There seems to be a mistake regarding the genealogy of Andreas von Bruner, the guy who was swallowed by the painting.

On page 71 of the ToA it says that: “Andreas was the second son of a cousin of Graf Sigismund, patriarch of the powerful von Jungfreud family.”

Then on the next page it says: “When he [Gregor Piersson] encountered Andreas von Bruner, Lord Heissman’s eldest son, he devised a plan for revenge.“

On the page after that (73) it says: “Whilst Lord Heissmann is not too concerned with the fact that a wastrel relative has vanished, other members of the family might still be keen to find out where Andreas went.”

Since it seems that the “Edge of Night” module will keep us involved with these families, I would like to get this straight, so that I can plant some seeds to later adventures involving these noble families in an appropriate way and without to muss fuss later on, when I adapt to the content of Edge of Night. What we know from the designer’s diary ( www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_news.asp ) is that Graf Sigismund’s full name is Graf Sigismund von Jungfreud and that he, until recently, was the Lord who presided over Übersreik, which is now a free town.

So the questions are:

1. Is Andreas a first or a second son?
2. Is he really the son of Lord Heissmann? (Shouldn’t Heissmann then care a bit more about him? Or who else is the father?)
3. Is Lord Heissmann a cousin of Graf Sigismund von Jungfreud?
4. Is Lord Heissman’s full name then Heissmann von Bruner? (In German, Heissmann sounds more like a last name, therefore I am a bit confused about this.)

I guess it is likely that the correct answer to questions 3-4 is “yes”. But it would be nice to be sure.

(I don’t know if any of the designers/writers post here in this forum – I guess they would be the only ones who can really answer these questions. How should I proceed if I want to ask them directly?)

Andreas von Bruner, I would say, is the second son of Lord Heissman von Bruner, who is a cousin of Graf Sigismund von Jungfreud.

You could have him being the eldest son - but I'd say the spare would be treated in such a manner whilst the heir would not - so I'd ignore the mention of him as eldest son in preference to the mention of him as the second son.

That's just my feeling - YMMV.

Dave Allen said:

Yes, that seems like a possibility – the second son who was spoiled and not useful anyway, so loosing him altogether is not such a big deal. Now, since the father obviously doesn't care much, what does the mother and what do other siblings think about that… *ponders several tempting options of throwing out story hooks*

There is a way to make these contradictory facts work. Somewhat. Lord Heismann would be married to a cousin of Graf Sigismund, and that unnamed cousin had a sun from a previous marriage (presumably her first husband died).

It's still a bit odd that Lord Heismann would consider his own eldest son a "wastrel relative", but such harsh fathers are not unheard of.

Even so, an official family tree is starting to become useful here. I certainly hope the people at FFG have created one.

Anyone asked FFG for an official response?

should be easy to get this added to the FAQ...

Nope, at least I didn’t – what is the best route to take for these kinds of requests?

probably using the rules question link right at the very bottom of the forum.

Jay is normally pretty good at getting a response back to questions, at least he has always answered mine promptly in the past...

pumpkin said:

Ah! Never noticed that link. Question has been submitted – I’ll post again in this thread if I get an answer!

When I first read EfaE I was confused by those three quotes as well. I then decided that the quotes were accurate and that there was some unspoken history there. Andreas WAS Heissman's second son, and all was well between Andreas and his father. Then he was the eldest son after a hunting "accident" or some such took the life of Heissman's first born (murder). Then he was naught but a wastrel relative after his questionable behavior forced his seclusion at Grunwald Lodge. The order of the statements seem to chronologically reveal the history of Andreas von Bruner if you read between the lines. Or it could all be an editing mistake. Who knows.

-Thorvid

I got a very nice and speedy reply from Jay when I contacted him through the Rules Questions link.

First, he encourages us to take up Dave Allen’s interpretation – but he also says that we should maybe just read this as an expression of the faults of people as they are (in Warhammer and in Real Life, I guess ): often, nobody really knows what is going on and everyone will tell you a different story about Andreas von Bruner (or is that really his name?) In that regard, Thorvid’s interpretation is also very well put, I would say.

Dave Allen FTW!!

Ta - I think that is the easiest way to sort it. However both MCV and Thorvid mention some neat ways of making it a more complex and convoluted manner, and given the various ways in which these noble families can be tied (with a bit too much closeness for comfort in some cases) taking this as a cue to question Andreas' legitimacy and/or status as a second son due to a step sibling is fair enough.

As to whether Andreas has been treated in a callous manner by being packed off to manage Grunewald Lodge, I would certainly agree on a personal level (leaving aside the matter that he was a chaos worshipping scumbag for the moment). However as far as I am aware it wasn't unknown for aristocratic families to effectively hide their more embarrassing relatives from public sight with such a degree of disregard, if not worse. Even as late as the 20th century George V effectively confined his son John to house arrest because of embarrasment regarding the boy's epilepsy and learning difficulties. In a sense Andreas' exile to Grunewald isn't as harsh as that - it wasn't really a punitive or final action, but done in the hope that a spell in the country would straighten the boy out. Of course it didn't work out that way...

It could certainly be that certain members of the von Bruner family are highly concerned about Andreas' disappearance, and might be very keen to talk to the PCs in the vain hope of learning some comforting news about what became of him. And if the PCs were so insensitive to such nobles as to tell them outright that their son/brother/cousin/whatever indulged himself in depraved daemon worship they might make themselves distinctly unpopular.