5 hours ago, wurms said:

You dont think networked calculations on 3 agility is too strong for 31pts or less. The survivability of a networked calc Tri-Fighter, with basically 5+ calculates vs a 1 focus interceptor is enough for the price increase, imo.

I think 34pts woulda been fine if 6 in a list was found to be too strong in testing.

Networked Calc is only better than a focus if there are multiple attacks coming in. Otherwise, the first Networked calc spend is usually equal to a focus action (inherent 0 value). Since the Tri-Fighter has 3 agility, its a reasonably high chance to get another focus result to use Networked on. Therefore, you could consider it a free calculate, approx worth 2 points (with a free focus worth about 3). On the other hand, it also has 3 health like a Tie fighter, which somehow seems more flimsy than the Vulture with also 3 health, so its time alive is generally quite short for 150%+ the cost of a vulture. Therefore, I would consider this at best 0-1 points, and I'd suggest its probably closer to 0 points of value considering these cost more health wise. The cost also should be noted is 3 attack dice.

Therefore, I suggest the Tri-fighter is likely closer to 31+(2or3), at best 34 points, so at least 1 point too safe.

I would also like to point out that pure spam I1 Ints have basically not won anything nor have been heard of as a good list imo, which suggests that alone the Tie Int at 31 might not even be good value. With Sloane may be slightly more worth its cost. (Arguably question here is whether Sloane should go up a few points, or leave that value baked into the I1 Tie Int). If the Tie Int is worth only 30 points, then the Tri Fighter should go down too.

I doubt FFG will keep the Tri-Fighter where it is, its just padded at release just in case of brokenness. Should go down in next points change. (Then again, with the shift to atomic games, who knows what the future brings, DOOM!)

Also agree that independent calc should likely be 1 point.

Should Treacherous also be 1 point? Considering its extreme niche of eclipse required triggering.

I've been mainling CIS like Heroine since launch and I find it incredibly weird that people are finding this ship in any way overcosted. *shrugs* I've put them on the table with a few lists and god do these things annoy people. 3 red and 3 green with Networked is really nice.

18 minutes ago, MasterShake2 said:

I've been mainling CIS like Heroine since launch and I find it incredibly weird that people are finding this ship in any way overcosted. *shrugs* I've put them on the table with a few lists and god do these things annoy people. 3 red and 3 green with Networked is really nice.

How are you flying them? Alone? Packs? Flankers?

2 minutes ago, PaulRuddSays said:

How are you flying them? Alone? Packs? Flankers?

Depends on the list TBH. Hyenas, Vultures and Tris have very similar dials, so you can just go roger salad and use them as a beefier and harder hitting ship in the swarm. I've also used them backing up Zam in a group of three. Boost -> Calc is good for flanking especially if you use boosters to slam past and lock things. Also Roll -> Evade is monumentally annoying when you have multiple calcs to pull. 1hp Tris can stay on the table for a while.

21 minutes ago, MasterShake2 said:

Depends on the list TBH. Hyenas, Vultures and Tris have very similar dials, so you can just go roger salad and use them as a beefier and harder hitting ship in the swarm. I've also used them backing up Zam in a group of three. Boost -> Calc is good for flanking especially if you use boosters to slam past and lock things. Also Roll -> Evade is monumentally annoying when you have multiple calcs to pull. 1hp Tris can stay on the table for a while.

I'm trying to figure out good lists for CIS that incorporate these. Would you mind sharing a list that you've found to be successful?

3 minutes ago, player655164 said:

I'm trying to figure out good lists for CIS that incorporate these. Would you mind sharing a list that you've found to be successful?

I think in particular the biggest advantage these have over, say, TIE Interceptors is probably their dial and maneuverability, but isn't this advantage somewhat negated by throwing them in a swarm?

2 minutes ago, player655164 said:

I'm trying to figure out good lists for CIS that incorporate these. Would you mind sharing a list that you've found to be successful?

Zam (Dooku, Title) + 3x I1 Tris

2x Fearless Predator (predator, boosters) + 3x Precise Hunters (struts) + 2x Sep Drones (struts)

First list the Tris and Zam split and then meet for the joust, second list they can flank or you can just run a 7x ship I 3 swarm with bullseye rerolls

3 minutes ago, MasterShake2 said:

Zam (Dooku, Title) + 3x I1 Tris

2x Fearless Predator (predator, boosters) + 3x Precise Hunters (struts) + 2x Sep Drones (struts)

First list the Tris and Zam split and then meet for the joust, second list they can flank or you can just run a 7x ship I 3 swarm with bullseye rerolls

hmmmm.... you might just be tempting me to grab a third tri-fighter......

I'm trying to figure out how to get two i5s + Jango to work as an Sep Ace lineup, but I like the look of that triple+Zam list too....

