2 minutes ago, Darth Sanguis said:

If that were really case why did we see a surge in players with the clone war factions? Even on the rebel and imp sides? Sure there's definitely the people who joined for the clone wars thematics, but we saw growth all around. Clones and droids changed a lot of the game, surges, clone and droid troopers. It was Major. The game is still great, better even. While it was part of the original design teams goal we have no reason to believe change wouldn't do this game a lot of good too.

I enjoyed the handful of games I played during the GCW, but I refused to join this game when it had TWO factions. The idea of constantly playing one of two possible armies was a huge turn off for me, and CW doubled the number. I suspect other folks may have had similar mentalities to mine.

2 minutes ago, Mokoshkana said:

I enjoyed the handful of games I played during the GCW, but I refused to join this game when it had TWO factions. The idea of constantly playing one of two possible armies was a huge turn off for me, and CW doubled the number. I suspect other folks may have had similar mentalities to mine.

So yes, the changes that were made improved the game for you. Same here. now that I've player droids I couldn't go back to the other factions. They are both mechanically and thematically boring.


My point is, change isn't inherently bad. In your own way, you affirmed that it's true for you in this case as well.

@Darth Sanguis Good bones on a game are all well and good, but it also matters how the game develops from there. In all honestly the Privateer Press link actually makes me a bit concerned rather than assuage my concerns. To me, Warmahordes seems plagued with power creep and DOA units, far worse than Legion at present to my understanding. Even with the Clone Wars I don't view that as a "drastic" change. A definite change, akin in my mind to taking Legion out of open Beta into a released version, but not drastic in the sense of extensively redoing pre-existing keywords, or a "Legion 2.0."

I agree it is beyond our control, I don't think there are claims otherwise. But removing the design team either on purpose or because they don't want to relocate to the AMG headquarters doesn't indicate an intention to keep things on the same course. We have no ways of knowing whether this is good or bad, just change. We can theorize that specific changes are good or bad, but I do agree that while the designers being fired isn't innately bad for the game (although it is bad for them, hopefully they land on their feet), it is worth noting as the unit design we have been seeing is likely to be changed.

I'm also curious as to if they are going to be continuing with the same playtesting, or as going in a different direction. Right now the playtesters are people who qualified for Worlds, which means all of Legion goes through competitive players (for good or ill). MCP doesn't have that, the playtesters are taken from applicants, and it is my understanding they get cycled with decent regularity. There are advantages and disadvantages to each setup.

As an aside, were the Warmahordes designers involved in the organized play planning, or was that a separate team? Many companies have organized play as a different department from rules development. AMG doesn't really have much in the way of Organized Play, which is noteworthy to me.

7 minutes ago, Darth Sanguis said:

So yes, the changes that were made improved the game for you. Same here. now that I've player droids I couldn't go back to the other factions. They are both mechanically and thematically boring.


My point is, change isn't inherently bad. In your own way, you affirmed that it's true for you in this case as well.

You're correct that change is not inherently bad. However, CW added new facets to Legion, it did not completely overhaul the original design. Alex and Luke have been at the helm since the beginning, and have earned the trust of the community through their actions (both good and bad). I do not play MCP, and even if I did, I would still be incredibly apprehensive with their assumption of the creative control of legion without Alex and/or Luke.

6 minutes ago, Darth Sanguis said:

So yes, the changes that were made improved the game for you. Same here. now that I've player droids I couldn't go back to the other factions. They are both mechanically and thematically boring.


My point is, change isn't inherently bad. In your own way, you affirmed that it's true for you in this case as well.

I agree change isn't necessarily bad and frankly change can mean a game continues to get resources and grow. However what if when the last 2 factions were added, they also re-did all the GCW stuff. Meaning anyone who bought two starters, and extra speeder bike, atst, etc now have to re-buy that exact same content to be relevant, or in the case of X Wing 2.0 an upgrade pack (I would actually do this). That is my worry.

