So I know MMPs aren't highly rated, as they're overcosted, AND we don't know the cost of WSO, but...

If you focus or calculate and fire the MMP, you should be able to get a lock.

This is really good, right? especially on Tie bombers where MMP has max value as its a 2 die single arc ship.

Only issue i see is opponent slow rolling/kiting to keep out of range 1&2.

Thoughts?

Probably going to be cost prohibitive on the TIE/sa. I'd bet it's going to cost at least 5 points.

The TIE/sa should probably use its roll>lock link to get bullseyes with MMPs anyway, when it can.

Sidenote: 5x TIE/sa /w MMP, conc bombs, and skiled bombardier is one **** of a list.

1 hour ago, Scum4Life said:

So I know MMPs aren't highly rated, as they're overcosted, AND we don't know the cost of WSO, but...

If you focus or calculate and fire the MMP, you should be able to get a lock.

This is really good, right? especially on Tie bombers where MMP has max value as its a 2 die single arc ship.

Only issue i see is opponent slow rolling/kiting to keep out of range 1&2.

Thoughts?

MMP is only Calc or Lock to fire, so no Focus and MMP for Bombers. They have to get the lock first, fire them, use WSO to get the lock back. Not, for me, worth it.

1 hour ago, Scum4Life said:

So I know MMPs aren't highly rated, as they're overcosted, AND we don't know the cost of WSO, but...

If you focus or calculate and fire the MMP, you should be able to get a lock.

This is really good, right? especially on Tie bombers where MMP has max value as its a 2 die single arc ship.

Only issue i see is opponent slow rolling/kiting to keep out of range 1&2.

Thoughts?

Nice, to be sure. But getting free Locks for next turn is always going to be very slow. Having a nice 2nd round with these missiles is probably pretty nice, you can do something like a flip-move behind and still use them. 1e FCS was pretty good, but there was a narrow range of ships where it was very strong. Most B-Wings never cared about it, for example.

7 hours ago, InterceptorMad said:

MMP is only Calc or Lock to fire, so no Focus and MMP for Bombers. They have to get the lock first, fire them, use WSO to get the lock back. Not, for me, worth it.

You are correct, my mistake.

8 hours ago, Cerebrawl said:

The TIE/sa should probably use its roll>lock link to get bullseyes with MMPs anyway, when it can.

WAIT.

That incredible dude is a GUNNER?

Absolute game-changer for rebels. Also possibly phenomenal for Scum, which has been missing out on good Lock triggers.

And yeah, my TIE Bombers are positively drooling. Double Mods for days. Note that the lock is free , with a requirement but no cost. You can spend your lock and get a free one anyway, then focus next turn and double-mod, ad infinitum.

And thread tracers make it easier to get in the first place too. Oooooooooooooooooooooooooo

What kind of stuff does Dutch do with a Weapons Systems Officer? It would give him a way of sharing two locks per turn potentially. Practically it would more likely be one per turn, though it still leaves him free to focus for double-mods.

What about Shara Bey? If she uses a torp on one attack (maybe ion or plasma) she can spend the free lock to super-mod the next attack. That has the potential for a lot of attack dice.

It also represents a sort of 1.0 fire-control system for Jumpmasters with torps. Not likely to get a lot of mileage there though.

When I first saw it I thought it might help Latts pilot (YV-666) but that seems unlikely based on timing. If there's some excuse to give her thread tracers maybe, but still doesn't seem too promising.

Missile TIE/sfs might like it okay but PS is usually better. Depends on price here I guess.

Synced Console ARCs, and Y-Wings can get the double-mods and still pass the lock, which is nifty but maybe not worth the price. LAATs don't really need it anyway.

Really the TIE Bomber seems like the real home for this guy.

11 minutes ago, ClassicalMoser said:

What kind of stuff does Dutch do with a Weapons Systems Officer? It would give him a way of sharing two locks per turn potentially. Practically it would more likely be one per turn, though it still leaves him free to focus for double-mods.

Nope, it's a "acquire a lock", not "perform lock action". Dutch can't share it.

