Hey all,

So, I'm running an AoR campaign with a Force sub-plot character arc for my Force Sensitive Emergent PC player. We are playing in the Kathol Sector, where, according to Wookipeedia, some Sith Scholars set up research bases on Aaris III & Sebiris c.4000 BBY, studying the Nightmare Lands effects on these worlds. As I understand it (=might be wrong), this is a reference to SW:TOR where I think (=again, might be wrong) Aaris III & Sebiris is only mentioned in as side-quests that you send your NPC staffers off to look into... or something. In shot, I _THINK_ there's very little information out there, but perhaps you SW:TOR players can shed some light or offer some suggestions to what these ancient research bases might contain around 2 ABY?

(As you might have gathered, I've never played SW:TOR, but I like to tie in Canon & Legends stuff whenever appropriate in my games)

The scenario I have planned is a mid-campaign story seeing the FSE exploring a Sith lab ruin in the wilds; so I'm looking for a fun little encounter with some possible background exposition and perhaps a minor combat (not required). Nothing climactic or ground-shaking, just a little wannabe-Jedi side quest

Thematically, the Kathol Sector is ripe with legends of old "gods" roaming the sector in the distant past (WAY before the Sith stuff), and dreams and nightmare are a running thread throughout... which, I assumes, is why the SW:TOR people chose Aaris II & Sebiris as Nightmare Lands research sites in the first place. (In short, the gods "live" in the dreams of Kathol Sector individuals and dreams). It therefore fits well into our overall pre- DarkStryder Campaign campaign exploration of the Kathol Sector.

So, without further ado, what would a fun SW:TOR referencing small-scale side-mission look like?

(For reference, neither me nor the FSE player have played SW:TOR, but there's another player in the group who've played SW:TOR religiously in the past and who'll get a kick out of this vicarious experience for sure)

Thanks in advance for any help

Edit: Clarification - non SW:TOR players are more than welcome to brainstorm suggestions, too

The Nightmare Lands on Voss? Or do you mean the Dread Seed areas?

The Voss thing. It was part of Project Chimera (whatever that is).

Here's what Wookiepedia says (basically the same info for both planets):
"By 3643 BBY, during the Galactic War between the Galactic Republic and the Sith Empire , many of Aaris III's cities stood abandoned. Scavengers were known to raid the planet's ruined cities for valuables, and had found well-preserved bunkers full of serviceable equipment such as weapons and military supplies. ^[5] The Sith Empire maintained a presence on Aaris III during the war. The nature of the Empire's work on the planet was tied to Project Chimera , a Science Bureau initiative that was studying the effects that the Nightmare Lands on the planet Voss had on non-native lifeforms"
+(Behind the Scenes): "the planet and its civil war was later mentioned in 2011 's MMORPG The Old Republic as part of a Scavenging Mission in which the player can send their companions on various missions to gather supplies and resources. ^[5] "

Any relevant help, info, or suggestions are very welcome.

Well, that area on the Voss map is basically a bunch of Dark-Side warped animals and mercenary camps. The Voss patrol it, trying to keep it all in check, but that's basically the adventure hook for the players in SWTOR.

There are some rancor-like creatures and some chitin-covered creatures that are both basically Dark-Side created (I believe). https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Category:Creatures_of_Voss , Vorantikus and Shaclaw respectively.

Sel-Makor is destroyed during the progress of game quests, so having players in the area thousands of years later wouldn't find him. That might mean the Dark-Side influence has slowly been healing, or maybe a Dark-Side cult has moved into the area to fill the void. If you know about the Voss, they are a species that split into two when learning the Force. Maybe the Gormak have ramped up their brutality after the planet was abandoned by the Sith Empire and Galactic Republic (I assume it was).

If the Force Emergent character it looking for holocrons or ways to learn about the Force, then Voss DOES have that covered rather well. I think the temple ruins, and such, are on different maps though.

The main plot hooks for an adventure should include trying to form an alliance with the Voss or Gormak in order to be able to explore the planet at all, or else there will be quite a lot of combat encounters. Then you have to keep the ship safe somewhere as all. In the SWOTR game, you have to leave it docked in a spacestation and take a shuttle down to the surface (this is during a war though, so maybe it's not required any more). Perhaps the Voss went full hermit and no longer have the ability to interact with space travel, but that wouldn't stop them from heading out to find any spaceships that land on Voss.

Sounds like an interesting SW:TOR quest

Just to clarify, my gampaign takes place in the Kathol Sector where there's already an established dreamy-ness reality, and the Sith researchers went here to experiment with the Nightmare Lands effects from Voss; so we're not going to Voss in my campaign, if that makes sense. So, what could the Sith reaserchers actually be up to in that respect? (Again, in the SW:TOR this connection to the Kathol Sector is mentioned only as " part of a Scavenging Mission in which the player can send their companions on various missions to gather supplies and resources " , so there is very little information on what is going on with Aaris III & Sebiris.... only that it has something to do with Sith research into the Nightmare Lands thing). Chitin-covered Dark-Side creatures fits rather well, and would be a simple enough thing to craft an encounter around.

