRP3! There's some details I would like being different, more simple and straightforward, but then the system can be adjusted very easely without breaking the game in itself.

However, keep in mind that this forum is the official WHFRP3 forum. You'll find a majority of WHFRP3 lovers, so expect mostly good critiques. Those who don't like the game don't hang around here (for the majority, at least).

I too played first edition back when it first came out, and I can remember the way the setting felt so different and gritty and well considered compared to some of the other mostly high fantasy settings and systems that were around at the time.

I remember the way I thought the career system was a revelation and thinking the way all the skills could be combined in to help with the set of standard tests a concept that was ahead of its time.

When 2nd edition came along, some bits of the setting I liked less (I really liked 1st edition Brettonia, but that is now lost to WFRP history unfortunately), and the rules seemed "OK" but not a massive improvement over 1st ed, some bits were badly needed updates (magic and the like) but some seemed a bit too ordered compared to the somewhat chaotic nature of V1 (I initially disliked the standardisation of skills and talents compared to 1st ed). But it was WFRP and so deep down i still liked it and loved the way it expanded officially on the setting after so long.

Then V3 came along and from the initial release information and designer diaries, i had my doubts. I was concerned the careers would be too few and standardised, that the monster rules, especially henchmen were too gamey and unrealistic, and that everything would be over simplified and broken down and standardised even more so than V2.

The rules for the defence cards seemed interesting though and I was intrigued by the abstract distances, which I had seen used previously in games like Grimm and Trail of Cthulhu, and really liked the concept of a single dice pool resolution.

Them i bought it and went through the concepts behind the game in fine detail and got that feeling of complete newness and excitement i got back when 1st edition first came out. The game is very different from V1/V2 mechanic wise, but I think the really help to tell story driven adventures rather than run mechanic driven games. I think FFGs way of releasing expansions and their general marketng strategy is spot on and I am really genuinely excited by the system; once you are into it's mind set (and that for an experienced GM can be the hardest thing to overcome), the game is a dream to referee, not having to refer to a rule book once in an entire session is a real breath of fresh air, and all the fiddly bits, once you get you head around when and just as importantly, when not to use them really do enhance the whole gaming experience.

Like others have said though, it isn't everyone's cup of tea, and it seems players of a more simulationist nature or that want lots and lots of crunch in their system seem to find WFRP V3 harder to pick up, but for those who enjoy more story driven games it seems to be really hitting home.

Go on take the plunge, come on in, the water's lovely (but don't drink it, as its laced with Schlaf...)

The rules certainly have changed. It's wierd not having the "RoleMaster" sets of tables and modifiers..that's what's something to get used to.

Gone are the tables of modifiers.

Gone is the cartography of movement.

Gone is the simplicity of a % system, but the addition of a really neat dice mechanic.

Added are additional character "abilities"

Added are a couple more things to work with (fatigue, stress, and recklessness of actions)

Same are the wounds

Same is the magic

Same are the races (oh c'mon, no halflings doesn't mean the end of the world..oh wait, there is already a fan version by yours truly).

Same are the skills

Same are the abilities

Same is damage soak

Same is the world background (if you were expecting a reprint of all of your 2e world background, you're not going to get it)

New is a pretty box

There is LESS boardgamishness than 2e..as there is no battlemat, but more cardplay (if you took your 2e actions and put them on cards instead of looking them up in the book)

Combined are a lot of careers (if you're expecting a reprint of the Career Compendium, you're obviously not going to get it). Artwork is the same.

New is it's hard to pirate

New is it's in-print...

Try out the Demo scenario download to learn the game.

Jay H

Emirikol said:

And that's the reason why the fiddly bits & cards are here to stay

Thank you one and all. Some very informative and helpful reviews. More so than reaing the shops and online reviews, after all their aim is to sell! Thanks again, not sure I'll get it, as my lot are all happy with the 2nd edition.

No problem. I'll stress again that you really should try it. I know my group was plenty happy with 2nd as well, but once we tried 3rd we liked it better. There have been other people who didn't like it enough to give up 2nd, especially since 2nd has a plethora of material out for it while 3rd is still very new, so it does depend.

