Was watching Hexiled stream the other day and realized that this is now possible:

212th Battalion Pilot (49)
Shield Upgrade (4)

Ship total: 53 Half Points: 27 Threshold: 6

Jedi Knight (37)
Delta-7B (12)

Ship total: 49 Half Points: 25 Threshold: 3

Jedi Knight (37)
Delta-7B (12)

Ship total: 49 Half Points: 25 Threshold: 3

Jedi Knight (37)
Delta-7B (12)

Ship total: 49 Half Points: 25 Threshold: 3


Total: 200

Seems very simple, but quite fun! The Knights can cover a lot of ground due to FTC, the LAAT helps them punch harder and every ship is fairly beefy so I don't think it's particularly weak to anything and might be a good flexible list

Warthog being 1 point too expensive for this makes me sad lol. Maybe go thread chasers over the shield upgrade to help the deltas pack a heavier punch?

25 minutes ago, j_man_04 said:

Warthog being 1 point too expensive for this makes me sad lol. Maybe go thread chasers over the shield upgrade to help the deltas pack a heavier punch?

I think extra rerolls are not worth it when you're already using a LAAT with 3 other ships, and the shield/hull upgrade atleast lets you jump over the halfpoint threshold on the LAAT. Tried to search for better upgrades, but nothing seemed better. Maybe someone else finds something that's worth it.

3 hours ago, LeMightyASP said:

I think extra rerolls are not worth it when you're already using a LAAT with 3 other ships, and the shield/hull upgrade atleast lets you jump over the halfpoint threshold on the LAAT. Tried to search for better upgrades, but nothing seemed better. Maybe someone else finds something that's worth it.

Those Laat re-rolls go away quick and you’re likely not hitting anything with two dice anyways on the Laat. So may as well get some benefit out of its attack. I love it on warthog + 4 V’s. Not sure it’s better than the shield but it’s an option.

6 hours ago, j_man_04 said:

Warthog being 1 point too expensive for this makes me sad lol. Maybe go thread chasers over the shield upgrade to help the deltas pack a heavier punch?

The whole point of the LAAT is that locks aren’t necessary, because you have the Fire Convergence mods. Thread Tracers seem a waste. Give him an Ion Missile, if you must give him something.

8 hours ago, Cpt ObVus said:

The whole point of the LAAT is that locks aren’t necessary, because you have the Fire Convergence mods. Thread Tracers seem a waste. Give him an Ion Missile, if you must give him something.

Have you flown the LAAT much? Those charges can get limiting. So if you use them both, next round you only have one. And you’re capped by two rerolls. Also, I agree the lock *action* isn’t necessary but if you can get a lock passively it’s always good to have. It doesn’t mean you have to spend it. The LAAT is usually the first thing to go so hold onto the locks you get for the end game and use the LAAT rerolls while you can.

My main point though is you can roll two dice primary with very little chance of hitting anything or you can add a third dice that can help give your squad options. The shield upgrade seems like lost points to me since the LAAT will almost always been the main target because it’s a lot of points backed by low agility and a poor dial.

23 minutes ago, j_man_04 said:

Have you flown the LAAT much? Those charges can get limiting. So if you use them both, next round you only have one. And you’re capped by two rerolls. Also, I agree the lock *action* isn’t necessary but if you can get a lock passively it’s always good to have. It doesn’t mean you have to spend it. The LAAT is usually the first thing to go so hold onto the locks you get for the end game and use the LAAT rerolls while you can.

My main point though is you can roll two dice primary with very little chance of hitting anything or you can add a third dice that can help give your squad options. The shield upgrade seems like lost points to me since the LAAT will almost always been the main target because it’s a lot of points backed by low agility and a poor dial.

I have used the LAAT, yes. I never found myself needing more charges than it had to give in the games I played with it. Maybe I rolled better than average. Don’t remember.

Anyway, your case for Thread Tracers is decent, but I’d probably go for the Ion Missiles anyway.

Also, more broadly, this list doesn’t quite do it for me. I think I’d want at least one Ace-y, high-initiative guy in there, so I would personally drop one 7B and the Shield Upgrade from the LAAT, and add something like Plo Koon with Calibrated Laser Targeting and Extreme Maneuvers, or Obi-Wan (Delta-7) with just CLT, Mace Windu with CLT, or one of the new Eta-2 pilots (Aayla, Obi-Wan, or Shaak Ti all look good, and maybe even Yoda... at i3, he isn’t an Ace-type, but he could be great alongside your lower Force Jedi Knights, and he matches initiative with them), with any of a variety of upgrade suites which add up to 53 or fewer points. There are tons of options.

