what do they do?

2 minutes ago, Geekboy75g said:

what do they do?

Michael Gernes was the guy behind Star Wars Armada, again, I'm unfamiliar with Max. Alex Davy created Legion and Luke Eddy was a major member of development. I've been talking to a few people closer to what's going on. Asmodee has been gutting this company for a while.

I wonder if they knew about these changes when they made the last video talking about the new rules update, or if it was thrown on the team.

3 minutes ago, PhoenixOfCopper said:

I wonder if they knew about these changes when they made the last video talking about the new rules update, or if it was thrown on the team.

No reason to tell them. If you tell people they will be losing their job, they tend to start looking for a new one rather than doing their work to their fullest capability.

Even if they did know, they'd likely have been under a vicious NDA.

7 hours ago, buckero0 said:

I would hate to have to let anyone go in this environment and never wish for someone to be fired, but I really question the previous teams ability to balance since the game units have been out of balance since release. There doesn't need to be RRG updates (that are as massive or frequent) if the game is released with balance.

My experience with MCP has been quite opposite than that of Legion. I've always had access to any of their products at any time. They've released 50+ different boxes in under a year (compared to Legion that can barely release 10-15),

Every figure is playable from release (no DOA) and the amount of errata is kept to 2 pages.

The game isn't perfect, but it does capture the "feel" and "theme" of the medium.

My hope is that AMG can rub off on Legion and correct some of the stuff that we see pages of complaints about on this very forum. Hopefully they can at least borrow some of the AMG boats that move faster, don't have drunken captains or leaks in the bottom of the boat.

Absolutely appalling treatment for the development team who made their success.

I've thought before one of the biggest problems for FFG was trying to marry up board game release and marketing strategy with a TTMG. The move to a gaming studio might enormously help with that. Might still be tied to the same production and distribution network though, time will tell.

Just feel very sorry for a bunch of folks i don't really know, but feel i got acquainted with through the personal effort they put in to building Legion and engaging with the community.

12 minutes ago, Darth Sanguis said:

Michael Gernes was the guy behind Star Wars Armada, again, I'm unfamiliar with Max. Alex Davy created Legion and Luke Eddy was a major member of development. I've been talking to a few people closer to what's going on. Asmodee has been gutting this company for a while.

Let's be honest, it's more likely this is PAI Partners, the private equity firm which owns Asmodee, and therefore in turn owns all the sub-companies of Asmodee.
This kind of gutting and reorganizing is very common for private equity firms, since their goal is to maximize profits while minimizing expenses.

Just now, Jedirev said:

Absolutely appalling treatment for the development team who made their success.

I've thought before one of the biggest problems for FFG was trying to marry up board game release and marketing strategy with a TTMG. The move to a gaming studio might enormously help with that. Might still be tied to the same production and distribution network though, time will tell.

Just feel very sorry for a bunch of folks i don't really know, but feel i got acquainted with through the personal effort they put in to building Legion and engaging with the community.

They may also have zero desire to move to (I think) Seattle from Minnesota.

7 minutes ago, Caimheul1313 said:

Let's be honest, it's more likely this is PAI Partners, the private equity firm which owns Asmodee, and therefore in turn owns all the sub-companies of Asmodee.
This kind of gutting and reorganizing is very common for private equity firms, since their goal is to maximize profits while minimizing expenses.

They may also have zero desire to move to (I think) Seattle from Minnesota.

Well, indeed. That was what triggered my concerns for continuity last night when I read the PressR.

I'm just not a fan of PE firms running gaming studios.

Well I am now resigned to the fact Legion game play will be reworked. My gaming group having been talking and we're putting Legion into wait and see mode even though we're casual skirmish players. Warmachine had a bad habit of fluctuating unit power levels up and down to create sales, so no new purchases for a while.

This kind of thing is why I only play "dead" games - easier to put in the effort to get a local scene going for an old game than it is to deal with the new release treadmill or big business-driven events like this. Viewing things in pure Eff You Jack I Got Mine mode, so long as these new bods keep making the models for me to use in various third party skirmish games and the old D6 ruleset, I'm sorted.

Outside of that though, this is bloody dire. I actually do want to believe it's the vulture capitalists at PAI who're behind this, because it's more comforting to believe nobody else could be so callous they'd choose to make a bunch of folk - especially when those folk are one of the main reasons for the company's successes - redundant during a bloody economy-wrecking pandemic. I mean crikey, it's not like they couldn't have the game design staff keep working remotely for another 6-12 months and then - if necessary - let them go once things have hopefully stabilised a little bit.

