Has anyone tried using a pelta not as a carrier or fleet command fodder but as a mini-battleship? I think for a small ship it is pretty durable, has nice weaponry and cheap. The only thing missing is some upgrade possibilities for turbolaser/ioncannon, no? But one variant has ordnance slot, which is with ExRacks and Intensify! kind of hard hitting, especially if you can set up some nice double arc with maybe multiple ships. As for the command version you can use DCaps which is not that bad even if you only manage to shoot from the front. Put there Aux Shield Teams and SFO and you got a pretty decent combat ship.

I've tried this a few days ago, and it performed quite nice despite I did everything to screw my own fleet up (That means most of the time my ships couldnt double arc) (it was a bit different):

Name: Panzershiff
Faction: Rebel
Commander: Mon Mothma

Assault: Ion Storm
Defense: Abandoned Mining Facility
Navigation: Solar Corona

Pelta Command Ship (60)
• Mon Mothma (27)
• Ezra Bridger (3)
• Auxiliary Shields Team (3)
• Intensify Firepower! (6)
= 99 Points

Pelta Assault Ship (56)
• Skilled First Officer (1)
• Auxiliary Shields Team (3)
• External Racks (4)
= 64 Points

Pelta Assault Ship (56)
• Skilled First Officer (1)
• Auxiliary Shields Team (3)
• External Racks (4)
= 64 Points

Pelta Assault Ship (56)
• Skilled First Officer (1)
• Auxiliary Shields Team (3)
• External Racks (4)
= 64 Points

CR90 Corvette B (39)
• Ion Cannon Batteries (5)
= 44 Points

GR-75 Medium Transports (18)
• Ahsoka Tano (2)
• Munitions Resupply (3)
= 23 Points

Squadrons:
• Kanan Jarrus (19)
• 2 x A-wing Squadron (22)
= 41 Points

Total Points: 399

The problem you'll likely encounter is the fact that Pelta's are slow. You're not going to be running away if things go sour. I'd put SW-7's on the CR-90, for pure damage. As for squads, why not swap the A-Wings for Shara or Tycho? Then you can command them with Boosted Comms added to the GR-75 from the points savings.

Other than that, looks fun!

(never mind - mixed up Abandoned Mining Facility with Salvage Run)

Haven't fully read/broken down the list but something to consider: I once ran a Command Pelta with Disposable Capacitors with Opening Salvo as the objective. It can actually put some pretty serious long-range hurt.

15 hours ago, Bravo Null said:

The problem you'll likely encounter is the fact that Pelta's are slow. You're not going to be running away if things go sour. I'd put SW-7's on the CR-90, for pure damage. As for squads, why not swap the A-Wings for Shara or Tycho? Then you can command them with Boosted Comms added to the GR-75 from the points savings.

Other than that, looks fun!

Yeah, agree, they are slow as ****... But a few good timed nav maybe helps them to turn out of bad arcs. Thing is, that I want to give ICB-s a shot. They seem like a fun upgrade even though SW-7 is maybe stronger. Swapping the A-wings for both Shara and Tycho would be great, but I lack the necessary points to do so. And I'm not sure swapping both A-wings for just one ace worth it... Or maybe could get rid of Kanan, but I'm very fond of him... Maybe could ditch out the CR90 for one more GR-75 and some squads/upgrades

6 hours ago, Flyinpenguin117 said:

Haven't fully read/broken down the list but something to consider: I once ran a Command Pelta with Disposable Capacitors with Opening Salvo as the objective. It can actually put some pretty serious long-range hurt.

Yep, DCaps peltas are no joke!

I think Aux Shields Peltas are super tough for the points, and really fun - especially on a 3x3 map. The problem i found is that 1) there's not enough black dice to reliably trigger an ordnance card, 2) there's no weapons team for OE, 3) no defensive retrofit to prevent tokens from being locked down, and 4) the speed issue mentioned above.

For a mere 7 points more the torpedo MC30 offers 1 less hull but 3 more shields and 2 more dice on a double arc....plus native speed 4.

Having one Pelta for the fight for its Fleet Command is useful....because it can fight well enough. I'm not sure it can fight well enough to make them the mainstay of a fleet...