EDIT: In a similar vein to Yoda, Shaak Ti with Patience looks like a neat addition here, and might really set up your 7B’s for some big turns. Dunno if it’s great, but it caught my eye as really interesting. For extra spice, replace the 212th Battalion Pilot for Hound, and pull the Depletes from Patience off of Shaak Ti!

16 hours ago, j_man_04 said:

Warthog being 1 point too expensive for this makes me sad lol. Maybe go thread chasers over the shield upgrade to help the deltas pack a heavier punch?

In fact, switching out one of the 7B’s for a replacement costing 52 points could also cover the upgrade to Warthog.

1 hour ago, Cpt ObVus said:

I have used the LAAT, yes. I never found myself needing more charges than it had to give in the games I played with it. Maybe I rolled better than average. Don’t remember.

Anyway, your case for Thread Tracers is decent, but I’d probably go for the Ion Missiles anyway.

Also, more broadly, this list doesn’t quite do it for me. I think I’d want at least one Ace-y, high-initiative guy in there, so I would personally drop one 7B and the Shield Upgrade from the LAAT, and add something like Plo Koon with Calibrated Laser Targeting and Extreme Maneuvers, or Obi-Wan (Delta-7) with just CLT, Mace Windu with CLT, or one of the new Eta-2 pilots (Aayla, Obi-Wan, or Shaak Ti all look good, and maybe even Yoda... at i3, he isn’t an Ace-type, but he could be great alongside your lower Force Jedi Knights, and he matches initiative with them), with any of a variety of upgrade suites which add up to 53 or fewer points. There are tons of options.

EDIT: In a similar vein to Yoda, Shaak Ti with Patience looks like a neat addition here, and might really set up your 7B’s for some big turns. Dunno if it’s great, but it caught my eye as really interesting. For extra spice, replace the 212th Battalion Pilot for Hound, and pull the Depletes from Patience off of Shaak Ti!

This idea is really interesting, as some of the Jedi are really good at supporting the Knights. So maybe instead of 3 Knights + LAAT, we should aim for 2 Knights + Support Jedi + LAAT.

Personally, i like Aayla more than Shaakti, because she has higher initiative and her ability combos really well with the Knights, who will often have force + focus.

This is what i would fly:

Aayla Secura (51)
Brilliant Evasion (2)

Ship total: 53 Half Points: 27 Threshold: 2

212th Battalion Pilot (49)
Ship total: 49 Half Points: 25 Threshold: 5

Jedi Knight (37)
Delta-7B (12)

Ship total: 49 Half Points: 25 Threshold: 3

Jedi Knight (37)
Delta-7B (12)

Ship total: 49 Half Points: 25 Threshold: 3


Total: 200

1 hour ago, LeMightyASP said:

This idea is really interesting, as some of the Jedi are really good at supporting the Knights. So maybe instead of 3 Knights + LAAT, we should aim for 2 Knights + Support Jedi + LAAT.

Personally, i like Aayla more than Shaakti, because she has higher initiative and her ability combos really well with the Knights, who will often have force + focus.

This is what i would fly:

Aayla Secura (51)
Brilliant Evasion (2)

Ship total: 53 Half Points: 27 Threshold: 2

212th Battalion Pilot (49)
Ship total: 49 Half Points: 25 Threshold: 5

Jedi Knight (37)
Delta-7B (12)

Ship total: 49 Half Points: 25 Threshold: 3

Jedi Knight (37)
Delta-7B (12)

Ship total: 49 Half Points: 25 Threshold: 3


Total: 200

Yep, that looks totally solid. I think the only reason I leaned away from Aayla is because I have tried flying her (don’t remember the exact configuration of upgrades, but I kept her fairly lean), and found that while she was a very decent i5, her pool of just two Force was too shallow to supply her wide range of abilities, moves, and actions, despite me trying very hard to be frugal with her Force. Patience would help, I imagine, and perhaps Brilliant Evasion might do well for conserving her power. But I’m not sure I trust her as the support piece here.

