Curious what people think about the Generic Tri-Fighter's initial prices.

Particularly the i1 Tri: https://strawpoll.com/xpb1ha52y

i3 7b Knight: 49
i2 E-Wing: 49
i1 Silencer: 48
i2 Starviper: 45
i1 Wookie: 44
i3 Tie BA: 41
i1 T70: 41
i1 Fang: 41
i4 ETA: 41
i3 CLT Knight: 39
Cookie Monster: 38 🍪
i1 X-Wing: 38
i3 Tri-Fighter: 37
i2 Kihraxz: 37
i2 Advanced x1: 36
i1 Feet: 35
i1 Tri-Fighter: 35
i1 HMP: 34
i1 RZ2A: 33
i3 Longshot: 33
i2 SF: 32
i1 Interceptor: 31
i1 Striker: 31
i1 Quadjump: 29
i3 Tie v1: 28
i1 RZ1A: 28
i2 V-Wing: 27
i1 Tie FO: 25
i1 Syck: 25

I can't believe I am saying this for a CIS ship, but the generics should probably be cheaper. The most direct comparison is the TIE Interceptor. The i1 Trifighter cost as much as the i4 Interceptor at 35 points. Perhaps FFG was trying to avoid another Nantex swarm scenario by pricing them higher.

They do have the Networked Calcs and a System Slot, but the Network is less effective when you aren't running in a block which these speedy little ship don't feel right doing.

Maybe these prices would be better:

i1 Tri-Fighter: 33

I3 Tri-Fighter: 35

No clue. On paper, the Tri-Fighter seemed pricey. 4 points more than an Alpha Interceptor: same statline, similar dial, worse actions? I3 Tri 2 points over an I4 Interceptor?

Needs way more table time, since it's really hard to know how to evaluate Networked Calculations on this kind of a ship. FFG clearly values it highly, but they've also been wrong about somethings before. Needs a lot of reps from a lot of folks to know for sure. The fact that this is an interceptor which can share tokens in a scrum might be incredibly powerful, and we'll need to see on-table geometry.

//

The other thing that strikes me: the cost curve on these seems a lot flatter than many other ships, particularly mobile 3-red, 3-green ships. +2 points for the Init bump, +1 over that for the Fearsome Predator. 6 point spread between I1 generic and I5 limited is incredibly small , particularly for a 3-red ship.

I like the pricing because I think you can see FFG telling you what to do with the ship. The I1 Colicoid is overpriced. It's *at best* equal to an Alpha Interceptor but realistically should cost less than 31. But the Phlacc-Arphocc Prototype is 41pts for an I5 which is at least a bit reasonable.

You're not supposed to be playing lots of these things like you do Vulture Droids, you're being told (via the price) to run one or two of the higher Initiative ones. I think the I5 with Predator is fine at 43pts and doesn't need anything else, and I like DIS-E47 as a solid little block of dice mods in squads where he won't be the first target.

It's not a particularly powerful ship, though. I really wanted to like the Tri-Fighter but I think at present it's going to disappoint quite often.

3 minutes ago, Stay OT Leader said:

I like the pricing because I think you can see FFG telling you what to do with the ship. The I1 Colicoid is overpriced. It's *at best* equal to an Alpha Interceptor but realistically should cost less than 31. But the Phlacc-Arphocc Prototype is 41pts for an I5 which is at least a bit reasonable.

You're not supposed to be playing lots of these things like you do Vulture Droids, you're being told (via the price) to run one or two of the higher Initiative ones. I think the I5 with Predator is fine at 43pts and doesn't need anything else, and I like DIS-E47 as a solid little block of dice mods in squads where he won't be the first target.

It's not a particularly powerful ship, though. I really wanted to like the Tri-Fighter but I think at present it's going to disappoint quite often.

If they don’t want you to run the generics that much, they could just not print them...

Honestly, Independent Calculations should cost less too.