What would such Sith people technically be doing in a lab dedicated to research the Nightmare Lands? Torture people while they dream, perhaps?

The Voss could have been wiped out in your campaign, and the only thing left is to study relics. If the Sith found some artifacts describing how the Voss interacted with the Force, then they could be trying to replicate it. Forcing dreamwalking, etc.

Sounds interesting.

Just checking, has this creature ("Dark Sithspawn"?) anything to do with the Nightmare stuff?

I think that is on Dromund Kaas, the Imperial home world. There is a heroic mission that ends with you fighting a champion version of the Shaclaw (at least the same model is used).

EDIT: You summon it after collecting 5-6 artifacts and then putting them in the right order (the Sith Code).

I’m not familiar with the side quest, but I’ve completed Voss and the nightmare lands eight times. Having done it with four Sith characters, the Sith had people researching all kinds of stuff, all over the place. My guess is that they were investigating a Dark Side phenomenon in the Kathol region, not unlike the Nightmare lands of Voss, which makes sense. In most, if not all cases, these investigations go horribly wrong in the game, with the exploration teams falling prey to whatever they are studying, as happened in the Nightmare lands. The teams go insane, turn evil, whatever.

As for what a research base might contain some 4,000 years later, I’d go with either nothing (records of weird phenomenon that have since ended like the Nightmare lands of Voss will have by 2 ABY, perhaps a lead for something in your adventure) or some bizarre evil that has been stewing for 4K years waiting for its next victim. Either way, the Sith researchers met an untimely end for messing with things that are best left alone (sounds like Czerka, don’t it).

15 hours ago, Mike J said:

I’m not familiar with the side quest, but I’ve completed Voss and the nightmare lands eight times. Having done it with four Sith characters, the Sith had people researching all kinds of stuff, all over the place. My guess is that they were investigating a Dark Side phenomenon in the Kathol region, not unlike the Nightmare lands of Voss, which makes sense. In most, if not all cases, these investigations go horribly wrong in the game, with the exploration teams falling prey to whatever they are studying, as happened in the Nightmare lands. The teams go insane, turn evil, whatever.

As for what a research base might contain some 4,000 years later, I’d go with either nothing (records of weird phenomenon that have since ended like the Nightmare lands of Voss will have by 2 ABY, perhaps a lead for something in your adventure) or some bizarre evil that has been stewing for 4K years waiting for its next victim. Either way, the Sith researchers met an untimely end for messing with things that are best left alone (sounds like Czerka, don’t it).

Thanks, that gives me a lot of context to work with, and it fits well with my presumptions and preliminary brainstorming.

At present, I aim to let the ruins be infused with some dark energies that conjurs the PCs childhood nightmares to confront them physically. That way, I don't have to explain why a 4000 y.o. beast is still hanging out at the site, and it lets me explore some dream/nightmare stuff which thematically fits well with the Kathol stuff. My thinking is that the old Sith researchers tortured sentient beings in their sleep (probably through some hallucinogenic drugs) to access Kathol's underlying dream reality through their victim's drug-induced nightmares. To hint at this without having to resort to hologramic/ghost'y exposition, I plan to let the PCs find 4000 y.o. skeletons strapped to "dentist chairs" with evidence of fungal growth on the bone of their skulls; 'cause fungi + head = hallucinatioins Does that sound appropriate for the Sith researcher projects?

I'm not sure yet what information or insight the players should take away from the encounter, though. I don't want this to be a big thing that shapes the course of the campaign, but rather just an interesting and flavorsome event for the PCs to stumble across on their way. So, no Sith holocrons or an such thing... Hm...

What FFGSWRPG Force Powers would fit sleep/dream/nightmare themes well? Perhaps I can let the PCs find some documents that offer a small discount to learning/advancing through a Force Power... Thoughts?

10 hours ago, angelman2 said:

What FFGSWRPG Force Powers would fit slee/dream/nightmare themes well? Perhaps I can let the PCs find some documents that offer a small discount to learning/advancing through a Force Power... Thoughts?

Personally, I like the idea of using this to thematically introduce Psychometry/Echosense into the party as an optional power that they could now take, but I know other people on the forum have differing opinions on this.

Edit: all credit for the power tree should go to @Nytwyng and @Donovan Morningfire who I believe created it together.

That's a really cool idea. I like it! I like storyteller-device powers.

Could you, if you don't mind, list the main reasons why people think this power is a bad idea? (I have played J:FO, by the way and am thus familiar with the power)

8 hours ago, angelman2 said:

Thanks, that gives me a lot of context to work with, and it fits well with my presumptions and preliminary brainstorming.