Shaak Ti allows the Knights to move in ahead of her, with an Evade or Focus carried over from the previous turn, rerolls from the LAAT, a Force point of their own, and an action of their own as well. If she aids both of them on the alpha strike, she’s also wiped out on Force, but she’s cheap enough that you can afford Patience, and you can also pass the Deplete off to Hound.

Even better, this actually leaves 6 (!) points free to use as you please. Outmaneuver for Shaak Ti? Cody & Rex for the LAAT? Lots of options. Just another take.

Shaak Ti, Knight, Knight, Hound

(44) Shaak Ti [Eta-2 Actis]
(2) Patience
Points: 46

(37) Jedi Knight [Delta-7 Aethersprite]
(12) Delta-7B
Points: 49

(37) Jedi Knight [Delta-7 Aethersprite]
(12) Delta-7B
Points: 49

(50) "Hound" [Laat/i Gunship]
Points: 50

Total points: 194

I firmly believe Shaak Ti is the better support for 2 7B Knights.

7Bs, in my experience, the Knights really never have a force, because you're routinely spending it on boosting/rolling after the maneuver. With Shaak Ti, they can take an Evade the previous turn, focus, and have rerolls from Hound.

What about Jedi Generals instead of knights? You get full use out of the LAAT'S ability while also having 3 green and white evade

1 hour ago, Nyxen said:

What about Jedi Generals instead of knights? You get full use out of the LAAT'S ability while also having 3 green and white evade

They’re also only 41 points, as opposed to the 49 of a 7B Jedi Knight. But they definitely aren’t as beefy.

Still, adding a Stealth Device to an Eta-2 Jedi General is exactly the same price (49 points) as fielding a Delta-7B Jedi Knight, and the General has numerous advantages... better upgrade slots, higher initiative (4 instead of 3), another Force charge (2, to the Knight’s 1), 4 defense dice until the Stealth Device gets burned, and 3 thereafter, as opposed to only 2 greens for the 7B... I mean, even just the extra Force charge puts it head and shoulders above the Delta-7B. I struggle to think why one would even consider a 7B Knight over an Eta-2 General with Stealth Device. A Calibrated Laser Targeting Knight? Sure, but they’re 12 points cheaper!

7 hours ago, Cpt ObVus said:

I struggle to think why one would even consider a 7B Knight over an Eta-2 General with Stealth Device.

Main reason that occurs to me is Hyperspace. 7B Knights seem to have snuck in under my radar there and I think I'm liking the option.

I think I go with Patience Shaak Ti and Hound. Generals vs Knights comes down to how much you like variance. With Shaak able to prime a couple knights, shove off the deplete to Hound and get back up to full force, I think the 7Bs offer a dependable trade, vs the risk/reward of 2 Generals. Which may cost you on the positioning of the 2 support pieces.

Shaak or an I5 is a definite choice. Likely comes down to whether you want to lean on the generic Jedi for early punch, or on the ace to close the deal.

For example, maximum HS legal 7B lean-

Laat/i Gunship - •“Hound” - 50 •“Hound” - Vigilant Tracker (50)

Eta-2 Actis - •Shaak Ti - 46 •Shaak Ti - Compassionate Mentor (44) Patience (2)

Delta-7 Aethersprite - Jedi Knight - 52 Jedi Knight - (37) Heightened Perception (3) Delta-7B (12)

Delta-7 Aethersprite - Jedi Knight - 52 Jedi Knight - (37) Heightened Perception (3) Delta-7B (12)

Total: 200

Interestingly, Shaak could take a Tractor Beam.... But I quite like the idea of 2x I7 double mod 3/4 die attacks.

The OP list. I ran the LAAT with 3 Jedi and always used the maximum allotment of FC rerolls. Free locks is certainly a thing worth having, but I'd probably look at sources that dont cost an attack. Wolfpack or Sync Console come to mind.

The strength of FC and 3 die attacks means the LAAT is pretty much guaranteed to give up at least half points, no matter what you put on it, the benefit of Shield Upgrade is likely only in keeping an early debilitating crit off it. Which can be very useful, but I think I'd be looking at something with more squad utility.

9 hours ago, Cpt ObVus said:

They’re also only 41 points, as opposed to the 49 of a 7B Jedi Knight. But they definitely aren’t as beefy.