3 minutes ago, Stay OT Leader said:

I like the pricing because I think you can see FFG telling you what to do with the ship. The I1 Colicoid is overpriced. It's *at best* equal to an Alpha Interceptor but realistically should cost less than 31. But the Phlacc-Arphocc Prototype is 41pts for an I5 which is at least a bit reasonable.

You're not supposed to be playing lots of these things like you do Vulture Droids, you're being told (via the price) to run one or two of the higher Initiative ones.

I'm going to throw my hat in the ring against this idea. If FFG wanted us to fly the ship that way, only having the i1 and i3 generic in Hyperspace seems a really, really odd way to promote that.

Additionally, this seems an odd design choice. That's like saying FFG was telling us to fly Soontir Fel because the other squints used to be overpriced. I'm certain they wanted us flying more than one TIE Interceptor pilot, as I'm certain they want us flying more than just 1 or 2 Tri-fighter pilots. If they didn't want us to fly those pilots, pricing them inefficiently seems a poor idea when you could just not release those pilots.

2 minutes ago, Matanui3 said:

Honestly, Independent Calculations should cost less too.

Yup. 4 points + stress seems a bit much for the Tri-Fighter, and downright bonkers for the Vulture or Hyena.

I don't see a single argument for Independent Calculations at 4 points. I honestly expected 1 point or even free. Maybe you could argue for adding a single vulture or hyena with Discord Missiles?

The pricing on the Tri-Fighter seems very cautious to me. Which is fine. But seems a little odd compared to the Eta and the new RZ-2's etc. A couple Tri-Fighters as flankers sounds good in theory but not sure what you pair them with? There is probably a list there but I haven't found it yet.

I think I have to agree with most of what is being said.

I've run it a few times and 41 points for the i5 seems about right. I also can't help but think that the generics are too expensive, but haven't been too annoyed by this since these ships seems to want initiative.

And yes, they would thrive much better with independent calculations, but I haven't been able to justify spending 4 points on this upgrade. I think 2, MAYBE 3 is better considering the price of stress.

I've run a group of five with boosters and crackshot a couple of times and while that's not near enough to really judge long term effectiveness, I can say it was a lot of fun. I ran them in two groups and would collapse injured ones near the healthy for the token share. I enjoy whenever a ship can feel different so they succeed there.

Next time I'll probably put tracers on a couple, and ion missiles on the rest just to see how that goes.

12 minutes ago, gamblertuba said:

I don't see a single argument for Independent Calculations at 4 points. I honestly expected 1 point or even free. Maybe you could argue for adding a single vulture or hyena with Discord Missiles?

The pricing on the Tri-Fighter seems very cautious to me. Which is fine. But seems a little odd compared to the Eta and the new RZ-2's etc. A couple Tri-Fighters as flankers sounds good in theory but not sure what you pair them with? There is probably a list there but I haven't found it yet.

I agree. I THINK 1 point or free might be a little scary when applied to an entire swarm of vultures. Imagine facing off against 6 network calculating vultures all with 2 calculates? seems brutal.

But yes, I was pretty bothered by the pricing as compared to the Eta.... Given the choice between an i5 tri-fighter or a i4 Jedi general with TWO force and customizability, I would take the Jedi General any day.

I have been trying to fit Tri-Fighters on lists and have so far been unsuccessful; i'm trying to figure out a good way to pair two i5's with Jango Fett and have had mixed (mostly poor) results.

6 minutes ago, player655164 said:

I agree. I THINK 1 point or free might be a little scary when applied to an entire swarm of vultures. Imagine facing off against 6 network calculating vultures all with 2 calculates? seems brutal.

But yes, I was pretty bothered by the pricing as compared to the Eta.... Given the choice between an i5 tri-fighter or a i4 Jedi general with TWO force and customizability, I would take the Jedi General any day.

I have been trying to fit Tri-Fighters on lists and have so far been unsuccessful; i'm trying to figure out a good way to pair two i5's with Jango Fett and have had mixed (mostly poor) results.