I just wish we knew more. It seems odd to me to keep your patrons in the dark. They came out with a press release, why not give an adequate amount of info, like will the developers be joining at a bare minimum. It is possible that the devs didn’t want to move, but if AMG decided to “go their own direction” that could be really bad. I thought Luke and Alex were amazingly creative and came up with some fun and great units, but overall and even on a per unit basis, balance eluded them. That being said, I wouldn’t throw the baby out with the bath water, I had always hoped that a third member would be hired that was focused mostly on balance, so they could say, that’s an amazing idea, but way too powerful, or, you gave one faction a real master piece, but the other faction just got meh, so let’s fix it before it goes to the factory. Anyway, I have my fingers crossed, and if Alex or Luke have been let go or decided not to move, may the force be with them, always.

@JediPartisan I mean, customers are often treated like mushrooms...

Especially with stuff like this that is still in progress. They might not have a finalized list of people who are moving over, and it is better to feed out good new rather than bad. So instead of focusing on people losing their job, focus on the possibilities of new games, or future development of current games.

1 hour ago, JediPartisan said:

I just wish we knew more. It seems odd to me to keep your patrons in the dark. They came out with a press release, why not give an adequate amount of info, like will the developers be joining at a bare minimum. It is possible that the devs didn’t want to move, but if AMG decided to “go their own direction” that could be really bad. I thought Luke and Alex were amazingly creative and came up with some fun and great units, but overall and even on a per unit basis, balance eluded them. That being said, I wouldn’t throw the baby out with the bath water, I had always hoped that a third member would be hired that was focused mostly on balance, so they could say, that’s an amazing idea, but way too powerful, or, you gave one faction a real master piece, but the other faction just got meh, so let’s fix it before it goes to the factory. Anyway, I have my fingers crossed, and if Alex or Luke have been let go or decided not to move, may the force be with them, always.

A lot of it is standard operating procedure for businesses. Its generally not okay to publicly share who has been laid off or fired, so it makes sense they are focusing on who is there and not who is gone. Im sure those that got laid off have NDA's too.

This is pretty foreboding imo. When I watched Alex Davey's interview on the Legion Academy, he seemed to really have a passion for the game and Star Wars. The fact that the design team is getting let go by and large feels like a money decision to me, which is bad news. Who knows, maybe there was some kind of bad blood going on, but it didn't seem like it. It's pretty strange that they aren't even offering people other positions, just cut and go. Especially as the only press announcement doesn't say, "These people are moving on, thanks for your work."

I would not be surprised at all if more predatory practices make their way into the Star Wars games from now on. If Asmodee is willing to restructure and get rid of people like that, they're going to be willing to do other things as well. Things like price increases, rulebook spam, less customization per model, and overpowered units are all possible.

15 minutes ago, KommanderKeldoth said:

A lot of it is standard operating procedure for businesses. Its generally not okay to publicly share who has been laid off or fired, so it makes sense they are focusing on who is there and not who is gone. Im sure those that got laid off have NDA's too.

I'm uncertain how common non-competes are for the gaming industry, but that is also a possibility.

3 hours ago, Kwatchi said:

Warmachine had a bad habit of fluctuating unit power levels up and down to create sales, so no new purchases for a while.

This has me deeply concerned for all the games they moved over.

2 hours ago, JediPartisan said:

I just wish we knew more. It seems odd to me to keep your patrons in the dark. They came out with a press release, why not give an adequate amount of info, like will the developers be joining at a bare minimum. It is possible that the devs didn’t want to move, but if AMG decided to “go their own direction” that could be really bad.

Because they want to keep it positive, and telling us too much can only create things for us to be disgruntled about.

11 hours ago, Lochlan said:

If Alex and Luke are still on board I personally wouldn't be worried about this. But if Alex is indeed gone and Luke is indeed potentially gone, this I think is a huge concern.

As if x-wing 2.0 didn't invalidate x-wing 1.0...

I am sorry, I don't agree with most people around here saying they hope that the game don't change and even wanting the same developers still working on it. I may be on the minority side, but I find that the game they have designed is a failed attempt on what could have been a great star wars WARgame. It is a boardgame with beautiful tokens, not a miniature wargame. They have not been able to translate the miniature battle genre to their cards, tokens, 2d vision, 2d rules... I feel they simply have tried to include some nice mechanics from another wargames, bit their game was, without even notice, a boardgame. Still feels as if it was not designed with true line of sight in mind, or with rules for hills, buildings, templates, area effects, terrain... everything feels like a 2d boardgame (and they even sold 2d products such as the horrible matts), complete with cards, dices, even the rulers and templates seems different from what we, miniature gamers, are used to. So I really get the news with hope, but hope in the other direction. Hope someone finally makes a good game with star wars miniatures. And another complaint (sorry, I am happy with changes) I though this was going to be a LEGION sized game, a game of tons of infantry units fighting against more infantry, with spec units, elite, a few vehicles, and of course VERY FEW heroes, considering that the heroes squirmishing slot was taken by imperial assault. But no, justo no. They designed a thing in between imperial assault and 40k, but there was not the grandeur and epic feeling of a 40k or bolt action army. And having Palpatine around the table bursting electric rays was the icing in the cake. Not for me. So I hope it changes, a lot. And I think switching to a MINIATURE games company is directing the game the way it should have been since the beginning