2 hours ago, MasterShake2 said:

Depends on the list TBH. Hyenas, Vultures and Tris have very similar dials, so you can just go roger salad and use them as a beefier and harder hitting ship in the swarm.

Two things.

First, I like the idea of just sailing them in alongside some Vultures and Hyenas. Your opponent will be forced into the uncomfortable spot of deciding whether to shoot at your most evasive piece, with the biggest gun, or go for lower priority targets which are easier to hit. And you have Networked Calculations working for you. Seems good.

Second, “Roger Salad” ought definitely to be the name of this sort of list.

2 hours ago, player655164 said:

hmmmm.... you might just be tempting me to grab a third tri-fighter......

I'm trying to figure out how to get two i5s + Jango to work as an Sep Ace lineup, but I like the look of that triple+Zam list too....

I think three might be a sweet spot for these things. Forming three of them up on one flank (for around 100-120 points), and presenting another threat from a different direction (a mass of Vultures/Hyenas? A couple of Belbullab-22’s? A single powerful ship like Slave 1 or Maul? A couple of HMP’s? Some Nantexes? Lots of possibilities!) seems like good times.

Three 3-dice guns, all with 3 Agility, and all of them can share Calculates. That’s kind of terrifying, and it’s only half a list.

Four might even be better.

Colicoid Interceptor (35)

Colicoid Interceptor (35)

Colicoid Interceptor (35)

Trade Federation Drone (20)
XX-23 S-Thread Tracers (2)

Trade Federation Drone (20)
XX-23 S-Thread Tracers (2)

Trade Federation Drone (20)
Discord Missiles (4)
Grappling Struts (1)

Trade Federation Drone (20)
Discord Missiles (4)
Grappling Struts (1)
Total: 199

Replace the ole Hyena Bombers with plasmas with the tri fighters and you got yourself a nasty list. Those tri fighters at range 1 with evade and network calc tossing 4 dice after getting locks from tracers is good.

Also, these tri-fighters have a 5 straight with boost. Great to sneak in a block from distance.

4 hours ago, wurms said:

Colicoid Interceptor (35)

Colicoid Interceptor (35)

Colicoid Interceptor (35)

Trade Federation Drone (20)
XX-23 S-Thread Tracers (2)

Trade Federation Drone (20)
XX-23 S-Thread Tracers (2)

Trade Federation Drone (20)
Discord Missiles (4)
Grappling Struts (1)

Trade Federation Drone (20)
Discord Missiles (4)
Grappling Struts (1)
Total: 199

Replace the ole Hyena Bombers with plasmas with the tri fighters and you got yourself a nasty list. Those tri fighters at range 1 with evade and network calc tossing 4 dice after getting locks from tracers is good.

Also, these tri-fighters have a 5 straight with boost. Great to sneak in a block from distance.

Do we really want I1 trifighters?

Do they really feel good as I1s? Or should we be using the higher level ones?

Also, is there any special Init level to overcome now?

I have two lists, both need to be tested and neither are probably great.

Darth Maul (65)
Hate (9)
General Grievous (3)
Thermal Detonators (3)
Hull Upgrade (3)

Ship total: 83 Half Points: 42 Threshold: 6

Fearsome Predator (38)
Intercept Booster (1)

Ship total: 39 Half Points: 20 Threshold: 2

Fearsome Predator (38)
Intercept Booster (1)

Ship total: 39 Half Points: 20 Threshold: 2

Fearsome Predator (38)
Intercept Booster (1)

Ship total: 39 Half Points: 20 Threshold: 2


Total: 200

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0: https://raithos.github.io/?f=Separatist Alliance&d=v8ZsZ200Z272X204WWW219WW339W164WWY420XWWWW366Y420XWWWW366Y420XWWWW366&sn=Unnamed Squadron&obs=

and

Darth Maul (65)
Hate (9)
General Grievous (3)
Thermal Detonators (3)

Ship total: 80 Half Points: 40 Threshold: 5

Phlac-Arphocc Prototype (41)
Intercept Booster (1)

Ship total: 42 Half Points: 21 Threshold: 2

Phlac-Arphocc Prototype (41)
Intercept Booster (1)

Ship total: 42 Half Points: 21 Threshold: 2

DBS-404 (30)
Ion Torpedoes (4)

Ship total: 34 Half Points: 17 Threshold: 3


Total: 198

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0: https://raithos.github.io/?f=Separatist Alliance&d=v8ZsZ200Z272X204WWW219WW339WWWY423XWWWW366Y423XWWWW366Y326X135WWWW&sn=Unnamed Squadron&obs=

1 hour ago, dsul413 said:

I have two lists, both need to be tested and neither are probably great.

