22 hours ago, Cpt ObVus said:

They’re also only 41 points, as opposed to the 49 of a 7B Jedi Knight. But they definitely aren’t as beefy.

Still, adding a Stealth Device to an Eta-2 Jedi General is exactly the same price (49 points) as fielding a Delta-7B Jedi Knight, and the General has numerous advantages... better upgrade slots, higher initiative (4 instead of 3), another Force charge (2, to the Knight’s 1), 4 defense dice until the Stealth Device gets burned, and 3 thereafter, as opposed to only 2 greens for the 7B... I mean, even just the extra Force charge puts it head and shoulders above the Delta-7B. I struggle to think why one would even consider a 7B Knight over an Eta-2 General with Stealth Device. A Calibrated Laser Targeting Knight? Sure, but they’re 12 points cheaper!

Because a 49 point Jedi General's offense is a wet noodle compared to a 7b Knight, especially when the opponents decide that it's not worth it to gun for the generals, and instead blow out the LAAT? Now you've got 3 2 dice attacks with no real rerolls.

59 minutes ago, Cpt ObVus said:

Range control keeps your LAAT out of the line of fire. And if they shoot the LAAT instead of a Jedi, it’s a win.

Look, there’s not black and white choice between arc-dodging and jousting. They are not opposites. Jousting involves a “**** the torpedoes, full speed ahead” approach, and arc-dodging is a defensive maneuver, but there’s also such a thing as not charging straight into the enemy’s teeth, yet staying in the fight, supporting your friendlies. That’s what the LAAT should do. That’s partly why it has a turret; so it can support from a flanking position. I welcome long range shots on my LAAT all day. I don’t call that a joust.

If you don’t like the idea, or you think the 7B does a better job, fine. But it really sounds like you’re attempting to evaluate my list while also assuming one would fly it in the most obtuse and least effective way, and that doesn’t seem entirely fair.

In my experience, LAAT’s are tough, tanky, and not typically worth the time it takes to bring one down. But they must be flown intelligently, as must almost anything.

Easier said than done. You have to give your opponent some credit! The LAAT has one of the worst dials in the game and only 1 agility! If your opponent wants to shoot it down, you can't stop it

1 hour ago, LeMightyASP said:

Easier said than done. You have to give your opponent some credit! The LAAT has one of the worst dials in the game and only 1 agility! If your opponent wants to shoot it down, you can't stop it

Plus, if you're range controlling to keep it from getting shot, it also probably isn't able to give its rerolls.

In the good captains defence, I agree on good LAAT piloting. Range control should get you the FC arc you want. A varied approach pattern, using the obstacles, asks them if they really want to spend the next 2/3 turns hunting it down, while the rest of your list does what it wants. Then you have all sorts of standard double arc choices, turn away, turn in, fast/slow fwd, stop etc. Ramming through obstacles is a big option that shouldn't be discounted. Keeping arc coverage and presenting difficult target choices are the primary concern.

It's a pricey source of rerolls if it isn't an overwhelming influence on enemy positioning and/or just gets splat on the joust and follow through.

The hardest part of the not-joust is how bloody long it takes to turn back into combat if they decide it's too costly to try and finish it. That's the main reason I'm not terribly keen on Eta's plus LAAT. You can make it a hard, or poor target with its positioning, while keeping FC active, but not for very long against somebody that is happy for it to go somewhere else while they corral your fragile fighters.

I had major planning problems when running it with 3x CLT vs Malware, but I did at least see where I went wrong and where I could have gone right. But it really is a tough blend to get right. It lacks a middle ground.

5 hours ago, Cuz05 said:

In the good captains defence, I agree on good LAAT piloting. Range control should get you the FC arc you want. A varied approach pattern, using the obstacles, asks them if they really want to spend the next 2/3 turns hunting it down, while the rest of your list does what it wants. Then you have all sorts of standard double arc choices, turn away, turn in, fast/slow fwd, stop etc. Ramming through obstacles is a big option that shouldn't be discounted. Keeping arc coverage and presenting difficult target choices are the primary concern.