1 hour ago, Tubb said:

I am sorry, I don't agree with most people around here saying they hope that the game don't change and even wanting the same developers still working on it. I may be on the minority side, but I find that the game they have designed is a failed attempt on what could have been a great star wars WARgame. It is a boardgame with beautiful tokens, not a miniature wargame. They have not been able to translate the miniature battle genre to their cards, tokens, 2d vision, 2d rules... I feel they simply have tried to include some nice mechanics from another wargames, bit their game was, without even notice, a boardgame. Still feels as if it was not designed with true line of sight in mind, or with rules for hills, buildings, templates, area effects, terrain... everything feels like a 2d boardgame (and they even sold 2d products such as the horrible matts), complete with cards, dices, even the rulers and templates seems different from what we, miniature gamers, are used to. So I really get the news with hope, but hope in the other direction. Hope someone finally makes a good game with star wars miniatures. And another complaint (sorry, I am happy with changes) I though this was going to be a LEGION sized game, a game of tons of infantry units fighting against more infantry, with spec units, elite, a few vehicles, and of course VERY FEW heroes, considering that the heroes squirmishing slot was taken by imperial assault. But no, justo no. They designed a thing in between imperial assault and 40k, but there was not the grandeur and epic feeling of a 40k or bolt action army. And having Palpatine around the table bursting electric rays was the icing in the cake. Not for me. So I hope it changes, a lot. And I think switching to a MINIATURE games company is directing the game the way it should have been since the beginning

I doubt you are going to get what you want. AMG makes a superhero skirmish game and just becuase the designers and developers are changing doesnt necessarily mean they are changing the entire genre of the game.

8 hours ago, Darth Sanguis said:

Luke has a chance to reapply, but the city is almost twice the cost, so not sure where that lands.

AMG is in Seattle, FFG is in Minneapolis, is that what you mean by city being twice the cost?

1 hour ago, Tubb said:

I am sorry, I don't agree with most people around here saying they hope that the game don't change and even wanting the same developers still working on it. I may be on the minority side, but I find that the game they have designed is a failed attempt on what could have been a great star wars WARgame. It is a boardgame with beautiful tokens, not a miniature wargame. They have not been able to translate the miniature battle genre to their cards, tokens, 2d vision, 2d rules... I feel they simply have tried to include some nice mechanics from another wargames, bit their game was, without even notice, a boardgame. Still feels as if it was not designed with true line of sight in mind, or with rules for hills, buildings, templates, area effects, terrain... everything feels like a 2d boardgame (and they even sold 2d products such as the horrible matts), complete with cards, dices, even the rulers and templates seems different from what we, miniature gamers, are used to. So I really get the news with hope, but hope in the other direction. Hope someone finally makes a good game with star wars miniatures. And another complaint (sorry, I am happy with changes) I though this was going to be a LEGION sized game, a game of tons of infantry units fighting against more infantry, with spec units, elite, a few vehicles, and of course VERY FEW heroes, considering that the heroes squirmishing slot was taken by imperial assault. But no, justo no. They designed a thing in between imperial assault and 40k, but there was not the grandeur and epic feeling of a 40k or bolt action army. And having Palpatine around the table bursting electric rays was the icing in the cake. Not for me. So I hope it changes, a lot. And I think switching to a MINIATURE games company is directing the game the way it should have been since the beginning

I know this is a sticking point for you as you've been very vocal about it in the past, but all of that wouldn't feel like Star Wars to me. I think it would lose the theme entirely. At that scale, the characters become less and less important, and then you're just playing a less interesting Bolt Action or 40k (both of which have a theme that works much better as far as war goes). You'd probably have to scale the models down to the point where it'd hurt the hobbyists as well if you wanted an actual "legion" of miniatures. And personally, I like not having to buy anywhere near as much as I would have to for a Games Workshop type of debacle. That means I can put funds into other games, like Armada or even actual board games.

I understand where you're coming from, I just disagree with the sentiment completely. I've played Star Wars board games including Imperial Assault, the difference is apparent. I'm sorry you don't feel the same way, and I honestly wouldn't bet on the new company rewriting the rules for how the game works to this degree. Even in X-Wing 2.0 you didn't have to buy all your models all over again, which this sort of change would necessitate in Legion.