13 hours ago, Maturin said:

I think Aux Shields Peltas are super tough for the points, and really fun - especially on a 3x3 map. The problem i found is that 1) there's not enough black dice to reliably trigger an ordnance card, 2) there's no weapons team for OE, 3) no defensive retrofit to prevent tokens from being locked down, and 4) the speed issue mentioned above.

For a mere 7 points more the torpedo MC30 offers 1 less hull but 3 more shields and 2 more dice on a double arc....plus native speed 4.

Having one Pelta for the fight for its Fleet Command is useful....because it can fight well enough. I'm not sure it can fight well enough to make them the mainstay of a fleet...

So 1) I don't want to trigger an ordnance upgrade for the reason you mentioned.

2) I have IF! which might not be enough for 4 red/black dice but improves the expected value of the shot regardless (My math is: given has a 25% chance on both reds and blacks, on average i'll likely have only one blank and i can fix that)

3) That's true, but ECM would make this ship way more expensive and even if I had he chance to put here ECM I would really consider to do so. With 3 different kind of tokens, its likely that i can use at least one of them, even against the biggest of dice pools. And thats the reason I put Solar Corona in there. they are tough enough (especially with a Repair command) to survive about two, slightly above average ISD shots with just redirect (though barely, and depends on the upgrades).

4) The speed issue certainly hurts. Can't run away from anything, can't get out of arcs that easily, can't zoom in like an MC30c. But. With a nav command and with their generous front arc once you close up to the target you can dodge the arc while you can still double arc them. For this, of course, you need to survive a big shot, but after that with 3 different kinds of def tokens an ISDs side won't kill you assuming you still have some hull and shields left.

An MC30 is only slightly more expensive, that's true, but you need to outfit it. A standard Landmonition is 81-82 points depending on what ordnance do you take, this makes it 15 pts more expensive, a hefty 23% increase in points. And it sounds way superior at first, but I don't think that's the case. Lando+admo is hard to kill, but it's defense capabilities diminishes quickly. Lando is a discard, Admo eats away her very own defense tokens. She can tank a burst better, but a pelta is better at smaller, multiple attacks. With an MC30c you zoom in, double arc, tons of damage, flee. Usually one attack per game. But with those underestimated peltas, you can continue to be a jerk after you dodged the worst arcs. Sure, my little pelta has way less damage with its double arc, but how less exactly? Let's do the math. Let's have a look at flagship's statistics: (Thanks @videege for making this statistic stuff!)

MC30c: (with OE, APT)

• Front: avg: 3.25; chance of crit: 0.875
• Side: avg: 5; chance of crit: 1.375
• Double arc: 8.25 with good chances for APT (or whatever you choose)

Pelta: (ExRacks, IF!)(close range)

• Front: avg: 3.671
• Side: avg: 3.921 (ExRacks added)
• Double arc: 7.592

So as we see the pelta is not very behind. Taken APT into account, about 2 dmg on average. (ofc a face up is much nicer than +1 flat damage to the attack). But with a pelta, 1) you have long range shots, 2) you can stay at a weaker arc for longer time and +1) as you can't get away with speed 4, you might as well have a confire, but it is suboptimal to engineering/nav most of the time. So over time I believe that a pelta deals more damage, cheaper so you can field more, and not very dependent on last-firsting. So you can gang up on a poor unfortunate ship with 2-4 peltas. Sure you'll lose some, but if you kill a big ship it's worth it.

I'm not sure they can be the mainstay of a fleet as well, but that's why I am experimenting with it.

The thing what I'm unsure about is the cr90b and Kaanan.

The real issue here is to get 4 Peltas. (People laughed at me when I told them I bought a second)

Fair points @sasska - you've clearly thought this through! And i missed the exrax (vs crits) in your build.

I do think that having at least 1 Pelta with Engine Techs is a good thing. Four Peltas all wanting to be at short range of a target will lead to quite a few traffic jams, and having one speed 3 capable ship will really help with your positioning. It comes at a cost of durability but I think it's worth the tradeoff.

