I give up. I admit. I have no idea what I'm doing.

So among my friend-group who plays there's only one person I can never seem to even come close to beating.

They typically throw a bunch of y-wings with a nasty assortment of synchronized console, dorsal turrets, and proton torpedoes.

and for the life of me I just cannot figure out how to beat him. I start firing away and chipping away, and maybe start to get half on some y-yings for a grand ~20 points a piece, by the time that some of my ships start to go down from a barrage of lock-modded attacks and torpedoes.

What do I do? I'm flying CIS. I was going to try to use a Darth/Jango combo that's been working decently well for me. Any other suggestions?

I hate the Republic Y-wing possibly more than any other ship in the game. They simply refuse to die. Slap a dorsal turret on it and it's a ship with 180 arc that refuses to die. When you kill one, you realize you've wasted 30 minutes killing 31 points. Then by the time you finish killing one, Anakin or whatever Jedi they are paired with is running free behind you and taking your ships apart. Best solution I have found is to to try and get half points on one, and then run away. Try and win 16-0.

In short, the Republic is just the worst.

Thank you for coming to my Ted talk.

Seriously though, if someone else has solutions for beating the Republic y-wing, I'm also all ears.

I play Republic, so I might have some insight into this (but I don't play Y-Wings so also take all of this with a grain of salt)

One of the main people I play against plays CIS, and what always works for him when he plays against me is a swarm. Multiple times he's tried to use a few beefed up guys, but that hasn't worked very well. CIS is very good at swarming. Try not to sink too many points into one ship, and make it so that losing any one or two ships isn't a huge deal. Assume that some of your vultures are going to die at some point and prepare for that.

Another thing (and this goes for swarms in general) is to try to focus your fire on one or two ships at a time. Point all your ships at one guy, and you'll probably be able to get it off the board in a turn or two.

Also make use of Networked Calculations and Kraken. I don't know if you're using vultures, but hoarding and sharing calculates is one of the big parts of flying vultures. Always default to a calculate action. You'll find that calculates can do a lot more than you might initially think, and they have been a big source of power for my CIS friend.

I hope this helped a little bit!

@player655164

Just from what you've described so far, the first thing I could say is you may be needing to focus your fire more. Getting ships to half is great, but leaving them there is bad. Ys don't have a lot of speed so they are pretty easy to keep pace with once your aware of their path. After that there is a certain amount of attrition you will have to deal with. If Darth/Jango is your list (just two ship? I'm not familiar with this one) you may need to bulk up a bit more. Just Darth and some dudes might get you father.

Pitch one (196/200)
==================
Sith Infiltrator: Darth Maul (65 + 9)
+ Hate (9)
Belbullab-22: Skakoan Ace (38)

Belbullab-22: Skakoan Ace (38)

Vulture Fighter: Precise Hunter (23)

Vulture Fighter: Precise Hunter (23)

Or even Jango and some dudes might get you somewhere. More attacks are great to have. Diversify the investments and all that.

Generally, you want to use the obstacles in your favor, via setup and during the game itself.

Force the Y-Wings to fly into the rocks during the game, and setup rocks so that they can't bank into the center of the board. You want to be the one able to bank into the rocks, because that opens up your option to bank in, attack, then dip out while they either fly over rocks or have to wait another turn to be able to turn past rocks.

Y-Wings are hot garbage at flying in rocks, so once you get them in them, it becomes a lot harder for them to stay attacking.

Finally, always make sure that you are not in the forward arc. You would much rather be in the turret arc with no shots instead of the forward arc with shots, unless you have a really good chance of initiative killing the Y-Wing.

19 minutes ago, ForceSensitive said:

Sith Infiltrator: Darth Maul (65 + 9)
+ Hate (9)
Belbullab-22: Skakoan Ace (38)

Belbullab-22: Skakoan Ace (38)

Vulture Fighter: Precise Hunter (23)

Vulture Fighter: Precise Hunter (23)

I dunno, I feel like maybe you can drop one Bulbullab and give the vultures grappling struts and give the remaining Belbullab Kraken. Then you'll still have room for one more precise hunter.