At present, I aim to let the ruins be infused with some dark energies that conjurs the PCs childhood nightmares to confront them physicall. That way, I don't have to explain why a 4000 y.o. beast is still hanging out at the site, and it lets me explore some dream/nightmare stuff which thematically fits well with the Kathol stuff. My thinking is that the old Sith researchers tortured sentient beings in their sleep (probably through some hallucinogenic drugs) to access Kathol's underlying dream reality through their victim's drug-induced nightmares. To hint at this without having to resort to hologramic/ghost'y exposition, I plan to let the PCs find 4000 y.o. skeletons strapped to "dentist chairs" with evidence of fungal growth on the bone of their skulls; 'cause fungi + head = hallucinatioins Does that sound appropriate for the Sith researcher projects?

I'm not sure yet what information or insight the players should take away from the encounter, though. I don't want this to be a big thing that shapes the course of the campaign, but rather just an interesting and flavorsome event for the PCs to stumble across on their way. So, no Sith holocrons or an such thing... Hm...

Your idea is great. I especially like the fungi and dentist chairs part. Keep in mind that many of these sites (in SWTOR or otherwise) aren’t beasts. Instead they are a Dark Side nexus of some sort. That leaves you the flexibility of having a ‘conjured’ beast or not. Sel-Makor is kinda like that. He is a spirit or ghost but IIRC he also manifests as a beast for you to defeat in the game. The source of the Dark Side power can be anything, so you don’t have to come up with a 4000 year excuse. Like Yoda’s Dark Side tree in Empire Strikes Back - it is just strong with the Dark Side.

As for the research projects, some are actual experiments, while most are a “go check this out” mission. Either way, the result is a tragic and almost comical end for the team. Sometimes the missions are repeated - Didn’t hear from research team A, go find out what happened. Sometimes the “results” must be shut down (this is often the mission for SWTOR characters). Not everything needs an explanation, especially the more mystical stuff.

You could have the whole experience be a “That was weird. Let’s never go back there again.” A taste of the stranger aspects of the Force nobody likes to think about.

All good advice, @Mike J I don't want a "random dark side site" however, since there's only one Force User in the PC group and Force stuff isn't a main concern, and I'm trying to keep things a bit focused and controlled, story-wise. Of course, there could be a Dark Side nexus at this site ALSO, but primarily I want this to be tied to the native dream weirdness (which is also why these worlds got name dropped in SW:TOR, I assume).

That said, hints to some sort of tragic backstory wherein the Sith researchers became victims of their own folly would be rather satisfying.

2 hours ago, angelman2 said:

Could you, if you don't mind, list the main reasons why people think this power is a bad idea?

Referencing one or your previous posts here:

Some of the concerns people have about this power seem to be based around destroying the investigative or mysterious aspects of the game by having something that allows you to see events that have transpired. Personally, I think there are good ways to handle this as a GM by only giving limited levels of information or impressions of events around the object, as stated in the power tree.

4 hours ago, SufficientlyAdvancedMoronics said:

Personally, I like the idea of using this to thematically introduce Psychometry/Echosense into the party as an optional power that they could now take, but I know other people on the forum have differing opinions on this.

Edit: all credit for the power tree should go to @Nytwyng and @Donovan Morningfire who I believe created it together.

Donovan's got his own version of the tree out there, giving credit where due. We did come up with our trees about the same time, with ideas bounced around between one another, and looking to reach similar but different goals (I was thinking more of Quinlan Vos' version, while Donovan was working on it for a Cal Kestis build.) I like them both, and have his tree somewhere, as a progressive, "named" version similar to Warde's Farsigh or Jersarra's Influence: Kestis' Pshychometry. (But I may change the name to Kestis' Echosense...I like that term.)

1 hour ago, angelman2 said:

hints to some sort of tragic backstory wherein the Sith researchers became victioms of their own folly would be rather satisfying

If you've never read the plot to Forbidden Planet (loosely based on The Tempest ), I think this is a great way to incorporate a mixture of themes; history, dreams, unlimited power, and morality. I've toyed with the idea of using it for a side quest where players are plagued by a powerful entity that they think is ancient but turns our to be their own base instincts, and I think using the setting of Voss would be great for confronting the payers' struggles with their own morality, and may be fun to use...

... Brb, going to write some plot for my game.

2 hours ago, SufficientlyAdvancedMoronics said:

Some of the concerns people have about this power seem to be based around destroying the investigative or mysterious aspects of the game by having something that allows you to see events that have transpired. Personally, I think there are good ways to handle this as a GM by only giving limited levels of information or impressions of events around the object, as stated in the power tree.

That's the great thing about Force powers though, just because YOU experience them as real, doesn't mean anyone else is inclined to believe you. I'd say the player that used the power might still have to make a Charm or Coercion check to get the other sentient to believe them.