The thing is, it takes away your ability to network. So not only does it remove arguably the best ability in the game, all it does past that is allow you to get a slightly better red focus.

And if you have just two ships of the same chassis (which is about where I’d stop using this upgrade, regardless of points), it forces you to set aside a whole eight points or nothing.

17 minutes ago, Matanui3 said:

The thing is, it takes away your ability to network. So not only does it remove arguably the best ability in the game, all it does past that is allow you to get a slightly better red focus.

And if you have just two ships of the same chassis (which is about where I’d stop using this upgrade, regardless of points), it forces you to set aside a whole eight points or nothing.

ahh yes of course. I completely forgot that it set aside networked calculations. Then yeah, 1 or 2 points. This is even more so since it takes up your mod slot which many would probably prefer to use for stealth device or afterburners.

1 hour ago, gamblertuba said:

I don't see a single argument for Independent Calculations at 4 points. I honestly expected 1 point or even free. Maybe you could argue for adding a single vulture or hyena with Discord Missiles?

The pricing on the Tri-Fighter seems very cautious to me. Which is fine. But seems a little odd compared to the Eta and the new RZ-2's etc. A couple Tri-Fighters as flankers sounds good in theory but not sure what you pair them with? There is probably a list there but I haven't found it yet.

Some of the more powerful ships with Networked Calculations might benefit. It is a bit much, but I probably wouldn't take it down too far. For example, DBS-404 (Hyena) with that Range 0 - 1 attack and Independent Calculations could be strong.

Independent Calculations is the rare 2.0 upgrade where FFG could actually consider giving it a negative price. It could be -1 or -2 points and I would still really have to debate over whether it'd be worth giving up Networked Calculations on every ship of that type.

I think 1 point is where it will end up eventually unless someone manages to get some use out of DFS-311 or something like that. My major complaint is it removes any ability to link actions which is the real super-power of the Vulture and seems essential to me on the TriFighter.

53 minutes ago, gamblertuba said:

I think 1 point is where it will end up eventually unless someone manages to get some use out of DFS-311 or something like that. My major complaint is it removes any ability to link actions which is the real super-power of the Vulture and seems essential to me on the TriFighter.

You can still link actions, the upgrade basically just allows you to link a calculate into a calculate.

3 hours ago, Stay OT Leader said:

I like the pricing because I think you can see FFG telling you what to do with the ship. The I1 Colicoid is overpriced. It's *at best* equal to an Alpha Interceptor but realistically should cost less than 31. But the Phlacc-Arphocc Prototype is 41pts for an I5 which is at least a bit reasonable.

You're not supposed to be playing lots of these things like you do Vulture Droids, you're being told (via the price) to run one or two of the higher Initiative ones. I think the I5 with Predator is fine at 43pts and doesn't need anything else, and I like DIS-E47 as a solid little block of dice mods in squads where he won't be the first target.

It's not a particularly powerful ship, though. I really wanted to like the Tri-Fighter but I think at present it's going to disappoint quite often.

I think you are right, while gen I1 ship seems kind of pricy its not very many points to jump up to the higher I pilots.

There is only a 6pt spread from cheapest to most expensive.

I however really like the ship.

2 hours ago, gamblertuba said:

I think 1 point is where it will end up eventually unless someone manages to get some use out of DFS-311 or something like that. My major complaint is it removes any ability to link actions which is the real super-power of the Vulture and seems essential to me on the TriFighter.