Vulture -class Droid Fighter - •••Precise Hunter - 24
•••Precise Hunter - Pinpoint Protocols (23)
Grappling Struts (Open) (1)

Vulture -class Droid Fighter - •••Precise Hunter - 24
•••Precise Hunter - Pinpoint Protocols (23)
Grappling Struts (Open) (1)

Vulture -class Droid Fighter - •••Precise Hunter - 24
•••Precise Hunter - Pinpoint Protocols (23)
Grappling Struts (Open) (1)

Sith Infiltrator - •Darth Maul - 74
•Darth Maul - Sith Assassin (65)
Hate (9)

Belbullab-22 Starfighter - Skakoan Ace - 53
Skakoan Ace - (38)
Impervium Plating (4)
•Kraken (11)

Total: 199

View in the X-Wing Squad Builder

Instead of adding a third Vulture, you could also turn the Skakoan Ace into being Wat Tambor or General Grievous. Impervium plating can be anything, I just put it on there because there were some points left to spend.

That sounds fine to me. I don't usually build in cis, but that looks better from here. CiS the one faction I don't have an ungodly account of plastic for 😅

6 minutes ago, ForceSensitive said:

That sounds fine to me. I don't usually build in cis, but that looks better from here. CiS the one faction I don't have an ungodly account of plastic for 😅

Same. It's so expensive to buy into.

2 squad packs, 2-3 vulture droids, 3 Tris (to get enough Fearsome Predators), 1 Firespray, 2 HMPs, 2-3 Hyenas, 1 Nantex, and 1 Infiltrator just to be able to field lists with good varieties. That's almost 400 before tax, and I'm not even sure of how competitive your lists would be. GAR only really needs about 250-300 to make decently competitive lists, for instance.

You can get into either rep/cis faction for like 150 as far as I'm concerned. Two starters, two blisters of whatever, you should be off to the races. I've spent well more than 400 on republic as it is sad to say hehehe *heavy sigh* 🙄 😅 I mostly just didn't have time to bother to try. And considering the size of my collection I have plenty to work through anyway. That's the only real reason

Republic beef dies to being flanked. Yes, they have second arcs, but if they're rotating, they're not Focusing or TLing. If they can't launch torps, they're wasted points.

Try and bring Jango and a flanking group. Fly them hammer and anvil, forcing them to turn towards one. While bombs are a problem, you can engage from beyond bomb range, while still on a flank.

Alternatively, use Traj Sim hyenas. Y Wings are not agile enough to dodge flung bombs, which means that you should be able to get some good hits in. You can even play the Bomb Turret (Hyena, Traj Sim, Struts, Bomb of choice, reload every turn while in a rock)

11 minutes ago, Kreen said:

Republic beef dies to being flanked

In my experience, that hasn't ever really happened, although my opponent hasn't really tried it. I usually lose when jousting

ywings with dorsel are two dice. Unless its Anakin or Oddball, they are also low initiative, so they should not be locking you 1st round engagement unless you are not engaging correctly. First round get all your guns on one Y at range 3. Then next round, kill it before it fires. Like one of the post above, you can use obstacles to your advantage. One of your locked ships can hide behind a gas cloud and get free evades from torpedoes. Or large rocks can break up their formation, allowing you easier time to dodge the dangerous arcs or pick-off any stray Ywings. Key with Ywings is just patience. Play the long game. Face the fact you are not going to kill the entire list and focus on what you need to win.

I had to face this at a large system open tourney one time:

Blue Squadron Scout (43)
Leia Organa (7)
Pivot Wing (0)

Gray Squadron Bomber (30)

Gray Squadron Bomber (30)

Gray Squadron Bomber (30)

Gray Squadron Bomber (30)

Gray Squadron Bomber (30)
Total: 200

Just be patient!!!

37 minutes ago, wurms said:

Unless its Anakin or Oddball, they are also low initiative, so they should not be locking you 1st round engagement unless you are not engaging correctly.

Quote

They typically throw a bunch of y-wings with a nasty assortment of synchronized console , dorsal turrets, and proton torpedoes.

If he has one high initiative pilot, then they all have the lock required for firing the torps 1st round.