You have the CR90B for speed, but I can't help but feel that it's a little out of place here, and is likely to get shot up before it can do much good. I'd either 1) trade it in for a CR90A Jaina's Light, and put Mon Mothma on it, or 2) downgrade it to a transport with Comms Net or Parts Resupply. Comms Net would be better if you include an Engine Techs ship, to feed it navs. You can use the 24 extra points for Engine Techs and still throw Tycho in there (or Shara if you lose the bid) to get that extra deployment. Now the Peltas can focus on navving and shooting, while the transports shepherd the fighters and throw tokens around.

17 hours ago, KaLeu said:

The real issue here is to get 4 Peltas. (People laughed at me when I told them I bought a second)

Yeah, I won't buy 4 peltas just for one list... Maybe I'll buy a second one, and borrow the other ones when I play this list.

14 hours ago, Maturin said:

Fair points @sasska - you've clearly thought this through! And i missed the exrax (vs crits) in your build.

Yep, but I need someone to come up with these doubts, so I need to put my misty thoughts into proper reasons: that way I convince myself that I do have a plan.

14 hours ago, Maturin said:

I do think that having at least 1 Pelta with Engine Techs is a good thing. Four Peltas all wanting to be at short range of a target will lead to quite a few traffic jams, and having one speed 3 capable ship will really help with your positioning. It comes at a cost of durability but I think it's worth the tradeoff.

And that would make easier to dodge dangerous arc, and threaten them from other sides as well. That may very solve the traffic jam issue. I've been thinking on it, but no solutions so far. If they are too close to each other I need to activate them in a certain order, which I am not a big fan of.

14 hours ago, Maturin said:

You have the CR90B for speed, but I can't help but feel that it's a little out of place here, and is likely to get shot up before it can do much good. I'd either 1) trade it in for a CR90A Jaina's Light, and put Mon Mothma on it, or 2) downgrade it to a transport with Comms Net or Parts Resupply. Comms Net would be better if you include an Engine Techs ship, to feed it navs. You can use the 24 extra points for Engine Techs and still throw Tycho in there (or Shara if you lose the bid) to get that extra deployment. Now the Peltas can focus on navving and shooting, while the transports shepherd the fighters and throw tokens around.

I don't feel the CR90B either... But I kinda feel that 4 pelta as only combat ships is maybe not enough? It certainly feels like not enough... But it would be extra 24 points. which is nice. Shara, Tycho vs 3 A-wings is a thing im not sure of either... ST is better against squads, while 3 As are better against ships. I'd try to include Shields to Maximum!, even if I only use it a few times it is worth it. Multiple ships will get hurt in the long run anyway. And I can fuel it with parts resupply. I have Ashoka as well, so I can juggle tokens around.

Another interesting question would be: Proxy Mines, or DCaps on the flagship? Both cheap, and powerful. Reasons for mines: objective play. It would make Ion Storm (Mines on the obstacles so they wont come close to them: They got the objective tokens for the crit effect) and Abandoned Mining Facility (Mines on the dust field that my opponent placed) more powerful. It doesn't really help Solar Corona though... Unless I come up with a plan for that. Dcaps would be just raw muscles, the flagships double arc would hurt them for good, it will be lurking at the back anyway. This way I can follow up the black dudes with blue/red dice.

6 hours ago, sasska said:

I'd try to include Shields to Maximum!, even if I only use it a few times it is worth it. Multiple ships will get hurt in the long run anyway. And I can fuel it with parts resupply. I have Ashoka as well, so I can juggle tokens around.

If you want to try Shields to Maximum, I'd want to put a Projection Experts on one Pelta as well (probably the flagship if it's in the rear). That way you really double town on the tankiness of the fleet, and you can Project onto the Aux shields teams in the front line. And the Shields to Max will have 2 ships to work on (at least) even if the enemy focuses fire on only one ship at a time. You could try that instead of the Engine Techs and add the Disp Capactitors like you say.

I'm not sure that Prox Mines are worth the extra cost, I think you'd be better off putting those points into squadrons. You don't need too much more squadron-wise, since blue/black flak is quite potent, but I'd want at least 4 squads for the deployment factor alone. Especially since your peltas are slow.....delaying deployment as much as you can is critical to success.

@sasska Thanks for the shout out. Love to see people using the statistics!

