I am quite unhappy with how these work as per the rules.

To my understanding ensnare only stops you using maneuvers for x amount of rounds. It still allows the target to use actions normally such as attacking at range.

Themeactically how does this work? The same applies to the force power bind unless you add extras.

In my head the target should not be able to attack normally if the are ensnared or binded, just does not make sense to me.

Am I just reading this wrong? Does this bother anyone else?

So, typically ensnare might be just tying your legs, stopping you moving?

It's mainly so you can effect players and enemies significantly whilst still enabling them to do something.

So Staggered you can still Maneuver. Immobilized you can still take Actions. Staggered and Immobilized you can only do Incidentals.

As Darzil said, Ensnare isn't completely tying a person up, just immobilizing them. So, it's a bola that wraps around the victim's legs. Or a net that lands on them, but they still have their arms free.

I understand how this could bug you for certain weapons. Why can't the net or bola sometimes catch the target's arms too? I think a simple house rule could be that if you triggered Ensnare, and also roll a Triumph, you can spend it to give the target Staggered, for as long as the target is Immobilized. Doesn't really have to be a house rule, just give the player that option when spending Triumph on a successful Ensnare attack.

A called shot (adding setback) could allow you to choose which effect to go for too - immobilise (so they can't run away), or stagger (can't attack or use arms) ... although I'm more party to Sturn's suggestion.

1 hour ago, Jegergryte said:

A called shot (adding setback) could allow you to choose which effect to go for too - immobilise (so they can't run away), or stagger (can't attack or use arms) ... although I'm more party to Sturn's suggestion.

I disagree with allowing Staggered, as now stunlocking an opponent becomes much easier.

2 hours ago, Sturn said:

I understand how this could bug you for certain weapons. Why can't the net or bola sometimes catch the target's arms too? I think a simple house rule could be that if you triggered Ensnare, and also roll a Triumph, you can spend it to give the target Staggered, for as long as the target is Immobilized. Doesn't really have to be a house rule, just give the player that option when spending Triumph on a successful Ensnare attack.

The bola (and net, I think, since it's listed together) actually has a rule that you can spend a Triumph to ensure that the target is so entangled that their only action each round is a Formidable Athletics check. I think extending this to some other weapons at GM discretion is a good idea.

I understand @Humantorch101 's objections, as I've shared them in some regards. With some weapons, it really just doesn't make sense that you could not walk, but still have completely free range of motion with your arms.

19 minutes ago, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

I disagree with allowing Staggered, as now stunlocking an opponent becomes much easier.

There was an "or" in my suggestions, plus setback dice additions, but sure. It makes it somewhat easier if you throw several bolas/nets after one another. I can see how it may be abused.

17 minutes ago, Jegergryte said:

There was an "or" in my suggestions, plus setback dice additions, but sure. It makes it somewhat easier if you throw several bolas/nets after one another. I can see how it may be abused.

I saw the or, but I still disagree. Besides, it's not just bolas or nets, there are other weapons (like the Bola Carbine, for example) that have the Ensnare quality.

I think a better solution might be to simply add a number of Setback to actions that use Brawn or Agility.

Ah, you're - fairly - assuming I'm suggesting changing how the quality works, not how individual weapons work. I was thinking about certain weapons (not explicated), so my bad.

But, the bola gun, or the stokhli spray stick ... with a called shot, I'd be open to consider that arms being ensnared, in effect preventing actions that involves the hands/arms - except getting out of the ensnare effect.

55 minutes ago, Jegergryte said:

Ah, you're - fairly - assuming I'm suggesting changing how the quality works, not how individual weapons work. I was thinking about certain weapons (not explicated), so my bad.

But, the bola gun, or the stokhli spray stick ... with a called shot, I'd be open to consider that arms being ensnared, in effect preventing actions that involves the hands/arms - except getting out of the ensnare effect.

Part of the issue is that Maneuvers cover more than just running. They include things like Aiming, shuffling gear, etc. all of which if you can swing a sword, you can probably perform.

I think Ensnare could be improved by operating similarly to Crippled. Then your suggestion of Called Shot on certain weapons to Ensnare arms vs. legs, or an additional Triumph to get both, works better.

True.

They are abstractions, and therefore imprecise. This is why I'd allow ensnare to prevent someone to attack someone if they had been hit by a called shot to the arms by a net/bola/stokhli spray stick - in addition to being unable to shuffle gear, aim (for next round) or whatever.

Similarly, I'd disallow moving, and perhaps other manoeuvres in some cases of being Staggered too - if the narrative dictates that it is the only thing that makes sense.

Around my table the narrative is sacrosanct.

But as a more general house-rule, I'm up for the suggestions above too. Ensnare would definitely benefit from your suggestion.

Ensnare, or immobilised, is a condition that implies movement, i.e. changing location, but it also implies movement using arms. For some weapons, and grapple-like attacks. Ensnare could restrict one of the two at a time, and hamper (i.e. cripple) the other. It's getting too detailed of course, but the suspension of disbelief can be hard to uphold around the table when conditions work contrary to logic, and the narrative, so a coin flip to decide whether it is the locomotive limbs or the manipulator limbs that are immobilised, could work - on a normal attack.