Still, adding a Stealth Device to an Eta-2 Jedi General is exactly the same price (49 points) as fielding a Delta-7B Jedi Knight, and the General has numerous advantages... better upgrade slots, higher initiative (4 instead of 3), another Force charge (2, to the Knight’s 1), 4 defense dice until the Stealth Device gets burned, and 3 thereafter, as opposed to only 2 greens for the 7B... I mean, even just the extra Force charge puts it head and shoulders above the Delta-7B. I struggle to think why one would even consider a 7B Knight over an Eta-2 General with Stealth Device. A Calibrated Laser Targeting Knight? Sure, but they’re 12 points cheaper!

For starters, double the health. But most importantly I think, it's the consistent 3 die primary. You can't really have a list based around 3 mid initiative bullseye based pilots, that can't deal damage outside that bullseye. The reason why Nantex spam was so dominant was because there was 6 of them. 3 Jedi General will not push enough damage.

Also, Knights have a tremendous advantage against Swarms because of FTC, which Generals don't have. The extra force charge doesn't mean that much when both of them regen 1 per turn.

Also, don't run stealth device on a non-Aayla list, it's just not worth it

4 hours ago, LeMightyASP said:

For starters, double the health. But most importantly I think, it's the consistent 3 die primary. You can't really have a list based around 3 mid initiative bullseye based pilots, that can't deal damage outside that bullseye. The reason why Nantex spam was so dominant was because there was 6 of them. 3 Jedi General will not push enough damage.

Also, Knights have a tremendous advantage against Swarms because of FTC, which Generals don't have. The extra force charge doesn't mean that much when both of them regen 1 per turn.

Also, don't run stealth device on a non-Aayla list, it's just not worth it

I think I disagree with most of this.

Double the health, yes. But rolling 2 defense dice vs. 4 defense dice is a big downgrade to survivability. And I definitely would consider using a Stealth Device on Generals; in fact, it’s one of the very few places I would ever use Stealth Device and expect it to last more than one defense, because A) 4 is a lot of Agility, and B) the force charges will probably keep it active longer than you think.

The bullseye is not that hard to line up on a ship with a Systems Phase move and purple turnarounds. And they CAN deal damage outside the bullseye; they’re still the equal of and Vulture droid or TIE Fighter. And those ships kill things all the time.

And I’ll say it again: that extra Force is very important. It’s good on a General, and not having it limits the Knight.

4 minutes ago, Cpt ObVus said:

I think I disagree with most of this.

Double the health, yes. But rolling 2 defense dice vs. 4 defense dice is a big downgrade to survivability. And I definitely would consider using a Stealth Device on Generals; in fact, it’s one of the very few places I would ever use Stealth Device and expect it to last more than one defense, because A) 4 is a lot of Agility, and B) the force charges will probably keep it active longer than you think.

The bullseye is not that hard to line up on a ship with a Systems Phase move and purple turnarounds. And they CAN deal damage outside the bullseye; they’re still the equal of and Vulture droid or TIE Fighter. And those ships kill things all the time.

And I’ll say it again: that extra Force is very important. It’s good on a General, and not having it limits the Knight.

Here's the issue with Stealth Device Generals: If you want to preserve the Device (which you DO, becuase it cost you 8 points) then you will be taking an evade action. You will also have to utilize your force to defend, because with just an evade there's roughly a 60% chance you lose it to a couple of focused t-65s. Now, let's say you're lucky and only have to spend 1 force to defend. Do you spend the other to line up the bullseye with IC (remember, you spent your action evading) or do you mod offense?

The part where you talk about vultures and tie fighters makes me think you didn't understand what i tried to explain with the spamtex. The advantage of these ships is NUMBERS, and 3 Generals can't compare. The typical tie swarm has SIX tie fighters, half of which have 3 attack die and all of them have focus + 1 reroll, the typical vulture swarm has SEVEN vultures + some other threat, and all the droids can share calculates. Spamtex also has SIX bullseye arcs, which is DOUBLE the bullseyes you have on this list. Remember, getting bullseye shots is as much your reponsibility as your opponent's.

But here is the BIGGEST reason why i don't think Generals work well with this list idea: you may have 4 die + 2 force + 1 evade on your jedi, but what about the LAAT? It has only 1 agility and is slow as ****, so what stops your opponent from just ignoring your tokened up jedi and focusing down your LAAT?