On 12/9/2020 at 10:06 AM, sasska said:

So 1) I don't want to trigger an ordnance upgrade for the reason you mentioned.

2) I have IF! which might not be enough for 4 red/black dice but improves the expected value of the shot regardless (My math is: given has a 25% chance on both reds and blacks, on average i'll likely have only one blank and i can fix that)

3) That's true, but ECM would make this ship way more expensive and even if I had he chance to put here ECM I would really consider to do so. With 3 different kind of tokens, its likely that i can use at least one of them, even against the biggest of dice pools. And thats the reason I put Solar Corona in there. they are tough enough (especially with a Repair command) to survive about two, slightly above average ISD shots with just redirect (though barely, and depends on the upgrades).

4) The speed issue certainly hurts. Can't run away from anything, can't get out of arcs that easily, can't zoom in like an MC30c. But. With a nav command and with their generous front arc once you close up to the target you can dodge the arc while you can still double arc them. For this, of course, you need to survive a big shot, but after that with 3 different kinds of def tokens an ISDs side won't kill you assuming you still have some hull and shields left.

An MC30 is only slightly more expensive, that's true, but you need to outfit it. A standard Landmonition is 81-82 points depending on what ordnance do you take, this makes it 15 pts more expensive, a hefty 23% increase in points. And it sounds way superior at first, but I don't think that's the case. Lando+admo is hard to kill, but it's defense capabilities diminishes quickly. Lando is a discard, Admo eats away her very own defense tokens. She can tank a burst better, but a pelta is better at smaller, multiple attacks. With an MC30c you zoom in, double arc, tons of damage, flee. Usually one attack per game. But with those underestimated peltas, you can continue to be a jerk after you dodged the worst arcs. Sure, my little pelta has way less damage with its double arc, but how less exactly? Let's do the math. Let's have a look at flagship's statistics: (Thanks @videege for making this statistic stuff!)

MC30c: (with OE, APT)

• Front: avg: 3.25; chance of crit: 0.875
• Side: avg: 5; chance of crit: 1.375
• Double arc: 8.25 with good chances for APT (or whatever you choose)

Pelta: (ExRacks, IF!)(close range)

• Front: avg: 3.671
• Side: avg: 3.921 (ExRacks added)
• Double arc: 7.592

So as we see the pelta is not very behind. Taken APT into account, about 2 dmg on average. (ofc a face up is much nicer than +1 flat damage to the attack). But with a pelta, 1) you have long range shots, 2) you can stay at a weaker arc for longer time and +1) as you can't get away with speed 4, you might as well have a confire, but it is suboptimal to engineering/nav most of the time. So over time I believe that a pelta deals more damage, cheaper so you can field more, and not very dependent on last-firsting. So you can gang up on a poor unfortunate ship with 2-4 peltas. Sure you'll lose some, but if you kill a big ship it's worth it.

I'm not sure they can be the mainstay of a fleet as well, but that's why I am experimenting with it.

The thing what I'm unsure about is the cr90b and Kaanan.

I don't know. I think that one of your core assumptions is the issue for me, which is that you will get to choose the engagement range. Speed 2 ships don't get to choose - witness the unpopularity of the Vic which, while an admirable ship, is slow and hard to turn (except for Harrow). Here are a couple of fleets which I think you would lose bigly against:

1 - Romodi Onager plus Arquitens. The Onager will destroy at least one and perhaps two of your Peltas before you can get close enough for your ExRax. I have consistently scored 7 damage plus accuracies with a Testbed with Veteran Gunners and Ordnance Experts. Three Arquitens will just prance out of your firing range and take you apart at long range with 4 or 5 red dice per round.

2 - Anything with lots of bombers. A full fighter wing will blow through your screen and by turn 3 your Peltas will be taking a beasting from Y-Wings, B-wings etc. Your flak isn't heavy enough to slow them down.

3 - Agate Starhawk. You need to be putting the damage on a Starhawk consistently from turn 3 at the latest to stand a chance of wrecking it, and I'm not sure you're fast or maneuverable enough. It wouldn't be an automatic win for the Starhawk but I don't know that you can do enough damage in enough time.

I also think you'd struggle with any objective token or points-scoring objective.