EDIT: That said, the Atomic press release noted that they have ideas for more miniature games moving forward, so it's not out of the realm of possibility you'll eventually get that massive army Star Wars game with At-ATs walking around and blasting whole armies to pieces. I just sincerely doubt that Legion is the vehicle for that sort of game.

4 hours ago, Tubb said:

I am sorry, I don't agree with most people around here saying they hope that the game don't change and even wanting the same developers still working on it. I may be on the minority side, but I find that the game they have designed is a failed attempt on what could have been a great star wars WARgame. It is a boardgame with beautiful tokens, not a miniature wargame. They have not been able to translate the miniature battle genre to their cards, tokens, 2d vision, 2d rules... I feel they simply have tried to include some nice mechanics from another wargames, bit their game was, without even notice, a boardgame. Still feels as if it was not designed with true line of sight in mind, or with rules for hills, buildings, templates, area effects, terrain... everything feels like a 2d boardgame (and they even sold 2d products such as the horrible matts), complete with cards, dices, even the rulers and templates seems different from what we, miniature gamers, are used to. So I really get the news with hope, but hope in the other direction. Hope someone finally makes a good game with star wars miniatures. And another complaint (sorry, I am happy with changes) I though this was going to be a LEGION sized game, a game of tons of infantry units fighting against more infantry, with spec units, elite, a few vehicles, and of course VERY FEW heroes, considering that the heroes squirmishing slot was taken by imperial assault. But no, justo no. They designed a thing in between imperial assault and 40k, but there was not the grandeur and epic feeling of a 40k or bolt action army. And having Palpatine around the table bursting electric rays was the icing in the cake. Not for me. So I hope it changes, a lot. And I think switching to a MINIATURE games company is directing the game the way it should have been since the beginning

I don't agree with this conceit that miniature games lack tokens, cards, etc. Warmahordes, where most of the devs from AMG migrated from, used tons of tokens and cards. I daresay more tokens than Legion uses to mark AOEs, buffs, etc. I also think tokens add to the experience, not detract, and let your mind not worry about tracking tons of things at once. 3rd ed 40k suffered from this greatly to the point that I'd sometimes forget which units activated.

I'm in the camp of thinking Crisis Protocol has fine minis and decent ideas, but ultimately created a collectible game with boring objectives. Some ideas were great, but I found all games I played to be overly dicey and boring. I think Legion struck a nice balance between randomness and static, and they were good about iterating on their rules. Outside of Kill Team, best minis game I've played.

I don't think anyone wants to see AMG fail here. But I also don't want to see a Legion 2.0 with new models/rules. Best of both worlds would be keep Legion going as is while adding their own signatures to it and create a separate skirmish game like Crisis Protocol but make the missions interesting.

I expect a huge change in the game (s).

That's in order to avoid keep paying royalties to people no more working on the producys but still appearing as authors of the game.

So the have to completly change the game in order to cancel old authors.

GW did the same years ago to get rid of rick priestley and stop paying him royalties for a game he had not touched in years but still saw him as author...

6 hours ago, Tubb said:

I am sorry, I don't agree with most people around here saying they hope that the game don't change and even wanting the same developers still working on it. I may be on the minority side, but I find that the game they have designed is a failed attempt on what could have been a great star wars WARgame...

First of all, that's a pretty callous comment when the people in question read these forums. There's a good chance a lot of people are out of the job. People who clearly had a passion and understanding of star wars.

Second, if there's that much wrong with the game then just let it go amd get on with life. I wanted a star wars mini game for years but didnt think imperial assault was for me, so I just passed it up. No big deal. X wing also lacked the home made feel, though I do like the game. Many of us love Legion and don't want drastic changes after investing so much time money and effort.

There's an awful lot of speculation here but not a lot of concrete information. Yes I read the posts from a guys saying he's an ex-ffg employee saying that he's in contact with those that got laid off but him sayingthat doesn't mean it's true. Not saying it isn't but there's no way we will no till further down the track.

Also I doubt this was a sudden move. There would be a hand over of what people are working on, what designs are coming up, their ideas and thoughts of where things were headed. X-wing alone is a money horse for asmodee so they're not going to pull the plug on the current designers and throw it to someone completely new without any sort of overlap and hand over. Yes I am speculating here but so is everyone at this point.

2 hours ago, toffolone said:

I expect a huge change in the game (s).

That's in order to avoid keep paying royalties to people no more working on the producys but still appearing as authors of the game.

So the have to completly change the game in order to cancel old authors.

GW did the same years ago to get rid of rick priestley and stop paying him royalties for a game he had not touched in years but still saw him as author...

40k is still recognisably 40k, though