But yeah, i agree, 2 force is better than 1.

2 hours ago, LeMightyASP said:

Here's the issue with Stealth Device Generals: If you want to preserve the Device (which you DO, becuase it cost you 8 points) then you will be taking an evade action. You will also have to utilize your force to defend, because with just an evade there's roughly a 60% chance you lose it to a couple of focused t-65s. Now, let's say you're lucky and only have to spend 1 force to defend. Do you spend the other to line up the bullseye with IC (remember, you spent your action evading) or do you mod offense?

The part where you talk about vultures and tie fighters makes me think you didn't understand what i tried to explain with the spamtex. The advantage of these ships is NUMBERS, and 3 Generals can't compare. The typical tie swarm has SIX tie fighters, half of which have 3 attack die and all of them have focus + 1 reroll, the typical vulture swarm has SEVEN vultures + some other threat, and all the droids can share calculates. Spamtex also has SIX bullseye arcs, which is DOUBLE the bullseyes you have on this list. Remember, getting bullseye shots is as much your reponsibility as your opponent's.

But here is the BIGGEST reason why i don't think Generals work well with this list idea: you may have 4 die + 2 force + 1 evade on your jedi, but what about the LAAT? It has only 1 agility and is slow as ****, so what stops your opponent from just ignoring your tokened up jedi and focusing down your LAAT?

But yeah, i agree, 2 force is better than 1.

Again, all very fine points.

The whole point of using Shaak Ti is to often not NEED to Evade, because you’re carrying an Evade token into combat from your previous turn.

SOMEtimes I’m sure I’d end up using another Evade action with the Generals, but not always, maybe not even usually. Sometimes you just have to trust in your 4 greens and 2 Force (1 if you had to Tallon Roll or something), and possibly the Evade from the previous turn... and sometimes the Device burns out. It happens. If it’s an unacceptable risk at 8 points, maybe look into Elusive or Brilliant Evasion (or both!) instead. Mobility is always your best defense with ships like this anyway.

As for the LAAT getting killed... I mean, maybe it gets killed. I don’t have that problem a lot, myself. 10 health and 1 Agility with the option to Reinforce on a critical turn usually keeps it safe enough for long enough. But it isn’t indestructible. Hopefully you can punish them for going after it with your Jedi, and hopefully it takes them 2-3 turns. Every turn they’re shooting your flying brick, they’re not shooting your glass cannons.

I mean, maybe you prefer 7B Knights to Stealth Device Generals. I don’t think you’re crazy for that. I just think I’d feel safer hiding behind a ton of green dice and modifications than I would hiding behind a few Shield points, and that’s really the central issue. Again, Shaak Ti’s entire job here is to ensure that her friends are all tokened up heading into combat, and Hound’s entire job is to allow her to do that, and to make sure you don’t need locks on offense. It’s the sort of list which has all the individual pieces leaning on each other, and maybe you don’t dig that. 7B’s are (arguably) more like independent operators, and maybe that’s more your speed. I just feel like the inclusion of Shaak Ti makes the Generals more desirable, though they are somewhat more dependent on her to remain effective.

1 hour ago, Cpt ObVus said:

Again, all very fine points.

The whole point of using Shaak Ti is to often not NEED to Evade, because you’re carrying an Evade token into combat from your previous turn.

SOMEtimes I’m sure I’d end up using another Evade action with the Generals, but not always, maybe not even usually. Sometimes you just have to trust in your 4 greens and 2 Force (1 if you had to Tallon Roll or something), and possibly the Evade from the previous turn... and sometimes the Device burns out. It happens. If it’s an unacceptable risk at 8 points, maybe look into Elusive or Brilliant Evasion (or both!) instead. Mobility is always your best defense with ships like this anyway.

As for the LAAT getting killed... I mean, maybe it gets killed. I don’t have that problem a lot, myself. 10 health and 1 Agility with the option to Reinforce on a critical turn usually keeps it safe enough for long enough. But it isn’t indestructible. Hopefully you can punish them for going after it with your Jedi, and hopefully it takes them 2-3 turns. Every turn they’re shooting your flying brick, they’re not shooting your glass cannons.