16 hours ago, Maturin said:

If you want to try Shields to Maximum, I'd want to put a Projection Experts on one Pelta as well (probably the flagship if it's in the rear). That way you really double town on the tankiness of the fleet, and you can Project onto the Aux shields teams in the front line. And the Shields to Max will have 2 ships to work on (at least) even if the enemy focuses fire on only one ship at a time. You could try that instead of the Engine Techs and add the Disp Capactitors like you say.

I'm not sure that Prox Mines are worth the extra cost, I think you'd be better off putting those points into squadrons. You don't need too much more squadron-wise, since blue/black flak is quite potent, but I'd want at least 4 squads for the deployment factor alone. Especially since your peltas are slow.....delaying deployment as much as you can is critical to success.

It indeed seems like a good shout to add Projection Experts along Shields to Max. Really like the idea! This way the StM can be maximized nicely. On the side note: I realized that Shields to Maximum! and Projection Experts doesn't work with Aux Shields Team, as it requires the ship to execute an engineering.

About the mines: I have plans for all three objectives. Ion Storm: just put them on obstacles that the opponent might wanted to use to prevent the crit effect. Abandoned Mining Facility: put them on one of the dust fields, so i deny points, or on the space whales depending on the opponents fleet. As for Solar Corona, I need to come up with a deployment plan that is not entire dependent on the opponents set up, and mines can help with this, cordoning off narrow passages between obstacles. I'm not sure if they are better than DCaps or not. But after a couple of games, I might have a clearer idea on it.

4 hours ago, flatpackhamster said:

I don't know. I think that one of your core assumptions is the issue for me, which is that you will get to choose the engagement range. Speed 2 ships don't get to choose - witness the unpopularity of the Vic which, while an admirable ship, is slow and hard to turn (except for Harrow). Here are a couple of fleets which I think you would lose bigly against:

1 - Romodi Onager plus Arquitens. The Onager will destroy at least one and perhaps two of your Peltas before you can get close enough for your ExRax. I have consistently scored 7 damage plus accuracies with a Testbed with Veteran Gunners and Ordnance Experts. Three Arquitens will just prance out of your firing range and take you apart at long range with 4 or 5 red dice per round.

2 - Anything with lots of bombers. A full fighter wing will blow through your screen and by turn 3 your Peltas will be taking a beasting from Y-Wings, B-wings etc. Your flak isn't heavy enough to slow them down.

3 - Agate Starhawk. You need to be putting the damage on a Starhawk consistently from turn 3 at the latest to stand a chance of wrecking it, and I'm not sure you're fast or maneuverable enough. It wouldn't be an automatic win for the Starhawk but I don't know that you can do enough damage in enough time.

I also think you'd struggle with any objective token or points-scoring objective.

You have your points here. I don't yet know how would I handle top tier fleets. But a pelta is not a vic. (You didn't claim it is, I know). So the pelta is cheaper (deploy more), thougher with aux shields team (same shields, better def tokens), especially if i play around it with cheap upgrades (not something like Tua+ECM), and while it has the same speed two, the nav chart is miles better, at both speeds.

1 - No clue how would I handle that. I need some practice games and theory crafting. They would surely choose Ion Storm if I end up as second player. Dunno

2 - While don't have much of a fighter coverage, I plan to fly them in tight(ish) formation, that means overlapping flak fields. And I have ExRacks, which help to focus down non-scatter key squadrons, like our good friend Marek. The evade change helps a bit too.

3 - I have only met SH twice, once on each end of it. So I'm not sure how would I handle it, but I'm confident I can come up with a decent plan.

And in general, I think I have good objectives. They will help mitigating some of the threats. And being second doesn't really hurt my fleet I think. With a 1 point bid I can elect to be second a few times, for sure. I aim to learn some neat maneuvers and flying in formation. Both of them help this fleet significantly.

But I have two significant advantages: 1) Probably that's the first time they encounter a pelta spam list, while i'll practice against mainstream archetypes, so will have clear plans and expectations on mind. 2) I expect the opponent to underestimate this fleet like no tomorrow. It seems like only supports ships mocked up as battleship. Which is true. But at the same time, surprisingly effective. This will make them think less, until they are in a though situation. I want to see how confidence and sorry for me in their eyes turns into horror and disbelief.