23 minutes ago, Darth Sanguis said:

Then it's beyond our control. Personally I can't see why a company that owns a very successful IP would want to change anything, but if they do that's the way it is.


If that were really case why did we see a surge in players with the clone war factions? Even on the rebel and imp sides? Sure there's definitely the people who joined for the clone wars thematics, but we saw growth all around. Clones and droids changed a lot of the game, surges, clone and droid troopers. It was Major. The game is still great, better even. While it was part of the original design teams goal we have no reason to believe change wouldn't do this game a lot of good too.


I suspect if there is any noticeable change we'll have the usual kneejerk, "I don't like change" we always do but when it comes down to it these people aren't amateurs like me, their stuff will work. (Let's also keep in mind, I'm not a game designer. My ideas were not shaped by decades of games development experience. They're just ideas I, the average tabletop player, had.)

I am not saying it will be bad. I am saying it could be bad. And as others have pointed out, expanding the game (by adding more factions) is completely different than making core mechanical changes to the game, or even changing the design philosophy for future units.

An example of how a move like this can be bad would be the World of Warcraft card game. The game was originally designed and published by Upper Deck, however was later moved to Cryptozoic. Cryptozoic's first expansion blew everything that came before it completely out of the water, which certainly turned a lot of fans off from the game. A similar thing happened with Magic: The Gathering when Hasbro acquired Wizards of the Coast, with not only obvious power creep but also changing the design of the cards, though M:TG was (and continues to be) big enough to easily weather any changes like that.

@Lochlan @Mokoshkana @Caimheul1313 @Uetur

Fair enough, that said, I still think we should stay these feelings of worry.


Ultimately we know so little about what's going on worrying about it at this stage is a waste of energy and really more hurtful to yourselves than anyone else. Breathe deep friends.

We don't know that Alex and Luke are actually out. There are a lot of rumors and second hand/unconfirmed info out there. Even if they do end up being out, let's wait to see what happens.

Agreed there is a lot of rumour. I'd still rather spend my time discussing possible futures of a miniatures game than reading the news right now.... 😛 My "concern" is more of the form of "this is a possible outcome that I wish to discuss" as opposed to "I am actively worried about this."
At the end of the day, even if the game changes to something that isn't recognizable as the original Legion or even still "fun," it's still a source of decent quality miniatures that can be used for any number of fan made conversions of other ruleset.
I mean, there's Stargrave coming out next year (Sci-fi version of Frostgrave) for skirmish, not to mention I've seen Star Wars variants of a few historical wargames.
So even if things do go belly up, we still have what has been released thus far, and I can't imagine the community letting it go away in all forms.

5 minutes ago, Darth Sanguis said:

@Lochlan @Mokoshkana @Caimheul1313 @Uetur

Fair enough, that said, I still think we should stay these feelings of worry.


Ultimately we know so little about what's going on worrying about it at this stage is a waste of energy and really more hurtful to yourselves than anyone else. Breathe deep friends.

We don't know that Alex and Luke are actually out. There are a lot of rumors and second hand/unconfirmed info out there. Even if they do end up being out, let's wait to see what happens.

I feel the same way, we don't know nearly enough yet. Personally if they had waited until more information could have been told at once or had waited for a livestream to tell us so we could ask questions, that would have been better, but obviously not what we got so we have to deal.

That being said, Alex and Luke are the creators and were pretty involved with community members (discussions, discords, forums, podcasts, live commentary) and I would hate to see them depart from FFG and their star wars IPs as a whole. They did a lot for the games and for the community with the resource they had, would be a shame for them to be let go (assuming that is true)

News!

https://www.atomicmassgames.com/starwars-qa?fbclid=IwAR3fDZcEtenPREjgbfMhek4C3X-oGYbSh16nDFkbQ5PGzAcReXHckmHIRgA

6 minutes ago, Darth Sanguis said:

News!

https://www.atomicmassgames.com/starwars-qa?fbclid=IwAR3fDZcEtenPREjgbfMhek4C3X-oGYbSh16nDFkbQ5PGzAcReXHckmHIRgA

Haha more of a fluff piece from my point of view.