It's a pricey source of rerolls if it isn't an overwhelming influence on enemy positioning and/or just gets splat on the joust and follow through.

The hardest part of the not-joust is how bloody long it takes to turn back into combat if they decide it's too costly to try and finish it. That's the main reason I'm not terribly keen on Eta's plus LAAT. You can make it a hard, or poor target with its positioning, while keeping FC active, but not for very long against somebody that is happy for it to go somewhere else while they corral your fragile fighters.

I had major planning problems when running it with 3x CLT vs Malware, but I did at least see where I went wrong and where I could have gone right. But it really is a tough blend to get right. It lacks a middle ground.

Yeah, i was being needlessly harsh, sorry Cpt ObVus.

But i do agree with what you said here. I think it's really important to reinforce the idea that FC has the same value, wether it's range 3 obstructed or range 1 bullseye. This means that you should take advantage of your side arc to skirt around the engagement area, preferably behind obstacles (especially if you are hound with needy patient jedi). However, i expect my opponent to chase after my LAAT if he wants to, and i think any good list should make sure that there are no obvious targets for the opponent (this is also why i think LAAT Aces and Tavson Aces lists have been struggling so much), especially when they all give (about) the same points.

5 hours ago, LeMightyASP said:

Yeah, i was being needlessly harsh, sorry Cpt ObVus.

But i do agree with what you said here. I think it's really important to reinforce the idea that FC has the same value, wether it's range 3 obstructed or range 1 bullseye. This means that you should take advantage of your side arc to skirt around the engagement area, preferably behind obstacles (especially if you are hound with needy patient jedi). However, i expect my opponent to chase after my LAAT if he wants to, and i think any good list should make sure that there are no obvious targets for the opponent (this is also why i think LAAT Aces and Tavson Aces lists have been struggling so much), especially when they all give (about) the same points.

No worries, friend.

I think my point was taken, eventually... that the LAAT is a big lumbering target, yes, but you ought not just serve it up on a sliver platter, and if you’re careful with it, it can take a bit of doing to take one out, which ought to create counter-punching opportunities. Worth it? Maybe, maybe not. I was just saying that in the general space of generic Jedi + LAAT’s, Shaak Ti and a couple of Generals probably do just as well as three 7B Knights, and I think the relative value of a LAAT in either list isn’t very different.

Switching back to that subject, I suppose it might be sort of interesting to try out one General and one Knight, see which one survives more easily, does more damage, needs more support, etc... though I suspect that there’ll be a slight loss of efficacy simply from mixing the ship types.

2 minutes ago, Cpt ObVus said:

No worries, friend.

I think my point was taken, eventually... that the LAAT is a big lumbering target, yes, but you ought not just serve it up on a sliver platter, and if you’re careful with it, it can take a bit of doing to take one out, which ought to create counter-punching opportunities. Worth it? Maybe, maybe not. I was just saying that in the general space of generic Jedi + LAAT’s, Shaak Ti and a couple of Generals probably do just as well as three 7B Knights, and I think the relative value of a LAAT in either list isn’t very different.

Switching back to that subject, I suppose it might be sort of interesting to try out one General and one Knight, see which one survives more easily, does more damage, needs more support, etc... though I suspect that there’ll be a slight loss of efficacy simply from mixing the ship types.

Yeah i don't think we should look at the pieces individually, but instead evaluate the whole list. I'd probably start with 3 knights, and if they were decent, switch the 3rd one for those named jedi we've been talking about.

For Actis lists, i still don't like stealth device, but i've noticed that if you keep every ship naked, you can replace 2 of the generals for Obi and Ani and still give them both patience to use with Hound. Might be worth giving it a shot.

"Hound" (50)
Ship total: 50 Half Points: 25 Threshold: 5

Anakin Skywalker (Eta-2) (56)
Patience (2)

Ship total: 58 Half Points: 29 Threshold: 2

Obi-Wan Kenobi (Eta-2) (49)
Patience (2)

Ship total: 51 Half Points: 26 Threshold: 2

Jedi General (41)
Ship total: 41 Half Points: 21 Threshold: 2


Total: 200