Or even worse, if the person they are trying to convince fully believes in Force abilities, then they can never trust them not to be controlling their mind.

So, to follow up on this with more questions...

As mentioned, I haven't played the games or read any Old Rep books, but I have a very basic understanding of things. One of my players though, is a KotOR veteran and I'd like not to fudge up details for him, so...:

--Does it make sense that the ancient Sith Empire researcher/torturer/scientist belonged to the sith species? Or Are they extinct at this point, perhaps? Or only used for Cannon fooder, or whatever? (My players are going to witness some scenes during a force-flashback vision and I'd like for the vision to be powerful and immediately recognizable - you know, show don't tell. Hence the question)

--Would a Sith Empire dream researcher/psycho-scientist/torturer likely also be a Dark Side Force user? And if yes, what kinds of powers would they likely possess.

--Are there any other visuals - common henchmen/pets/droids, uniforms, weirdness effects, etc - that I should add to the scene to efficiently convey to my KotOR veteran player that this vision they're having belong to that era & conflict?

In short, how do I KotOR-/Sith Wars- code the Force-flashback vision?

Thanks! :-)

KotOR takes place ~300 years before SWTOR. IIRC the are no pure blood Sith (red skinned people with face tentacles) shown in KotOR. In SWTOR, they are alive and well, play prominent roles in the Sith Empire, and are a playable race. Ironically, I have a pure blood Sith, Dark Sider, Republic trooper character in the game. Your researcher could very likely be pure blood Sith and it would make sense. Your researcher would probably be a Dark Side Force user - many in the game are, some even hold the title of “Darth” as opposed to just “Lord”. The only iconic visual I can think of would be minions in Sith Empire uniforms, perhaps from the Imperial Reclamation Service (they had a Nazi look to them). The IRS was responsible for collecting/finding powerful artifacts and exploring strange phenomenon, like your researcher.

KotOR is a bit harder to easily “show”. The KotOR Sith are just former Jedi Revan and Malak who turn on the Republic and use the Star Forge (an ancient Rakata super-weapon) to manufacture their ships/weapons/etc. I didn’t play the sequel game, so I can’t speak to that. However, the SWTOR Sith Empire (believed to be dead after the Great Hyperspace War) is quietly biding its time on Dromund Kaas while Revan and Malak do their thing. IIRC, the non-SWTOR pure blood Sith are wiped out before KotOR. You really have two very different looking genres. If the KotOR player is also familiar with SWTOR, I’d use the SWTOR imagery - it’s easier and more distinctive.

Hope this helps.

Apparently, the Sith research into Kathol stuff happens "By 3643", during the Galactic War, so that puts it concurrent with SW:TOR, right?. (I used SW:ToR and KotOR interchangably above... which is a tad bit wrong ).

In any case, thanks for the reply. This is all gold!

This all sounds really fascinating. . . except Voss isn't in the Kathol Sector .

The "Nightmare Lands" in the Kathol sector are just a place with the same name as the "Nightmare Lands" on Voss. Like, I'm sure Tattooine isn't the only planet in the entire Star Wars galaxy to have a "Dune Sea."

When you're talking about things mentioned in TOR, context is important. In the context of a crew mission. . . it's pretty much irrelevant.

Crew Skill missions work where you have Gathering and Crafting skills, and send the companions you acquire during play through the story out to either gather resources or craft things with those resources. Higher level missions grant resources to make higher level stuff, and take more time. There's no real risk involved, and the missions only take between one minute and one hour to complete. If you care about reading through the little lore entry for a specific mission, where you're sending someone and why that would give you those resources amounts to an Easter Egg about Star Wars lore, but that's really it.

The Kathol Sector, I believe, was detailed as a setting for the West End Games Star Wars RPG, so it's got a bit of history to it. If you can find the old sourcebook detailing it, that might give you some ideas.

Yeah, I'm going off the WEG DarkStryder Campaign sourcebooks for the Kathol stuff (plus a few little tidbits that exist elsewhere). What I am trying to figure out is what the Kathol (i.e. Aaris III & Sebiris) nightmare research thing mentioned in SW:ToR could've been and how I can make use of it in my campaign, for flavor and to fan-service my Sw:Tor & SW:KoToR veteran player. I'm trying to connect some dots between the Kathol Sector themes, locations, and mysteries, and the Easter Egg hints mentioned in SW:ToR. My (pre- DarkStryder Campaign ) player character group will find an old lab where the Sith Empire "Nightmare Lands" reaserch stuff was conduction in the Kathol Sector, and I'm asking for suggestions and insights to inform this.

As mentioned above, we're not going to Voss and the Nightmare Lands aren't in the Kathol Sector, but the Sith dudes did some research concerning the Nightmare Lands in the Kathol Sector.... which is what I'm interested in here.