1 minute ago, Mokoshkana said:

Haha more of a fluff piece from my point of view.

I don't think they really told us anything besides a few Star Wars puns 😅

Yeah not much to go on. Still, it does seem proactive to say something instead of nothing. As an Armada player it's already a plus lol

I don't like the end where they are looking to add more Star Wars mini games. I'm worried they focus on their own brainchildren and backseat their adopted games.

Still too early to tell. But it sounds like Alex and Luke who were the heart of the game are being left out. I've got a bad feeling about this.

10 minutes ago, Weikel said:

I don't like the end where they are looking to add more Star Wars mini games.

Imperial Assault Skirmish was my favorite game out of the lot. It's one of the reasons I like playing Marvel Crisis Protocol (there are some similar gameplay scenario and you can build/customize your team) I would love a reskin or IA reboot (they could even use Legion sized minis if they wanted)

Haven't bought anything of the newest stuff and been waiting for the new rules reference. With the vague information we are getting I'm gonna hold of buying anything new untill we learn more. Who knows what kind of changes we will see or if legion is gonna be turned into a legacy game in favour of new stuff.

1 minute ago, jocke01 said:

Haven't bought anything of the newest stuff and been waiting for the new rules reference. With the vague information we are getting I'm gonna hold of buying anything new untill we learn more. Who knows what kind of changes we will see or if legion is gonna be turned into a legacy game in favour of new stuff.

I doubt they would have bothered moving it if the plan was immediately to turn it to a legacy game. But time will tell.

2 minutes ago, Caimheul1313 said:

I doubt they would have bothered moving it if the plan was immediately to turn it to a legacy game. But time will tell.

It wouldn't be the first time a game I play gets cancelled or dropped. Not gonna take any chances.

Does this studio have a history of keeping miniature games going for a long time or is it crank it out and shut the lights off when the last one is released? The bottom of Atomic's Q&A press release is a bit unsettling, ideas for there own Star Wars mini games... Too bad they couldn't have talked more about that. But they do acknowledge it to be a lifestyle game and an investment. So maybe it won't be so bad.

2 minutes ago, John79 said:

Does this studio have a history of keeping miniature games going for a long time or is it crank it out and shut the lights off when the last one is released? The bottom of Atomic's Q&A press release is a bit unsettling, ideas for there own Star Wars mini games... Too bad they couldn't have talked more about that. But they do acknowledge it to be a lifestyle game and an investment. So maybe it won't be so bad.

Marvel Crisis Protocol is the only game they have ever made as a studio. A lot of the staff have a long history of miniatures game design, but the studio itself is very new.

3 minutes ago, John79 said:

Does this studio have a history of keeping miniature games going for a long time or is it crank it out and shut the lights off when the last one is released? The bottom of Atomic's Q&A press release is a bit unsettling, ideas for there own Star Wars mini games... Too bad they couldn't have talked more about that. But they do acknowledge it to be a lifestyle game and an investment. So maybe it won't be so bad.

The studio is very new. They started up for Marvel Crisis Protocol, and that so far has been their only product. So we have very little information at all, even about how well the studio will handle having multiple games at the same time.

More news:

I've been poking around on Facebook and a friend of Alex and the gang made it clear the dev teams were essentially purged. Alex, Mike, and Max are all gone. Luke has a chance to reapply, but the city is almost twice the cost, so not sure where that lands.


I know it's very "My uncle works at Nintendo" but I did double check this person's friend list, and confirmed he was in contact with them.

Who is Mike and Max?

Another factor is the FFG team spoke a few times about having a plan laid out for a few years. I think they had gotten approval from Disney/Lucas for a few years worth of projects. If they keep that pipeline in place, it would give the new team time to get up to speed with the direction they want to take things.

6 minutes ago, Geekboy75g said:

Who is Mike and Max?

Michael Gernes and I don't know Max, but that was one of the names they mentioned.