A Couple of Starfighter-Based Quandaries

By venkelos, in Star Wars: Age of Rebellion RPG

Came up with some questions regarding starfighters, mostly squadrons, in the game:

  1. I'm not a military person, personally, so ranks tend to escape me. If I was looking at the members of a top-tier fighter squadron, how do their ranks, within the military, work out? On the one hand, the Empire doesn't generally seem to value theirs, while other members of their military, like Moffs, might even seem like their ranks are different. I don't know if, if I introduced Death Squadron, what rank the squad leader of it would hold, or his second? I hoped that the Rebels might help, since we tend to get more details from them, but even Rogue Squadron, I don't know what rank Wedge Antilles held in Return of the Jedi. In later novels, he was a general, even, but then the Rebellion doled out ranks like prizes, because they needed people to fill jobs; "General" Solo wasn't even in the military, but was going to perform actions possibly requiring his rank, or something comparable. So the Rebels didn't help much. Is there a good answer? Does anyone know the ranking systems among the various factions' fighter corps?
  2. This one is more mechanical. How do you handle a squadron of aces? We'll use Rogue Squadron. Wedge Antilles is considered one of the greatest fighter pilots ever, and is justified in being placed at the head of Rogue Squadron, but he's not the only ace in the unit; most members of this illustrious team are a cut above the rest. This is fine, except in this game, squadrons usually seem to work by just stacking the rest of the fighters on top of the leader, getting better for more members. With nameless pilots, of regular skill, that's fine, but if Wedge Antilles, Luke Skywalker, and Jaina Solo were all in Rogue Squadron at the same time...it just doesn't work for the mechanics of squadrons as I understand them. Would they just each fly solo, and ignore squadron benefits? Is there a way to stack other Elites into a single squadron, and not just be wasting them? I don't expect there are enough extra fighters around to have each break off, squad up with other chaff fighters, and work, but otherwise I don't get how a squadron of elite pilots is supposed to function in this game. A few years ago, I invented an Imperial equivalent to Rogue Squadron, for use in a game of AoR that never took off; they were Reaper Squadron, and I invented a heroic squad leader to command them, and garner PR from the citizenry, named Darian Killgrave (for the question above, I ranked him Commander). Thing is, Reaper One, while amazing, is in a TIE Hunter squadron comprised of several of the Empire's best aces, so as said, I'm uncertain how one Nemesis special character and four TIE Ace Elites make a squadron that isn't just strap on health packs to the leader. Any advice would be great.

Well, that will about do it. Hope everyone is well, and has a wonderful holiday!

On 11/25/2020 at 2:16 PM, venkelos said:
  1. I'm not a military person, personally, so ranks tend to escape me. If I was looking at the members of a top-tier fighter squadron, how do their ranks, within the military, work out? On the one hand, the Empire doesn't generally seem to value theirs, while other members of their military, like Moffs, might even seem like their ranks are different. I don't know if, if I introduced Death Squadron, what rank the squad leader of it would hold, or his second? I hoped that the Rebels might help, since we tend to get more details from them, but even Rogue Squadron, I don't know what rank Wedge Antilles held in Return of the Jedi. In later novels, he was a general, even, but then the Rebellion doled out ranks like prizes, because they needed people to fill jobs; "General" Solo wasn't even in the military, but was going to perform actions possibly requiring his rank, or something comparable. So the Rebels didn't help much. Is there a good answer? Does anyone know the ranking systems among the various factions' fighter corps?

I'd say that, in general, you've probably got a structure something like this:

  • Squadron, 3 flights led by a squadron commander
    • Flight, 2 elements led by a captain or squadron commander
      • Element, 2 fighters led by the senior pilot (usually a lieutenant, captain, or squadron commander)

So it comes out to a Squadron Commander, 2 Captains, 3 Lieutenants, and 6 Flight Officers.

