I suppose this question was always valid, although it seems starting this particular new wave it becomes more acute, mostly because...

1) Limited availability of the expansion packs

2) The Jedi never flew entire squadrons of Delta-7s, the way the miniature stand looks

3) This is a fairly uncommon situation of a single expansion pack containing far more base plates than you need for the matching miniatures in the same expansion (4x Delta-7 base plates)

Particularly #2 makes me think - I mean, during the Clone Wars, it was basically always one Jedi (Padawan, Knight, or Master) leading a group of Clones operating as a unit. And if you arrange the minis on the stand that way...well, you've suddenly got PLENTY minis to use all the Jedi base plates the expansion ships with.

IE., with a single 'Republic Squadrons' expansion, you can do this...

But...my Lord, is that... legal?

It’s a good question. I wouldn’t be surprised if my interpretation is wrong, but I always figured you’re playing against the cardboard, not the plastic miniature. You should be able to play without ships so long as you have the bases, right? But again, whether tournament rules agree with me or not, I don’t know.

For what it’s worth, I’ve done similar: my Vader squadron has one TIE Advanced flanked by two TIE/LNs.

5 minutes ago, Rmcarrier1 said:

For what it’s worth, I’ve done similar: my Vader squadron has one TIE Advanced flanked by two TIE/LNs.

Yup, I've seen that done, before - even at tournaments, actually. But as mentioned in the preface and point #3 - situation feels different this time. Looking at the TIE Advanced...on release, it only HAD a single 'named' pilot and two base plates. It wasn't until Corellian Conflict that you started having more base plates than you needed for the number of miniatures you had; where it might be possible to split the models up a bit to get some more squadrons.

Even so (point #2) - Vader's situation was unique in THAT period, in that he had wingmen flying different fighters than he was as seen on-screen. NORMALLY the various TIEs, or Rebel fighters, did indeed fly as unified 'squadrons' (Vader excepted).

That's definitely not true of the relationship of the Jedi to Clone pilots during the Clone Wars. And we've obviously got far more (twice as much) cardboard than we need. So...opens up some possibilities, I think?

The tournament regulations say this:

• Players may paint their ship models. They cannot modify a ship model in any way that would create confusion about which ship the model represents.

And this:

• Players cannot modify ship or squadron bases to alter their size or shape. They may add weight to a ship or squadron base if it does not alter the shape of the base. Ship fins or pegs (including the connecting pegs affixed to ship models) may be modified or replaced with a different connecting method.
• Cards must remain unaltered, though they may be sleeved for protection. Sleeves for damage cards must be identical and unaltered.

The important questions are: “Doy you have the appropriate cards and ship/squadron tokens?” And “Is it easily recognizable what this ship is supposed to be?” If the answer to both is “yes” you should be ok. Someone may ask you to remove the V19’s from the stands because it could cause confusion, but a single Delta-7 on a stand should be fine. As always, it’s ultimately up to the judge.

Personally, I would say if you have 4 cardboard bases, you can run 4 Delta-7’s.

I completely agree with your points, particularly number two.

Two things

- in general, noone serious will ever have a real issue with this, but there is always a risk you will encounter some sanctimonious git

- i had a similar idea but in this case went away from it because the two 'wingmen' are a totally different thing to the jedis fighter. Like, two speed 2, 7 hull arc170s dont fit with a 4 hull speed 4 plo koon. I just did the generic jedi wingmen with a very basic red and white scheme.

5 minutes ago, Ophion said:

... because the two 'wingmen' are a totally different thing to the jedis fighter. Like, two speed 2, 7 hull arc170s dont fit with a 4 hull speed 4 plo koon...

Well, I mean...

• 7 hull for an ARC-170 entire squad. Typically 12 fighters. Obviously Plo Koon has much fewer flying alongside his Delta-7, so 4 total hull for the group is fine.
• He's also using the Force to make them fly fast enough to keep up with him? 😝

I honestly don't have any issues with single models on a single peg for ace squadrons. It helps them stand out a bit and it's clear what's going on. When you have ace squadrons where one model is being escorted by other models and there's more than one such group on the table , then it gets confusing. When it's "oh this TIE Advanced with two TIE Fighter wingmen is Darth Vader but otherwise everything's what it's supposed to be" that's no biggie. When it's "there are four Jedi aces flying around but you might lose track of which is which and where they are as they're hanging out with non-Delta squads" then I get a lot more iffy.

In short, I'd definitely recommending just putting a single Delta on a single peg (painting also encouraged but not mandatory). I believe you can buy the pegs from Mels Minis online.