5 hours ago, sasska said:

It indeed seems like a good shout to add Projection Experts along Shields to Max. Really like the idea! This way the StM can be maximized nicely. On the side note: I realized that Shields to Maximum! and Projection Experts doesn't work with Aux Shields Team, as it requires the ship to execute an engineering.

About the mines: I have plans for all three objectives. Ion Storm: just put them on obstacles that the opponent might wanted to use to prevent the crit effect. Abandoned Mining Facility: put them on one of the dust fields, so i deny points, or on the space whales depending on the opponents fleet. As for Solar Corona, I need to come up with a deployment plan that is not entire dependent on the opponents set up, and mines can help with this, cordoning off narrow passages between obstacles. I'm not sure if they are better than DCaps or not. But after a couple of games, I might have a clearer idea on it.

Good point - i guess the workaround is to have the ship move shields to the sides, leaving the rear (or front) low, which Proj Experts then fills up. Risky and complicated, but doable. I've always treated Aux Shields teams like a shield battery - you have shields you can move around for 1 engineering point instead of needing to regenerate for 2.

I'm just not convinced about the deterrence factor for mines - in my experience Large ships don't mind blowing through one or two to get at your fleet. But I say go ahead and test it, could be good! Looking forward to your experiments, please let us know how your games go. I ran a tanky Pelta list in my latest RitR campaign and they were always fun.

4 hours ago, Maturin said:

Good point - i guess the workaround is to have the ship move shields to the sides, leaving the rear (or front) low, which Proj Experts then fills up. Risky and complicated, but doable. I've always treated Aux Shields teams like a shield battery - you have shields you can move around for 1 engineering point instead of needing to regenerate for 2.

I'm just not convinced about the deterrence factor for mines - in my experience Large ships don't mind blowing through one or two to get at your fleet. But I say go ahead and test it, could be good! Looking forward to your experiments, please let us know how your games go. I ran a tanky Pelta list in my latest RitR campaign and they were always fun.

Surely I'll share my experience. Good to hear that you had fun with them! What kind of list did you have?

So I played a couple of games, and as guys mentioned, the speed is a real issue. Not when they are coming at me, but I can't chase anything with them. Maybe need to include ET at some point... On the other hand they are surprisingly though with Aux Shields, parts resupply and StM. One of my games was against a bomber fleet, which, just as @flatpackhamster suggested obliterated my fleet. I made a ton of mistakes tho, so I'm not sure what would have been the outcome if I flown them well. The flak did a very good job to be honest, 1black 1 blue is not that bad, especially in a close formation with overlapping Flak fields. I'd might need Toryn tho, she is so powerful in these kind of scenarios. I have three variants in mind. Replace a pelta with:

• Foresight (this requires ditching Kaanan as well)
• Salvation ( this requires ditching Kaanan as well)
• Liberator with Z-95s and Xwings (replace current fighter wing as well)

Foresight is op with mothma, with 6 activations, even as second player i can use it well i think. Salvation is a great flanker. Liberator is a good flanker as well, and can ditch All Fighters Follow Me! so the x-wings and headhunters can swarm in. With the advent of generics, Z-95s might not that bad after all...

On 12/7/2020 at 12:04 PM, sasska said:

Has anyone tried using a pelta not as a carrier or fleet command fodder but as a mini-battleship?

No, because for basically the same price you can get an MC30, which hits substantially harder, is twice as fast, is more maneuverable, and is pretty comparable in survivability.

On 12/15/2020 at 5:18 AM, sasska said:

So I played a couple of games, and as guys mentioned, the speed is a real issue. Not when they are coming at me, but I can't chase anything with them. Maybe need to include ET at some point... On the other hand they are surprisingly though with Aux Shields, parts resupply and StM. One of my games was against a bomber fleet, which, just as @flatpackhamster suggested obliterated my fleet. I made a ton of mistakes tho, so I'm not sure what would have been the outcome if I flown them well. The flak did a very good job to be honest, 1black 1 blue is not that bad, especially in a close formation with overlapping Flak fields. I'd might need Toryn tho, she is so powerful in these kind of scenarios. I have three variants in mind. Replace a pelta with:

• Foresight (this requires ditching Kaanan as well)
• Salvation ( this requires ditching Kaanan as well)
• Liberator with Z-95s and Xwings (replace current fighter wing as well)

Foresight is op with mothma, with 6 activations, even as second player i can use it well i think. Salvation is a great flanker. Liberator is a good flanker as well, and can ditch All Fighters Follow Me! so the x-wings and headhunters can swarm in. With the advent of generics, Z-95s might not that bad after all...

