I say, this happens literally every day. It's called "Layoffs"

if you don't live in the Midwest and Chevy layoffs 300 workers, we don't blink an eye. We happen to be on a forum for a very small gaming company, There's how many people who work at FFG, is there more than 40? We as a community just happen to be attached to or have some commonality (and a face, due to the podcasts, etc.) with some of these names. Our community is more tight-knit if you will, so it hits a little harder or feels more personal. This is pretty normal fare for big business (and even small business. When Covid first hit, tens of thousands were laid off or furloughed.

Asmodee has for some time, been trying to make some headway by trimming the fat and cutting expenses. The head designers probably got paid more than others and were "easy" salaries to cut. They might hire 1-2 people for each of the big salaries they cut and call it a day, hoping that the newbies can produce the same amount as the big guys or head designers.

31 minutes ago, Caimheul1313 said:

Unfortunately, that kind of thing happens with fair regularity, the public just doesn't always know about it.

I know, and realistically I accept that a corporate entity isn't required or even expected to treat it's staff like people and not resources but with something as niche as miniature gaming I guess I wasn't expecting something so coldblooded. Sometimes it's hard to look directly into the bleeding jaws of capitalism as it chews up and spits out good people. But as you and @buckero0 say, it's not uncommon, it's just hitting closer to home.

That said Alex and the gang will undoubtedly find a new home. Their resume is teeming with success.

@Darth Sanguis Again, it is important to remember that Asmodee is not the top of the chain. The parent corporation is a private equity firm, for which this treatment of employees is (unfortunately) par for the course. So the people who made this decision are likely at the level of PAI Partners, and may not even know the names of the people who were just fired.

Part of the reason it isn't seen as often with miniatures games is that many of the companies that produce them aren't part of some large conglomerate. They are relatively small, independent firms, so this kind of restructuring is relatively rare. I also see a lot of freelance employees being used, hiring artists on a per job basis for sculpting and box art and in a few cases I've even seen game developers hired in such a way. So if the firm needs to cut overhead, they just hire fewer or cheaper artist for a later project.

1 hour ago, Darth Sanguis said:

I know, and realistically I accept that a corporate entity isn't required or even expected to treat it's staff like people and not resources but with something as niche as miniature gaming I guess I wasn't expecting something so coldblooded. Sometimes it's hard to look directly into the bleeding jaws of capitalism as it chews up and spits out good people. But as you and @buckero0 say, it's not uncommon, it's just hitting closer to home.

That said Alex and the gang will undoubtedly find a new home. Their resume is teeming with success.

All I know is if Asmodee and their parent company can be cold blooded capitalists, my only recourse as a consumer is to vote with my dollar...

So it's the worst of what we feared... no inner communication at all. Davey seems, rightly, pretty upset.

On 11/17/2020 at 4:31 PM, Jedirev said:

Well, indeed. That was what triggered my concerns for continuity last night when I read the PressR.

I'm just not a fan of PE firms running gaming studios.

I mean...are there ‘any’ examples of PE firms making anything better for anyone?

It’s a trope for a good reason, that PE are not good for customers or products.

The AM presser outright says that they’re going to be making massive changes for the sake of change up front:

”Does this mean we should expect changes to X-Wing, Legion, and Armada?

Will: One of Atomic Mass’ core philosophies is that there is no finish line. We see ourselves on a lifelong journey of learning and improvement. That’s a pretentious way of saying yes (laughs).

If we’re doing the job right, and staying true to our ethos as a studio, changes will most certainly happen.”

Change is generally stressful because it’s not appreciated by those who are having the change forced on them. And yes, AM might have good intentions, but that doesn’t matter much if you bought into any of the three product lines (or all three) on the current systems. For anyone in that position, drastic change is unequivocally bad.

After the Lando and kallus wave I will consider my legion collection complete and I’ll no longer give my $$$ to them for this game and I’m Kurt to avoid asmodee products going forward with the exception of armada which maybe after a few waves of clone wars, my armada collection can be considered compete as well.

4 minutes ago, ninclouse2000 said:

After the Lando and kallus wave I will consider my legion collection complete and I’ll no longer give my $$$ to them for this game and I’m Kurt to avoid asmodee products going forward with the exception of armada which maybe after a few waves of clone wars, my armada collection can be considered compete as well.