I mean, maybe you prefer 7B Knights to Stealth Device Generals. I don’t think you’re crazy for that. I just think I’d feel safer hiding behind a ton of green dice and modifications than I would hiding behind a few Shield points, and that’s really the central issue. Again, Shaak Ti’s entire job here is to ensure that her friends are all tokened up heading into combat, and Hound’s entire job is to allow her to do that, and to make sure you don’t need locks on offense. It’s the sort of list which has all the individual pieces leaning on each other, and maybe you don’t dig that. 7B’s are (arguably) more like independent operators, and maybe that’s more your speed. I just feel like the inclusion of Shaak Ti makes the Generals more desirable, though they are somewhat more dependent on her to remain effective.

I just feel stupid for taking evade actions with my 3 agi ships when the opponent can just chase down my 50 point 1 agility ship. But maybe you don't.

I just think that the LAAT doesn't gel with 3 Jedi Generals. Double Jedi Ace + LAAT? Love those lists, but this isn't it. In most cases, we're not avoiding arcs, we're trying to push as much damage as we can, and i think that 7B accomplishes that much better than the General can.

For the record, i'm not opposed to using Shaak Ti with 7B (or any other named Jedi over the 3rd Knight) but she kinda works like a reverse alpha-strike, being very protective on the 1st engagement. Remember that the generic general gets 1 force per turn, and he has to choose between using it for IC, Talon-rolling, modding defense and modding offense. Shaak Ti offers a 5th option, but still only gets 1 per turn (2 if you count Hound + patience). You should probably temper your expectations.

On a side note, i've been looking for a good comparison for the 7B Knight and i think i found it: Black Sun Ace (Kihraxz) costs 38 points. For 11 more points, the Knight gets slightly better stats, a slightly better dial and an integrated fifth brother (currently costing 12 points) with the bonus of FTC.

11 hours ago, Cuz05 said:

7Bs offer a dependable trade, vs the risk/reward of 2 Generals

Not to get in the way of your discussion, but I don't really see it as a competition for best option between 2 similar choices.

7B makes those Delta's into fancy X Wings. Generals are supernatural TIE Fighters. They have very different profiles, so what you're looking at is a stylistic choice that drastically changes how the list will be played.

Which is best depends entirely on your game plan and how you intend to lay out your forces.

I like 7B here because it allows you to draw things away from your ace and support. Tank some much mitigated damage thanks to Shaak. Then jam the LAAT into the mix, recycle the Jedi and poach with the Eta.

If that goes well, you should be up. Then you can sell any of the 4 and attempt to close out with the others.

With Generals, regardless of the mods, you're either risking an expensive blank out, or making the LAAT an obvious 1st target. Which is gonna reduce its time on table quite drastically. It's not better or worse, but it's a lot more finickity and has less inbuilt reliability.

You're just never gonna keep everything out of arc and you're not going to ride average dice in every single game.

7B gives you some flexibility on match ups and a vaguely reliable damage clock. Generals give you 3 semi-aces and a brick. Either can work, but they're not really the same.

I've not actually been at all inspired by pure LAAT plus Eta lists so far. The Eta, to me, wants to be with something that can lead ALL the opposing guns a bit of dance for half the game at the very least, rather than 3 turns absolute max. OR, something that's going to just take massive chunks out of their list.

Possibly unless you're going full nonsense double ace and only need a few turns of fun before the table flips one way or the other.

4 minutes ago, Cuz05 said:

Not to get in the way of your discussion, but I don't really see it as a competition for best option between 2 similar choices.

7B makes those Delta's into fancy X Wings. Generals are supernatural TIE Fighters. They have very different profiles, so what you're looking at is a stylistic choice that drastically changes how the list will be played.

Which is best depends entirely on your game plan and how you intend to lay out your forces.

I like 7B here because it allows you to draw things away from your ace and support. Tank some much mitigated damage thanks to Shaak. Then jam the LAAT into the mix, recycle the Jedi and poach with the Eta.

If that goes well, you should be up. Then you can sell any of the 4 and attempt to close out with the others.

With Generals, regardless of the mods, you're either risking an expensive blank out, or making the LAAT an obvious 1st target. Which is gonna reduce its time on table quite drastically. It's not better or worse, but it's a lot more finickity and has less inbuilt reliability.

You're just never gonna keep everything out of arc and you're not going to ride average dice in every single game.