Darth Maul (65)
Hate (9)
General Grievous (3)
Thermal Detonators (3)
Hull Upgrade (3)

Ship total: 83 Half Points: 42 Threshold: 6

Fearsome Predator (38)
Intercept Booster (1)

Ship total: 39 Half Points: 20 Threshold: 2

Fearsome Predator (38)
Intercept Booster (1)

Ship total: 39 Half Points: 20 Threshold: 2

Fearsome Predator (38)
Intercept Booster (1)

Ship total: 39 Half Points: 20 Threshold: 2


Total: 200

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0: https://raithos.github.io/?f=Separatist Alliance&d=v8ZsZ200Z272X204WWW219WW339W164WWY420XWWWW366Y420XWWWW366Y420XWWWW366&sn=Unnamed Squadron&obs=

and

Darth Maul (65)
Hate (9)
General Grievous (3)
Thermal Detonators (3)

Ship total: 80 Half Points: 40 Threshold: 5

Phlac-Arphocc Prototype (41)
Intercept Booster (1)

Ship total: 42 Half Points: 21 Threshold: 2

Phlac-Arphocc Prototype (41)
Intercept Booster (1)

Ship total: 42 Half Points: 21 Threshold: 2

DBS-404 (30)
Ion Torpedoes (4)

Ship total: 34 Half Points: 17 Threshold: 3


Total: 198

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0: https://raithos.github.io/?f=Separatist Alliance&d=v8ZsZ200Z272X204WWW219WW339WWWY423XWWWW366Y423XWWWW366Y326X135WWWW&sn=Unnamed Squadron&obs=

I mean, you do what you want, man, but no Scimitar title on Maul?(???)

Cloaking that big bastard when it’s about to get wolfpacked by enemies can be amazing. Definitely better than a Hull Upgrade. Or even Hate.

55 minutes ago, Cpt ObVus said:

I mean, you do what you want, man, but no Scimitar title on Maul?(???)

Cloaking that big bastard when it’s about to get wolfpacked by enemies can be amazing. Definitely better than a Hull Upgrade. Or even Hate.

Hate's really good. Maul is kind of a bruiser with his double attacks, and to keep that bruising power, he needs Force.

Cloak shuts off his attack, which is generally the most important thing about Maul. Might be better than the bomb, but Hate is practically stapled on for good reason.

1 minute ago, theBitterFig said:

Hate's really good. Maul is kind of a bruiser with his double attacks, and to keep that bruising power, he needs Force.

Cloak shuts off his attack, which is generally the most important thing about Maul. Might be better than the bomb, but Hate is practically stapled on for good reason.

Ok, so you drop... I dunno, anything else. Suddenly gaining two agility on the turn you’re gonna get swarmed, or even just having the *option* to do so, is really, really great. Not to mention the reposition on decloaking.

It’s like, if the Millennium Falcon had an option to skip its attack in order to gain +2 Agility at will, wouldn’t you take that for four points every single time? I would.

Specifically, I think the Thermal Detonators and Hull Upgrade from the first list can go. In the second list, just the Detonators, I guess.

1 hour ago, Cpt ObVus said:

Specifically, I think the Thermal Detonators and Hull Upgrade from the first list can go. In the second list, just the Detonators, I guess.

How do you feel about this?

I think a payload could be really good if you plan on using Scimitar so that you can still deal damage while cloaked. That only leaves 2 points, which is why I threw passive-sensors on one of the Tri-Fighters to grab a lock incase they run against a higher initiative attacker that closes in on them. Alternatively, I also considered downgrading one of the Fearsome predators to a Separatist Interceptor to get an extra point and give Maul a hull upgrade instead of putting passive sensors on a Tri-Fighter.

Darth Maul (65)
Hate (9)
General Grievous (3)
Thermal Detonators (3)
Scimitar (4)

Ship total: 84 Half Points: 42 Threshold: 5

Fearsome Predator (38)
Passive Sensors (2)

Ship total: 40 Half Points: 20 Threshold: 2

Fearsome Predator (38)
Ship total: 38 Half Points: 19 Threshold: 2

Fearsome Predator (38)
Ship total: 38 Half Points: 19 Threshold: 2


Total: 200

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0: https://raithos.github.io/?f=Separatist Alliance&d=v8ZsZ200Z272X204WWW219WW339WW216WY420XW240WWWY420XWWWWY420XWWWW&sn=Unnamed Squadron&obs=

On 12/1/2020 at 10:06 AM, Stay OT Leader said:

I really wanted to like the Tri-Fighter but I think at present it's going to disappoint quite often.

I ussually follow your stuff on line but I think you are wrong here. I have been running one with four vultures (parked on rocks) and maneuver around the rocks. I have found the trifighter to be important to the list.

ps, grievous is in the list

YASB 2.0 - Klankers (raithos.github.io)

How would spend the last three points?