They are pretty hard to avoid at this point, they either own or distribute a gigantic marketshare of US tabletop games.

5 minutes ago, KommanderKeldoth said:

They are pretty hard to avoid at this point, they either own or distribute a gigantic marketshare of US tabletop games.

Fair enough, if they keep quality up, no problems, I’m just highly skeptical about anything beyond points adjustments geared towards the tournament scene for Legion.

If there’s one thing that Alex and Luke nailed in their design ethos, it was that it’s better to issue limited (and revisited yearly) points adjustments rather that product obliterating errata.

2 minutes ago, KommanderKeldoth said:

They are pretty hard to avoid at this point, they either own or distribute a gigantic marketshare of US tabletop games.

And they know it. A similar thing happens with a bunch of other large, multinational organizations. They cut costs where they can, without caring about the employees it affects.
More power to anyone who is consistently voting with their wallet though.

1 minute ago, Caimheul1313 said:

More power to anyone who is consistently voting with their wallet though.

Yeah! *quietly hiding my four armies for A Song of Ice and Fire TMG*

17 minutes ago, KommanderKeldoth said:

Yeah! *quietly hiding my four armies for A Song of Ice and Fire TMG*

But hey, at least Asmodee doesnt OWN cmon, they just... *looks at website* are the exclusive distributor both domestically and overseas...

Deeply disappointed to learn this.

I'll be honest, I don't have any problem with this move. Yes it's sad that it sounds like the developers aren't going to keep working on this game, but I'm kind of excited about a true miniatures company taking over. I'll bet we see improved miniature sculpts (based on Crisis Protocol), more terrain options, better press releases, more interaction in contests and such, and better timelines for things. I'm all for those things!

In the end, I love playing this game and if it all crashes down around our ears after this move, I still have an incredible game to play with for years to come. But I don't think that'll happen. I'm eager to see what happens in the next few years for Legion!

2 hours ago, KommanderKeldoth said:

They are pretty hard to avoid at this point, they either own or distribute a gigantic marketshare of US tabletop games.

I’ve been more into Kickstarter games the last year or so. I feel my money is better spent and mostly goes straight to the guys making the game rather than the greedy capitalist dogs that probably have never played a game other than monopoly. I backed nemesis one of the greatest games I’ve ever played for instance.

I don’t know what I’ll do for existing games I’m playing, but I do know I will not buy into any new asmodee games. I’m apprehensive about the fate of our games and I may make them “complete” if the wrong direction is taken.

I’ve had decent luck with small publishers so I’m ok with not buying into a whole lot.

The one issue with small publisher/kickstarter games it is often significantly harder to get a community up and running for regular games. If you can get the game to get traction locally, great!
The main stream stuff with known licenses tend to be much easier to find players though, regardless of the game quality. Star Wars is going to attract people, but small companies run by people who love gaming aren't really going to be able afford the license.

Does anyone know if Luke Eddy also bit the bullet?

6 hours ago, ScummyRebel said:

I don’t know what I’ll do for existing games I’m playing, but I do know I will not buy into any new asmodee games. I’m apprehensive about the fate of our games and I may make them “complete” if the wrong direction is taken.

I’ve had decent luck with small publishers so I’m ok with not buying into a whole lot.

4 hours ago, Caimheul1313 said:

The one issue with small publisher/kickstarter games it is often significantly harder to get a community up and running for regular games. If you can get the game to get traction locally, great!
The main stream stuff with known licenses tend to be much easier to find players though, regardless of the game quality. Star Wars is going to attract people, but small companies run by people who love gaming aren't really going to be able afford the license.

These two comments catch it for me: the phrases "our game" and "get a community up".

This is what makes wargaming such a great hobby - you're investing in relationships, not plastic crack. PE firms don't care about that - as long as the spice flows... er... the product continues to sell.

Maybe Legion will weather this change - the community is strong, great video and podcast creators etc., but the weakness is the timing. Covid has been hard on the LGS. If local community was struggling a bit under the weight of crappy restock issues, it's going to be a lot harder under a reset (like X-wing 2.0 showed us), on top of the economic woes Covid recovery will present.