On 12/20/2020 at 11:24 AM, EBerling said:

No, because for basically the same price you can get an MC30, which hits substantially harder, is twice as fast, is more maneuverable, and is pretty comparable in survivability.

I mean, this is it, really. The Alliance has access to the MC30, the most powerful small warship in the game by miles (dunno about the Republic Charger and the Hardcell yet, haven’t fielded either). I know the new changes to a lot of the Ordnance upgrades and the Admonition title have softened its bite a little, but those same changes also made them slightly cheaper, and very few ships have more to gain from the new Evade token rules, so I gotta believe they’re in a great place in 1.5.

The Pelta is, I will grant, the ship in Armada that I’m traditionally most likely to underestimate, but it’s just not as powerful, versatile, or survivable as an MC30, and flying more than one in a fleet that doesn’t care about Squadron commands (the one area where a Pelta compares very favorably to an MC30) just doesn’t make any sense to me at all. One Pelta? Sure, have a Fleet Command, an affordable carrier, and a dual Officer platform with decent if unexceptional firepower and reasonable survivability. The second, third, and fourth Peltas will almost always be better as MC30’s.

Speed 2 is a killer. The MC-80H1 and the Starhawk get away with it because they’re bloody beastly tanks. The SSD and Interdictor, same story. The VSD is just a pile of stats for cheap, can project a massive amount of force with Disposable Capacitors, and even has tools to mitigate the poor chart somewhat with Harrow and Jerjerrod. But for a small-based ship with unexciting defensive stats to really make the grade, it either needs to do something special (which the first one does!), or it needs speed 3+ (or both). Which means Engine Techs. Which means it costs more per Pelta than it should. The first one? (Probably) Worth it. Subsequent Peltas? Not so much.

10 hours ago, Cpt ObVus said:

I mean, this is it, really. The Alliance has access to the MC30, the most powerful small warship in the game by miles (dunno about the Republic Charger and the Hardcell yet, haven’t fielded either). I know the new changes to a lot of the Ordnance upgrades and the Admonition title have softened its bite a little, but those same changes also made them slightly cheaper, and very few ships have more to gain from the new Evade token rules, so I gotta believe they’re in a great place in 1.5.

The Pelta is, I will grant, the ship in Armada that I’m traditionally most likely to underestimate, but it’s just not as powerful, versatile, or survivable as an MC30, and flying more than one in a fleet that doesn’t care about Squadron commands (the one area where a Pelta compares very favorably to an MC30) just doesn’t make any sense to me at all. One Pelta? Sure, have a Fleet Command, an affordable carrier, and a dual Officer platform with decent if unexceptional firepower and reasonable survivability. The second, third, and fourth Peltas will almost always be better as MC30’s.

Speed 2 is a killer. The MC-80H1 and the Starhawk get away with it because they’re bloody beastly tanks. The SSD and Interdictor, same story. The VSD is just a pile of stats for cheap, can project a massive amount of force with Disposable Capacitors, and even has tools to mitigate the poor chart somewhat with Harrow and Jerjerrod. But for a small-based ship with unexciting defensive stats to really make the grade, it either needs to do something special (which the first one does!), or it needs speed 3+ (or both). Which means Engine Techs. Which means it costs more per Pelta than it should. The first one? (Probably) Worth it. Subsequent Peltas? Not so much.

While I love the mc30, I respectfully disagree with you, both. I mentioned the reasons above already. So far, the only thing I found the mc30 significantly better at is speed. That's rather big, though, but I'm working on it. ( I played the mc30 enough to give me confidence in my reasons.)