1 hour ago, bkcammack said:

Someone may ask you to remove the V19’s from the stands because it could cause confusion, but a single Delta-7 on a stand should be fine. As always, it’s ultimately up to the judge.

This right here is what it boils down to. You have the Delta-7, you have the cardboard. The one real risk is including clone wingmen.

The only full Delta-7 squad I plan to field is Ashoka, because it’s a good way to get Obi-Wan and Anakin’s fighters thrown into the mix.

Since i didn't even get all the parts needed to build all my squads normally, i had no choice and placed named my Delta-7 Pilots on single fighter pegs. If someone askes, i can simply put the plastic bag with the spare ones next to the base...

3 hours ago, Ophion said:

- in general, noone serious will ever have a real issue with this, but there is always a risk you will encounter some sanctimonious git

Woah, dude, gotta take issue with your attitude there. Cos someone doesn't share your view they're a sanctimonious git?

Here's my problem with those mini setups: it's not obvious from looking whether that's a squadron of Torrents or of Deltas (and it would be even worse if there were full squadrons of Torrents in the same list). Yeah it's clear when you've been told and after you think about it for a second, but when you have to think about it it messes with your intuitive head-map of the game. That's why we have rules like " They cannot modify a ship model in any way that would create confusion about which ship the model represents. " T here's room for nuance here which your attitude denies.

Clearly this would not be tournament legal, that's cut and dry in the rules. Whether casual, friendly players would take issue with it is a different matter. Personally I would never aks you to change it, and I really like how it looks, but it would put me off my game. I suppose how you feel about that is up to you.

I've never encountered anyone who griped about the fighter stands having mixed models within reason. Vader+TIE/ln stands I've seen on tables forever. I've even seen people who put a small base stand with a fighter tree and jam a GR75 and some X-wing's on it to make their flotillas. Technically it is against the rules. But technically so long as nobody is out to be TFG it doesn't matter.

Just make sure your opponent knows. I get thrown off easily myself, but a simple thing like the 'leader' being escorted doesn't bother me. It actually draws my attention to which one is the special one. You could do one stand of Knights with all 3 Aethersprite, one stand of Plo with one Sprite and two v19, and then one solo peg Sprite for Ashoka and I could easily know what I'm looking at.

I dunno why you'd want to mix them with Torrents anyway. Y-Wings are clearly the way to go.

The new Rules Reference does have an entry on "irregular squadrons," which wasn't in the old one.

IRREGULAR SQUADRON
Some squadrons are irregular squadrons. Squadrons of this type feature
a single plastic fighter model (instead of three). Despite this difference
in appearance, irregular squadrons follow all of the rules for normal
squadrons.
• When an effect refers to an irregular squadron,it means a squadron
that is physically represented by a model on a single peg (instead of a
tree peg). For example, this includes squadrons such as YT-2400’s or
VT-49 Decimators, not A-wings or TIE Interceptors.

I don't think there are currently any effects in the game that actually refer to them, but it seems likely that there will be, given how it's specifically defined. I could see the above suggestion of a single Delta-7 on a stand running afoul of this, if a player is using an effect that cares about irregular squadrons and a regular squadron is represented irregularly.

16 minutes ago, Vlad3theImpaler said:

The new Rules Reference does have an entry on "irregular squadrons," which wasn't in the old one.

IRREGULAR SQUADRON
Some squadrons are irregular squadrons. Squadrons of this type feature
a single plastic fighter model (instead of three). Despite this difference
in appearance, irregular squadrons follow all of the rules for normal
squadrons.
• When an effect refers to an irregular squadron,it means a squadron
that is physically represented by a model on a single peg (instead of a
tree peg). For example, this includes squadrons such as YT-2400’s or
VT-49 Decimators, not A-wings or TIE Interceptors.

I don't think there are currently any effects in the game that actually refer to them, but it seems likely that there will be, given how it's specifically defined. I could see the above suggestion of a single Delta-7 on a stand running afoul of this, if a player is using an effect that cares about irregular squadrons and a regular squadron is represented irregularly.

2 of the RitR special objectives refer to them, but that's something to deal with before models hit the table.

I honestly don't see it becoming an issue, but if it is then it's just something one will have plenty of advance notice to deal with.

Especially on these boards, where we get a crumb and fill 8 pages with rants about formatting speculation.