On 11/25/2020 at 2:16 PM, venkelos said:
  1. This one is more mechanical. How do you handle a squadron of aces? We'll use Rogue Squadron. Wedge Antilles is considered one of the greatest fighter pilots ever, and is justified in being placed at the head of Rogue Squadron, but he's not the only ace in the unit; most members of this illustrious team are a cut above the rest. This is fine, except in this game, squadrons usually seem to work by just stacking the rest of the fighters on top of the leader, getting better for more members. With nameless pilots, of regular skill, that's fine, but if Wedge Antilles, Luke Skywalker, and Jaina Solo were all in Rogue Squadron at the same time...it just doesn't work for the mechanics of squadrons as I understand them. Would they just each fly solo, and ignore squadron benefits? Is there a way to stack other Elites into a single squadron, and not just be wasting them? I don't expect there are enough extra fighters around to have each break off, squad up with other chaff fighters, and work, but otherwise I don't get how a squadron of elite pilots is supposed to function in this game. A few years ago, I invented an Imperial equivalent to Rogue Squadron, for use in a game of AoR that never took off; they were Reaper Squadron, and I invented a heroic squad leader to command them, and garner PR from the citizenry, named Darian Killgrave (for the question above, I ranked him Commander). Thing is, Reaper One, while amazing, is in a TIE Hunter squadron comprised of several of the Empire's best aces, so as said, I'm uncertain how one Nemesis special character and four TIE Ace Elites make a squadron that isn't just strap on health packs to the leader. Any advice would be great.

Easy: 12 Rival/Nemesis-level pilots. These aren't the mooks that you can easily gun down, they are going to each have a high level of skill and will be difficult to take on.

Just have them operate as a coordinated group rather than using the squadron or minion rules.

According to wookiepedia, squadrons (also called groups) consist of 12 fighters/bombers, and can have as many as 15. Red Squadron is commanded by several different rebel officers ranked commander (including Skywalker). Gold Squadron is commanded by a captain, and later by General Calrissian.

On 11/25/2020 at 2:16 PM, venkelos said:

1) . . . how do their ranks, within the military, work out?

In the US Military there are two types of Pilots. Officers and Specialists often called Warrant Officers (WO). WO's are individuals who are trained with the specific skills sets of operating the vehicle. They are AWESOME at doing that one job because they are able to focus on that skill set.

Officers, on the other hand, have the training and job of coordinating the squadron as a whole and integrating and supervising the the battle with allies. They'll have fewer Ace or Pilot talent trees and more Leadership talent trees.

On 11/25/2020 at 2:16 PM, venkelos said:

How do you handle a squadron of aces?

{Shrug} The same way you handle any other squadron.

The term 'ACE' is an artificial term that was coined for pilots who had at least five confirmed enemy shoot downs (aka Kills)! If you have a squadron of well trained pilots who all survive lots of combat, you'll have a squadron of Aces pretty quickly.

If you have a squadron of well trained pilots who survive lots of missions without any combat, they'll be just as awesome as the combat veterans but there won't be any aces because there was never the opportunity to become an ace.

I would recommend reading the book "The First Team" by John B Lundstrom which follows the exploits of the US Navy in the Pacific up to the Battle of Midway.

It's a very detailed 500 page look at the US Navy fighter pilots with some good insights into the Japanese Imperial Navy too. If you want a great crash course in Squadron organization and actual combat experiences check it out.

Getting back to the topic of "Ace Squadrons" the vast majority of WW II US Navy pilots were NOT aces. There were a large quantity of pilots flying fighters throughout the war, but most of them never saw an enemy combatant and walked away with hundreds of flight hours and zero kills. In part it was because the Americans were able to cycle pilots through, so that no one saw more than one year of combat service, before promoting up and out of a fighter squadron. (IIRC pretty much every US 'Ace' in the First Teams discontinued flying fighter craft after the battle of Midway, with most of them being assigned to training or command duties for the remainder of the war).

Conversely, the Germans, by the end of WW II had a lot of surviving fighter aces, because those pilots HAD to fly combat sorties constantly for 5+ years. But German casualties were so high that pretty much the only pilots to survive were the 'Aces.'

1 hour ago, Mark Caliber said:

{Shrug} The same way you handle any other squadron.

The term 'ACE' is an artificial term that was coined for pilots who had at least five confirmed enemy shoot downs (aka Kills)! If you have a squadron of well trained pilots who all survive lots of combat, you'll have a squadron of Aces pretty quickly.

Pretty sure he's just saying "super good pilots like Rogue Squadron" not using the technical term. There are starfighter ace statblocks (Rebel, Imperial, Military), all of which are Rivals.

The important thing to remember is that rank is not directly tied to piloting (or gunnery) skill. If you are using the minion rules and supporting (NPC) squadron mates, then having a good Presence/Leadership and the talents to pull your flight in to protect yourself, then you'll do far better than a solo pilot with great flying/shooting skills because you won't get shot down, even if your squadron does. I know, it seems ruthless and cowardly, but that's how starfighter combat works in this game.

Moff is a diplomatic title for the sector governors of the Empire. Basically political-class officers that all other military ranks answer to. They speak for the Emperor as far as anyone below them is concerned.

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Moff