7B gives you some flexibility on match ups and a vaguely reliable damage clock. Generals give you 3 semi-aces and a brick. Either can work, but they're not really the same.

I've not actually been at all inspired by pure LAAT plus Eta lists so far. The Eta, to me, wants to be with something that can lead ALL the opposing guns a bit of dance for half the game at the very least, rather than 3 turns absolute max. OR, something that's going to just take massive chunks out of their list.

Possibly unless you're going full nonsense double ace and only need a few turns of fun before the table flips one way or the other.

That's more or less what I was trying to say (maybe not very well). The ETA requires a certain patience (heh) and finesse that a LAAT list just can't afford.

Once you put a LAAT on the table, you're going to get a joust, and the ETA don't want that.

This is not to say that the Knight is perfect. I don't really fancy paying for 5th bro on every generic knife fighter I play, but that's as close as you get to an X-wing in the Republic. The Arcs are too far with the LAAT, and you can only fit 3 anyway. Sync console + missile torrents aren't quite there yet either, I feel.

48 minutes ago, LeMightyASP said:

I just feel stupid for taking evade actions with my 3 agi ships when the opponent can just chase down my 50 point 1 agility ship. But maybe you don't.

[snip]

For the record, i'm not opposed to using Shaak Ti with 7B (or any other named Jedi over the 3rd Knight) but she kinda works like a reverse alpha-strike, being very protective on the 1st engagement. Remember that the generic general gets 1 force per turn, and he has to choose between using it for IC, Talon-rolling, modding defense and modding offense. Shaak Ti offers a 5th option, but still only gets 1 per turn (2 if you count Hound + patience). You should probably temper your expectations.

Reading your criticisms, it’s not entirely apparent that you understand Shaak It’s purpose in the list. She makes it so that you *don’t need to evade*.

Here’s the thing: the only turn you’re probably Evading is the turn *before* engagement. Shaak-Ti carries over the Evade tokens. Hound helps her use Patience to take her Strain away, and the Jedi can enter combat on the following turn with Evade/Focus/probably at least one Force. And Shaak Ti is full up on Force again, so can carry over up to two unspent tokens again.

4 minutes ago, LeMightyASP said:

Once you put a LAAT on the table, you're going to get a joust, and the ETA don't want that.

I think you and I fly very differently. It is not at all a given that LAAT = jousting.

1 minute ago, Cpt ObVus said:

I think you and I fly very differently. It is not at all a given that LAAT = jousting.

You can arcdodge with a LAAT? Teach me please

5 minutes ago, Cpt ObVus said:

Here’s the thing: the only turn you’re probably Evading is the turn *before* engagement. Shaak-Ti carries over the Evade tokens. Hound helps her use Patience to take her Strain away, and the Jedi can enter combat on the following turn with Evade/Focus/probably at least one Force. And Shaak Ti is full up on Force again, so can carry over up to two unspent tokens again.

I know how Shaak Ti works. Like i said, reverse alpha strike. Hard to make it last very long. And you may carry your evade to the next turn, but nothing stops your opponent from just shooting the LAAT and leaving your tokens unspent

3 hours ago, LeMightyASP said:

You can arcdodge with a LAAT? Teach me please

I know how Shaak Ti works. Like i said, reverse alpha strike. Hard to make it last very long. And you may carry your evade to the next turn, but nothing stops your opponent from just shooting the LAAT and leaving your tokens unspent

Range control keeps your LAAT out of the line of fire. And if they shoot the LAAT instead of a Jedi, it’s a win.

Look, there’s not black and white choice between arc-dodging and jousting. They are not opposites. Jousting involves a “**** the torpedoes, full speed ahead” approach, and arc-dodging is a defensive maneuver, but there’s also such a thing as not charging straight into the enemy’s teeth, yet staying in the fight, supporting your friendlies. That’s what the LAAT should do. That’s partly why it has a turret; so it can support from a flanking position. I welcome long range shots on my LAAT all day. I don’t call that a joust.

If you don’t like the idea, or you think the 7B does a better job, fine. But it really sounds like you’re attempting to evaluate my list while also assuming one would fly it in the most obtuse and least effective way, and that doesn’t seem entirely fair.

In my experience, LAAT’s are tough, tanky, and not typically worth the time it takes to bring one down. But they must be flown intelligently, as must almost anything.