The pressure is on for AMG to not screw up. Regardless of the power of the IP, Star Wars fans in any market have the power to dent success (e.g. the TLJ backlash that squashed Solo out of the gate).

Continuity is going to be key for a lot of us.

46 minutes ago, Jedirev said:

These two comments catch it for me: the phrases "our game" and "get a community up".

This is what makes wargaming such a great hobby - you're investing in relationships, not plastic crack. PE firms don't care about that - as long as the spice flows... er... the product continues to sell.

Maybe Legion will weather this change - the community is strong, great video and podcast creators etc., but the weakness is the timing. Covid has been hard on the LGS. If local community was struggling a bit under the weight of crappy restock issues, it's going to be a lot harder under a reset (like X-wing 2.0 showed us), on top of the economic woes Covid recovery will present.

The pressure is on for AMG to not screw up. Regardless of the power of the IP, Star Wars fans in any market have the power to dent success (e.g. the TLJ backlash that squashed Solo out of the gate).

Continuity is going to be key for a lot of us.

Community includes the developers. As far as Im concerned Asmodee has already screwed up by jettisoning the creators of the game.

I dont have anything against AMG, but they will need to win me back as a customer, becuase as of right now my hobby dollars are going elsewhere. I bought into Legion becuase of the relationship and history I had with FFG, and becuase Alex Davy was the designer.

Commiserations to those who have lost their jobs over this, with no chance of working remotely for AMG or be moved to a new project. Being sacked sucks - and it is usually abrupt and a shock. As for the family of Star Wars games I hope that AMG adopt a "steady as she goes" approach and not throw a whole bunch of new editions at us.

8 hours ago, ninclouse2000 said:

I’ve been more into Kickstarter games the last year or so. I feel my money is better spent and mostly goes straight to the guys making the game rather than the greedy capitalist dogs that probably have never played a game other than monopoly. I backed nemesis one of the greatest games I’ve ever played for instance.

Sadly the huge companies seem to buy out the small guys, I just looked and nemesis is now owned by asmodee, I’ve wanted to play it but now I don’t know if I want to support the evil empire.

2 minutes ago, krebeck said:

Sadly the huge companies seem to buy out the small guys, I just looked and nemesis is now owned by asmodee, I’ve wanted to play it but now I don’t know if I want to support the evil empire.

Even more sadly, it's harder to avoid the 'evil empires'. Buy from Walmart? Eat Kraft products? Shop from Amazon? Own a mobile phone?

The best who can do is reward them when they do something you like, and avoid them when they don't, on a case by case basis. Boycotting Asmodee means dropping an awful lot of games.

1 hour ago, krebeck said:

Sadly the huge companies seem to buy out the small guys, I just looked and nemesis is now owned by asmodee, I’ve wanted to play it but now I don’t know if I want to support the evil empire.

You can get in on the late Kickstarter pledge possibly and get it that way. Mine will be delivered in February. It also comes with higher quality minis than the asmodee version. Check gamefound to see if you can make a late pledge.

3 hours ago, Jedirev said:

These two comments catch it for me: the phrases "our game" and "get a community up".

This is what makes wargaming such a great hobby - you're investing in relationships, not plastic crack. PE firms don't care about that - as long as the spice flows... er... the product continues to sell.

Correct: the community matters so much for these games. It can make or break a game just as much as game developers or a company can. I’ve seen folks promote a toxic competitive environment and turned me away from those games. Thankfully the ffg games we’ve had up to this point have promoted an amazing community.

My xwing community will survive whatever AMG does. We are invested well enough we can and would hold out as a “complete game” in 2.0 with a points revision we’ve seen before.

My legion community is smaller, just a few friends. I’m sure we’d adapt if we want. I’m more apprehensive about this one honestly.

7 hours ago, Caimheul1313 said:

The one issue with small publisher/kickstarter games it is often significantly harder to get a community up and running for regular games. If you can get the game to get traction locally, great!
The main stream stuff with known licenses tend to be much easier to find players though, regardless of the game quality. Star Wars is going to attract people, but small companies run by people who love gaming aren't really going to be able afford the license.

My friends group has enjoyed two smaller publisher skirmish games. I can see both of these continuing with us. Maybe at some point I can get more folks into it but for now it’s not a huge worry. I agree it’s a lot harder to find an opponent for those ones though.