See. This is the archetype I’ve been trying to warn people about for a while year.

also big thing to note: a new archetype is emerging: it’s not about beef (but highly coupled to beef) but the incredible pervasion of two dice double arcs. 5 tie Sf, arcs, cheap as **** ywings tie aggressors hmps
it’s the double arc Ships that will make aces die like flies.
they’re the new 2.0 turret. It’s not a real 50% nerf from turrets cuz honestly in 1.0 you still had to largely use two arcs for most of your shooting due to how expensive the ships were. It’s only about a 25% or so nerf. And aces were probably similarly nerfed by 25% effectiveness.
but some of these new super cheap small base double arc ships are going to change the game.

17 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

some of these new super cheap small base double arc ships are going to change the game.

I don't agree. I've played against a lot of Y Wing, SF, RZ2 spam. Like, quite a lot. From day 1.

Basically the same as any spam list. Split up, range control, focus fire and mitigate incoming damage till the list loses a 3rd, or half. Then pile in and just take them out 1 by 1, or until they can't win with what's left.

Make a wrong early move and allow a key piece to wrecked by their focus fire, you're gonna struggle. You can't out beef beef if you don't have beef.

(A Wings are ofc not beef, but they are cheap 2 die turrets)

Look, this Republic Y-Wing Beef Buffet is not unbeatable. They’re Y-Wings. Focus fire against their 1 Agility. Don’t let them get locks, if you can help it. Stay out of their front arc.
The cheapest Republic Y-Wing with a Synced Console, ProTorps, and a Dorsal Turret is 44 points, so the maximum number of these the opponent can possibly field is 4, and that leaves an awkward 24 points, which isn’t enough for much else, but is far too much to be devoting to a bid. What are they doing with those points?

If it were me, I’d probably be spending those points to upgrade one of the Y-Wings to Anakin, to make getting the initial lock easier (high initiative guys just have an easier time acquiring locks, because of the way the Activation Phase progresses). And Anakin (BTL-B) + 3 Red Squadron Bombers actually sounds like a cool list!

But they’re Y-Wings. Outmaneuver them. Get out of those front arcs, stop letting them fire Torpedoes. They aren’t fast, and they aren’t maneuverable, and pretty much everything the CIS has should eventually be able to flank them. The Dorsal Turrets aren’t that dangerous; your own attacks ought to smash back much harder.

Stop jousting. You aren’t gonna beat Proton Torpedoes on 8 health before they can shoot, so don’t be in front of them.

Also, more info on specific lists you’re flying/flying against would probably be very helpful. The more specific you are, the more specific advice we can give.

A big thing with turrets is they are only range 1-2. If you can get the Y wings to split up a little in the rocks and then attack from the turret arc at range 3, you can burn them pretty fast

You join us, that's what you do. Plain and simple.

6 hours ago, Makikis said:

I play Republic, so I might have some insight into this (but I don't play Y-Wings so also take all of this with a grain of salt)

One of the main people I play against plays CIS, and what always works for him when he plays against me is a swarm. Multiple times he's tried to use a few beefed up guys, but that hasn't worked very well. CIS is very good at swarming. Try not to sink too many points into one ship, and make it so that losing any one or two ships isn't a huge deal. Assume that some of your vultures are going to die at some point and prepare for that.

Another thing (and this goes for swarms in general) is to try to focus your fire on one or two ships at a time. Point all your ships at one guy, and you'll probably be able to get it off the board in a turn or two.

Also make use of Networked Calculations and Kraken. I don't know if you're using vultures, but hoarding and sharing calculates is one of the big parts of flying vultures. Always default to a calculate action. You'll find that calculates can do a lot more than you might initially think, and they have been a big source of power for my CIS friend.

I hope this helped a little bit!

Yeah, I think that one issue is that I've tried to avoid playing swarms... When I first started playing I was bad until I just started throwing out 6 vultures with 2 Bellbullab's, and then started winning a bunch.

I kind felt like the swarm was boring so I've been trying to get out of it.

When your opponent flies swarm, do they typically fly in box formation?

11 hours ago, Makikis said:

I usually lose when jousting

There is the problem.

14 hours ago, player655164 said:

I give up. I admit. I have no idea what I'm doing.

So among my friend-group who plays there's only one person I can never seem to even come close to beating.