I realize that the Core Set is expensive for a 'maybe' purchase, so I would see if there is anyone at your FLGS who has it and can run a demo. I think it really takes actually playing this edition to get a feel for how it works and how you might like it.

As a group that never played 1st or 2nd edition Warhammer and found 4e D&D too complicated fighty, the reactions we've had so far are:

- nice to play a game with rules on cards facing you etc. (as GM I'm really the only one who has read the rules, though no one is playing a spellcaster)

- nice that social and combat use same system

- dice system interesting (players not really getting hang yet of using it descriptively)

- the advance a session aspect is very popular

I have substituted other more distinctive tokens for the punchboard ones for fatigue and stress and use others for wounds with cards only for criticals.

Rob

Personally, I am a HUGE fan of what FFG has designed with this 3rd edition of WHFRP. I owned the 1st ed books but never had a group to play it with. I loved the idea of careers instead of classes and the darker, grittier system of gameplay. Over my 3 decades of gaming I have come to distinctly dislike class/level systems and have been hoping for a good quality alternative for fantasy gaming.

As information emerged as to the design concepts of this new system, I became quite excited. It has proven to be most everything I have wanted out of a RPG system. My gaming group plays everything from D&D to World of Darkness and as a group, story always trumps rules in our methodology. We have found that WHFRP's new system allows characters the freedom to be "people" with far more complex motivations and abilities that promote describing what the PC is attempting to accomplish rather than looking up rules to see if they have the capacity to attempt something. Every PC can attempt most any idea a player will come up with and we get much delight in seeing the scholar try to beat away ankle-biting goblins with a heavy book to nearly as much affect as the skilled swordsman character.

The dice pool system is tremendously flexible and only takes new RPG players a session or so to become skilled with and experienced players a few rounds. We like using the cards which keeps using books pretty much gone from our game sessions and the fiddly-bits have been openly embraced by my group.

FFG has proven to provide some very good writing for the published adventures so far and I get piddle-my-pants eager to get my hands on each new WHFRP product they put out. Despite the expense, I am looking forward to having the hardcover rule books so that players can browse through available careers and skills and talents without having to pass around stacks of cards and mess with my organizational system of storing them. These books will also make it easier for new players to get an overview of all their options in one easy guide.

As to the setting, I was barely familiar with Warhammer (despite owning the 1st ed rule book) but I have come to appreciate the setting as I learn about it through the 3rd edition books. I have even gone so far as to buy some of the novels to get a better grasp on the world (and I would recommend The Blackhearts Omnibus). This system is so exciting and flexible for me that I am even seriously tempted to run adventures of some of my favorite D&D settings (Dragonlance and Pathfider Adventure Paths) using this system since neither my group nor I are overly tied to the Warhammer setting.

I would strongly recommend this system to any group who enjoys storytelling of hack and slash and for those who find it thrilling to play character types other than fantasy archetypes of "burly warrior", "powerful spellcaster" and "crafty rogue" (any of which are, of course, options available with this system as well).

Just my two cents...

I played D&D when I was 9 maybe until I was 12, this was back in the late 80's early 90's. In high school I dabbled a bit with Rifts and other Paladium games...but not too heavily. I then got into miniature gaming and have been obsessed with the 40K and Warhammer Fantasy games ever since.

I'm also big into board games and love the quality that FFG has a reputation for.

I got into the 3rd ed. WFRP with some reluctance, as I tried a D&D game a couple years back and it just felt awkward. But a friend of mine got the core set and offered to GM. It sort of seemed clunky to me at first, but it really acted as a gateway for me to get back into RPGs...The mechanics with the dice are revolutionary, and provide a nice baseline for narrative during an action or skill check. The action cards/talent cards/etc. really make the game (for me) feel like a boardgame (which I am a big fan of) and provide quick reference for GM and player alike so they don't have to interrupt the story telling to look up rules etc.

But, for those Hard Core RPG purists that tackle role-playing with nothing but a pencil, paper, a couple of dice and their imagination...FFG has announced Hardback books for WFRP 3rd that will include rules (and dice tables) that allow for gameplay without all the 'bits and bobs' that I couldn't imagine playing without.

I posted a quick power review on rpggeek a while ago perhaps you'll find it usefull: Short Power Review