28 minutes ago, sasska said:

While I love the mc30, I respectfully disagree with you, both. I mentioned the reasons above already. So far, the only thing I found the mc30 significantly better at is speed. That's rather big, though, but I'm working on it. ( I played the mc30 enough to give me confidence in my reasons.)

But the MC30 does also hit much harder and is at least as survivable as the Pelta (especailly once you take the Foresight or Admonition title). That alone makes it a much better battleship, let alone that it is twice as fast.

Maybe I missed your other reasons why the Pelta has an edge as a battleship? Because, as @Cpt ObVus noted, the only thing the Pelta has going for it is a Fleet Command slot.

11 hours ago, EBerling said:

But the MC30 does also hit much harder and is at least as survivable as the Pelta (especailly once you take the Foresight or Admonition title). That alone makes it a much better battleship, let alone that it is twice as fast.

Maybe I missed your other reasons why the Pelta has an edge as a battleship? Because, as @Cpt ObVus noted, the only thing the Pelta has going for it is a Fleet Command slot.

So I made a statistical calculation above somewhere about damage values of the pelta compared to the mc30. Mc30 is good at one thing: zoom in, burst something, flee. It has no continuous damage (apart from red dice Ackbar plans) while the pelta IMO can do this better because it has a versatile defense token load out. This is only theory so far, I haven't played with these guys in a few weeks time because of Christmas and the CW vassal tournament. So far I am leaning towards that mass pelta is not the best, but I'm thinking to swap one of them to something else. (mc30/neb/cr90) So it can flank while the others fly in formation. Maybe I need to revise my objectives as well, so I can make the enemy attack me if they don't want to lose.

16 hours ago, sasska said:

So I made a statistical calculation above somewhere about damage values of the pelta compared to the mc30. Mc30 is good at one thing: zoom in, burst something, flee. It has no continuous damage (apart from red dice Ackbar plans) while the pelta IMO can do this better because it has a versatile defense token load out. This is only theory so far, I haven't played with these guys in a few weeks time because of Christmas and the CW vassal tournament. So far I am leaning towards that mass pelta is not the best, but I'm thinking to swap one of them to something else. (mc30/neb/cr90) So it can flank while the others fly in formation. Maybe I need to revise my objectives as well, so I can make the enemy attack me if they don't want to lose.

The Pelta’s defense tokens are “versatile” inasmuch as they provide the opponent a wide variety of non-redundant tokens to slap an accuracy on. Peltas are too slow to evade enemy fire, and when they get shot, they take it on the chin. MC30’s, flown correctly, should rarely take damage, and the once or twice per game they do take a big shot, they have a ton of defensive options and damage mitigation tools that let them skate. That means they punch you again. And again.

The math on the Pelta may seem okay, until you consider that a properly equipped MC30 can slip in past the enemy’s best arcs, hit hard, take a counterpunch, and has the maneuverability to U-turn and do it again, hounding the enemy unto his death. Peltas got shot up bad on the way in, send out a decent(?) punch, probably get shot up even worse on the way out, and are pokey enough that they probably aren’t coming back for another pass, nor are they going to escape any fighter group or other pursuer sent to finish them off.

Maneuverability is king. Speed 2 on a small base makes you a support ship, not a warship. That said, if you wanna hard-mode it, fly four Peltas! I just think you’d find three MC30’s and a Pelta far less frustrating.

I also gotta say, with the recent price reduction to Mon Mothma and a lot of other MC30 toys, and the boost to the power of Evade tokens, I think MC30’s are possibly set to be the ship to beat.

On 1/2/2021 at 2:42 AM, sasska said:

So I made a statistical calculation above somewhere about damage values of the pelta compared to the mc30. Mc30 is good at one thing: zoom in, burst something, flee. It has no continuous damage (apart from red dice Ackbar plans) ...

You are really selling the MC30 short here. It shouldn't need to flee so quickly, especially if you've utilized its speed and maneuverability to avoid the nastiest enemy arc(s). It's also very easy to get dual arc attacks with the MC30, whereas it's much much harder to dual-arc your target with the Pelta.

The Pelta is nothing but a Fleet Command ship. If you're not bringing it for it's fleet command, basically don't bring it unless you just really like the look of the ship and don't mind the inefficiency of the chassis.