They typically throw a bunch of y-wings with a nasty assortment of synchronized console, dorsal turrets, and proton torpedoes.

and for the life of me I just cannot figure out how to beat him. I start firing away and chipping away, and maybe start to get half on some y-yings for a grand ~20 points a piece, by the time that some of my ships start to go down from a barrage of lock-modded attacks and torpedoes.

What do I do? I'm flying CIS. I was going to try to use a Darth/Jango combo that's been working decently well for me. Any other suggestions?

Without seeing the precise list(s), it is hard to advise. However, I can give some general guidance.

First, Y-wings are slow. Republic Ys in particular have next to no blue on their dial natively. This means they are vulnerable to things which get in amongst them, or force them to turn around.

For the Ys to get the greatest advantage from their turrets, they need to stay close togetherto focus their fire. This makes them vulnerable to getting blocked, having bombs launched in amongst them, or being predicatable.

Republic Ys packing ProTorps and Synced Consoles are 42pts at the very cheapest (44pts with a Dorsal). For that, you can afford two Vultures, one carrying Discord Missiles, or a single much more capable ship.

Synced Consoles are...not brilliant for putting out reliable firepower from their torpedoes. Relying on them means they can't spend the lock for rerolls, meaning at best they are relying on a single focus token for modification. Also, if they pass the lock around their entire formation, they're firing all those torps at a single fighter. Consider that to be a *good* thing, as when playing CIS you want your opponent to waste lots of shots on a single expendable Vulture (which the death of then gives everyone Calculates because of TA-175...).

50 minutes ago, AceDogbert said:

when playing CIS you want your opponent to waste lots of shots on a single expendable Vulture

Yes, this is definitely great advice. I find myself doing that a lot.

1 hour ago, Odanan said:

There is the problem.

When I said that, I was talking about my Republic losing when jousting with CIS

8 hours ago, player655164 said:

When your opponent flies swarm, do they typically fly in box formation?

Not that I know of. I don't really know what that is, so I guess he probably doesn't 😁 . He usually just blasts his guys forward at my guys and straight up jousts.

It looks like what you need to do is fight beef with beef. CIS doesn't really have any reliable aces, (the tri-fighter might change that, I don't know) so you won't be able to pull something off like Republic would be able to with 2 Jedi.

13 hours ago, Makikis said:

In my experience, that hasn't ever really happened, although my opponent hasn't really tried it. I usually lose when jousting

Mm. I guess it depends? I've found that my Republic Beef usually wins jousts...but not against Swarms. So, if you're jousting a swarm, you're doing it wrong. But, any, like, mixed salad lists, Ace+mini swarm, Beef...getting the Joust (especially a favourable one) is the Republic's way to win. With the extra arcs, it is much easier for them to maintain Time on Target while turning, while your opponent is going to need to perform red maneuvers, or lose arc.

39 minutes ago, Makikis said:

Yes, this is definitely great advice. I find myself doing that a lot.

When I said that, I was talking about my Republic losing when jousting with CIS

Not that I know of. I don't really know what that is, so I guess he probably doesn't 😁 . He usually just blasts his guys forward at my guys and straight up jousts.

It looks like what you need to do is fight beef with beef. CIS doesn't really have any reliable aces, (the tri-fighter might change that, I don't know) so you won't be able to pull something off like Republic would be able to with 2 Jedi.

Box formation is asking about what shape the ships are in. A line? A 2X2 box? A triangle, with a flanker? Depending on how he is flying them, you have different options for engaging. Regardless, never offer him the joust. Allow him the option of turning into the rocks, and getting into a bad position if he wants to joust...and disengage as soon as he does so.

CIS can still use the Nantex as an ace - those things can hit hard if left alone, and are still amazing at range control and flanking. The Tri also does seem to be a good contender for pocket aces.

Tractors, in general, might be helpful? If you can toss a Y-Wing onto a rock, that's one less Torpedo shot.

Best of luck!

Beef? With a meat tenderizer, probably.

Jango can take a cannon, right? Slam the Y-Wings with a tractor beam or ion cannon, Hyena's with Ion weapons, anything to control what the Y-Wings do. They're not going to evade a bunch of shots like that with one evade.