At risk of sidetracking things, my mind went here when I saw your idea. Certainly not amazing but maybe the gateway to something amusing:

DFS-311 (23)
XX-23 S-Thread Tracers (2)
Grappling Struts (1)
Independent Calculations (4)
Ship total: 30 Half Points: 15 Threshold: 2

Techno Union Bomber (25)
Ion Missiles (2)
Proximity Mines (6)
Landing Struts (1)
Ship total: 34 Half Points: 17 Threshold: 3

Techno Union Bomber (25)
Ion Missiles (2)
Proximity Mines (6)
Landing Struts (1)
Ship total: 34 Half Points: 17 Threshold: 3

Techno Union Bomber (25)
Ion Missiles (2)
Proximity Mines (6)
Landing Struts (1)
Ship total: 34 Half Points: 17 Threshold: 3

Techno Union Bomber (25)
Ion Missiles (2)
Proximity Mines (6)
Landing Struts (1)
Ship total: 34 Half Points: 17 Threshold: 3

Techno Union Bomber (25)
Ion Missiles (2)
Proximity Mines (6)
Landing Struts (1)
Ship total: 34 Half Points: 17 Threshold: 3


Total: 200

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0: https://raithos.github.io/?f=Separatist Alliance&d=v8ZsZ200Z337X332W208W367Y324XW101W70WW237Y324XW101W70WW237Y324XW101W70WW237Y324XW101W70WW237Y324XW101W70WW237&sn=Unnamed Squadron&obs=

(For giggles, you could drop struts and tweak things to make at least most of those Ion Torps)

5 hours ago, Stay OT Leader said:

It's *at best* equal to an Alpha Interceptor but realistically should cost less than 31.

You dont think networked calculations on 3 agility is too strong for 31pts or less. The survivability of a networked calc Tri-Fighter, with basically 5+ calculates vs a 1 focus interceptor is enough for the price increase, imo.

I think 34pts woulda been fine if 6 in a list was found to be too strong in testing.

No I don’t, not even close.

2 hours ago, wurms said:

You dont think networked calculations on 3 agility is too strong for 31pts or less. The survivability of a networked calc Tri-Fighter, with basically 5+ calculates vs a 1 focus interceptor is enough for the price increase, imo.

Just plugged some stuff into the probability calc.

Against four Focused 3-red attacks, for a 3-green focused, about 3.7 expected hits, 74% chance to take at least 3. With 1 native Calc and 4 on buddies: 2.6 damage, 49% chance to take at least 3.

Saving one damage over 4 attacks doesn't seem that huge... Not sure if that's worth 4 points or not.

1 hour ago, theBitterFig said:

Saving one damage over 4 attacks doesn't seem that huge... Not sure if that's worth 4 points or not.

Given that this 1 damage is the difference between shooting back or getting initiative killed, and then still moving next turn and requiring yet more attention to finish off, I think it's pretty significant. This kind of thing snowballs fast.

Networked calcs is great. If you keep them all together to share calcs. Which is a great way to die.

I dunno. There may be something there but I'm not seeing it yet.

40 minutes ago, DR4CO said:

Given that this 1 damage is the difference between shooting back or getting initiative killed, and then still moving next turn and requiring yet more attention to finish off, I think it's pretty significant. This kind of thing snowballs fast.

Maybe.

But it's also not just 4 points on one ship, since you don't get that toughness without 4 extra Calcs on friends, so it's more like 20 points. And even then, it's still a 50% chance of dying. Flip tails on a single coin, and toasted.

Such a strange ship, I just have no clue. My sense is the initial prices are pretty conservative. Maybe they go down, but they probably don't go up. I guess this is better than radically too cheap, but if they were even 2 points cheaper for the generics (33, so a 6-Tri swarm could fit), I think we'd probably get a better idea of whether they're good or not. The danger with starting with stuff overpriced is that folks might not test it as much, and then we don't know, and then buffs are likely to be overdone.

1 hour ago, theBitterFig said:

Against four Focused 3-red attacks, for a 3-green focused, about 3.7 expected hits, 74% chance to take at least 3. With 1 native Calc and 4 on buddies: 2.6 damage, 49% chance to take at least 3.

A 25% chance difference of being destroyed or not in a round by likely your opponents whole list (or most of it at least) seems very significant.

And if the damaged tri survives it’s now a very maneuverable blocker that can still share tokens with it’s healthy friends.

Seems very worth it to me over an tie interceptor.