If someone REALLY insits, i'll change my one Ahsoka to the regular three Ahsokas. Only for them to not be mistaken for a YT-2400 or whatever. Most of the time, customized Squadrons are also painted. So even in the case of the torrents you should be capable to see and identify the Delta-7 (hopefully with an appropriate pattern) right away.

Sometimes it even helps, to customize. My Jendon has got 2 Ties with him. that way he'll always stand out if i bring a second lambda shuttle with him.

This is a game. Just talk to eachother and have a good time.

It's kinda a shame they didn't make the Jedi squadrons one Jedi+multiple clones officially. I suppose there'd have been too many possible combos...

While I don't have an issue with Vader escorted by a pair of TIE Fighters, I think that's partially because the Advanced is larger. In this image the V-19s overwhelm the Jedi they're escorting. It doesn't help that Aethersprites are so tiny. In a tournament I'd be either constantly asking which squad was which, or just request a model change.

10 hours ago, Snipafist said:

I honestly don't have any issues with single models on a single peg for ace squadrons. It helps them stand out a bit and it's clear what's going on. When you have ace squadrons where one model is being escorted by other models and there's more than one such group on the table , then it gets confusing. When it's "oh this TIE Advanced with two TIE Fighter wingmen is Darth Vader but otherwise everything's what it's supposed to be" that's no biggie. When it's "there are four Jedi aces flying around but you might lose track of which is which and where they are as they're hanging out with non-Delta squads" then I get a lot more iffy.

In short, I'd definitely recommending just putting a single Delta on a single peg (painting also encouraged but not mandatory). I believe you can buy the pegs from Mels Minis online.

This is where I'm at with this. One or two of these would be fine. Four becomes a bit more problematic particularly if there are also regular V-19 squadrons on the board. I'll give a mouse a cookie but he'd better not push it and ask for a glass of milk. It would be less troubling if each ace and accompanying torrents had a coordinated/matching paint scheme.

7 hours ago, mazz0 said:

Here's my problem with those mini setups: it's not obvious from looking whether that's a squadron of Torrents or of Deltas (and it would be even worse if there were full squadrons of Torrents in the same list).

I mean...look at the base plate? Isn't that what we play the game through, anyway? The models are only ever decorative in this game.

The base plate very clearly shows these to be Delta-7s.

1 hour ago, xanderf said:

I mean...look at the base plate? Isn't that what we play the game through, anyway? The models are only ever decorative in this game.

The base plate very clearly shows these to be Delta-7s.

My thoughts exactly. Just one man's two cents, though.

1 hour ago, xanderf said:

I mean...look at the base plate? Isn't that what we play the game through, anyway? The models are only ever decorative in this game.

The base plate very clearly shows these to be Delta-7s.

To be honest I can‘t identify a squadron by the small and often obscured token. I really need the small fighter minis. The better if they are painted minis. And that‘s also true for my own squads. For that I identify my own aces through additional ID-tokens with a colored dot on them responding a matching dot at the squadron card. (I do the same with my ships.)

I wouldn‘t have a problem with an opponent mixing squadron minis or modifying pegs, as long as I would be able to identify the different squadrons without having to look at the small squadron tokens. The better you can differ between squadrons the easier to play the game.

I have played many games and proxies are not always well liked, that said if you address your opponent before the game and detail what is what you are probably going to be fine.

I played a game where an opponent had a model on his peg, and for the most part it looked fine and I played against it accordingly. So when he picked up a few extra dice and pointed out that his model was, as shown on the base something else I was not all that impressed.

I think to some extent this is somewhat a grey area, because it ultimately will be or not be an issue based on previous experience. If you had a bad experience then you may well be somewhat hard against the idea.

11 hours ago, xanderf said:

I mean...look at the base plate? Isn't that what we play the game through, anyway? The models are only ever decorative in this game.

The base plate very clearly shows these to be Delta-7s.

And the rules very clearly state otherwise. So if you are going to take an uncompromising stance, I am going to call the TO.

Your opponent has never seen your list before. You have to try and make it obvious what they are facing.

17 minutes ago, Ginkapo said:

And the rules very clearly state otherwise. So if you are going to take an uncompromising stance, I am going to call the TO.

Your opponent has never seen your list before. You have to try and make it obvious what they are facing.

Do you have a rule more clear that you are referring to, beyond " They cannot modify a ship model in any way that would create confusion about which ship the model represents. "?

Because no ship models are being modified, here. It's a Delta-7 base, Delta-7 card, Delta-7 on the list provided to my opponent, and a Delta-7 on the stand (with some decorative elements alongside).

What rule is being violated? That was the question in my OP - and nobody has come up with one, yet.