3 hours ago, freakyg3 said:

I ussually follow your stuff on line but I think you are wrong here. I have been running one with four vultures (parked on rocks) and maneuver around the rocks. I have found the trifighter to be important to the list.

ps, grievous is in the list

YASB 2.0 - Klankers (raithos.github.io)

How would spend the last three points?

I like this list. I think buzzing around the ESC camping rocks sounds like a fine plan. This is a list with a good strategy and movement plan. Even though surprisingly I don't like the elements (low level I3 Tri fighter, Grevious as an I4 ace. I4+ace is like a misnomer hahaha)

Every time I play Grevious though, no one shoots him at all. Its odd, its like, his 3 die gun doesn't do enough damage. Idk if you've had that problem before.

So therefore, I would generally remove defensive upgrades and go for offensive. Outmaneuver is pretty good here.

Do you like the I3 Tri? Would the I5 be better? I would invest that way.

====

oh never mind. hyperspace.

12 hours ago, player655164 said:

How do you feel about this?

I think a payload could be really good if you plan on using Scimitar so that you can still deal damage while cloaked. That only leaves 2 points, which is why I threw passive-sensors on one of the Tri-Fighters to grab a lock incase they run against a higher initiative attacker that closes in on them. Alternatively, I also considered downgrading one of the Fearsome predators to a Separatist Interceptor to get an extra point and give Maul a hull upgrade instead of putting passive sensors on a Tri-Fighter.

Darth Maul (65)
Hate (9)
General Grievous (3)
Thermal Detonators (3)
Scimitar (4)

Ship total: 84 Half Points: 42 Threshold: 5

Fearsome Predator (38)
Passive Sensors (2)

Ship total: 40 Half Points: 20 Threshold: 2

Fearsome Predator (38)
Ship total: 38 Half Points: 19 Threshold: 2

Fearsome Predator (38)
Ship total: 38 Half Points: 19 Threshold: 2


Total: 200

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0: https://raithos.github.io/?f=Separatist Alliance&d=v8ZsZ200Z272X204WWW219WW339WW216WY420XW240WWWY420XWWWWY420XWWWW&sn=Unnamed Squadron&obs=

I dig this. Not that I’m an expert on how it would do in a highly competitive tournament environment, but on a kitchen table, it seems great!

Thoughts on Debris Gambit and Tri-fighters?

1 hour ago, Kanawolf said:

Thoughts on Debris Gambit and Tri-fighters?

sounds reasonable to me. a bit expensive though. 10% of their base cost.

Isn't Fearsome Predator's ability really bad? It's like win more if you have 3 Predators shooting one ship that they chose at the start of the game or do nothing if you have only 1-2. If you have 1 Predator strain doesn't matter, if 2 they just spend green token during the first attack. If you have 3 ships with 3 attack shooting one enemy it's already good enough and it's either low Ini generic or I don't know how did you catch an Ace in your 3 arcs at the same time.

5 hours ago, Kanawolf said:

Thoughts on Debris Gambit and Tri-fighters?

To turn your linked evade to a white evade? Probably not worth it at 4 points, but I like the creativity. Might be worth looking into if Debris Gambit ever drops in price.

3 hours ago, Boreas Mun said:

Isn't Fearsome Predator's ability really bad? It's like win more if you have 3 Predators shooting one ship that they chose at the start of the game or do nothing if you have only 1-2. If you have 1 Predator strain doesn't matter, if 2 they just spend green token during the first attack. If you have 3 ships with 3 attack shooting one enemy it's already good enough and it's either low Ini generic or I don't know how did you catch an Ace in your 3 arcs at the same time.

Not bad really. They don't need to catch an Ace in their arcs, but rather can affect what an ace does like Buzz Droids do. They create a "no-go" zone.

Also, your examples are all with the consideration that the Fearsome Prey has a green token and can/wants to spend it. If the Prey rolls 3 blanks or 3 evades, even with a focus token, that ship gets strained. If the Fearsome Predator rolls blanks on offense, the Prey still has to spend a token if they do not want to be strained. The Prey must also consider spending tokens on offense if the Predator has a shot on them. Droids are also very good at blocking a lot of space so denying that green token action is a strong possibility.

What really mitigates this ability is the i3. If they were a higher initiative, these would be a problem. I'm glad it sits on an i3, because higher initiatives might make it too good. Right now, it's fairly average on the power curve which I think is a fine place. Where I think it will shine is on the lower initiative named pilots or lower maneuverability named pilots. Ten and Braylen are good examples of heavy hitters that don't want to be Prey, despite having a higher initiative. Finn actually seems destructible to these guys.