So this card is only useful if you actually spend the target lock that allowed the special attack? This doesn't get around the limitation of 1 target lock?

At first, I misread and thought it gave a target lock as soon as you initiated an attack with a special weapon, but that wouldn't make sense...

8 hours ago, boow said:

So this card is only useful if you actually spend the target lock that allowed the special attack? This doesn't get around the limitation of 1 target lock?

At first, I misread and thought it gave a target lock as soon as you initiated an attack with a special weapon, but that wouldn't make sense...

Pretty much. It is decent action economy. Get back the lock you just spent.

Good for the Republic ARCs with Synchronized Console. First ship takes lock, fires (possible spends lock but re-acquires), spends lock to send it to another ship which of course focused. Expensive, but the rest down the line would get double mods. But expensive, so not a long line.

K-wings with WSO, MMP, advanced torps, and 3PO or K2 would be a good combination

On 12/12/2020 at 11:38 PM, Borg7of11 said:

Pretty much. It is decent action economy. Get back the lock you just spent.

Good for the Republic ARCs with Synchronized Console. First ship takes lock, fires (possible spends lock but re-acquires), spends lock to send it to another ship which of course focused. Expensive, but the rest down the line would get double mods. But expensive, so not a long line.

This might be a dull NPE to play against but...

I5 lock capability, double mods, massive control, alot of arc coverage and huge carpet bombing runs.

Hot take. I really think Weapons Officer is far too expensive. Verging on unusable... slight hyperbole, but still.

Lock based munitions have a fair bit of counterplay as it is and multiple charges often go unspent. If you roll up hits and don't need to spend your lock, great, but you've paid 7pt for a free lock on your 2nd, and maybe last charge, probably on a ship that's wrecked before you fire on it again.

I can see the obvious benefits, it's potentially strong, but it's also potentially very weak. Best case scenario seems a lot rarer than the worst.

With all the lock sharing now, Tracers, Sync, WO, it's limited to 1 enemy ship. That ship may get utterly destroyed, if you play it well. And so might 1 more, if you play that well too. And that's your punch gone and your points spent. Quite likely they have something decent still on the table. Making them the feature of a list feels like a trap to me.

Sync and Tracers are cheap, so they can be included as an economy bonus and obviously work for all your primaries. Using them as an element of the list makes for a small swing between best/worst case.

It's a potentially useful card, but it needs to come down in price 1st. Like, cheap enough to be broke on Dengar, Redline..... 😕

14 hours ago, Cuz05 said:

Hot take. I really think Weapons Officer is far too expensive. Verging on unusable... slight hyperbole, but still.

Is that really that hot? It seems kind of obvious it's way too expensive.

9 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

Is that really that hot? It seems kind of obvious it's way too expensive.

I will happily admit that I do not understand how net-speak works

40 minutes ago, Cuz05 said:

I will happily admit that I do not understand how net-speak works

Fair enough.

And there's kind of two ways to use Hot Take, that are kind of opposite.

1. First is when something is fast and attention grabbing and probably "controversial". Usually based on simple moralizing rather than nuanced thought.
2. Second is when something is obvious, but in the context of folks forgetting this fact. "Hot Take: Games Should Be Fun."

11 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

1. First is when something is fast and attention grabbing and probably "controversial".

I believe I went for this one, based on thread context 👍 👍

22 hours ago, Cuz05 said:

I believe I went for this one, based on thread context 👍 👍

True, and I get your point as I saw the same thing at first glance. Honestly, most don't care about forum grammar as we blaze through to the points attempted and hey, you could be sitting in front of a roaring fire or even sipping a tropical infusion on a Caribbean beach for all we know.

Personally, I'm simply in wonder that there is something that might make TIE/sa table usable again (or actually, really usable for once in the game -insert laugh here). The best use I got out of them in their gaming history (oddly enough) was under a 1.0 Gozanti taking out Rebel blockade runners... fun to be sure and quite punchy. I'm still trying to get my feet wet on all this 2.0 gear beyond FO. When you test and run a good list, let us know, the TIE/sa's need to find their power niche.

2 hours ago, clanofwolves said:

the TIE/sa's need to find their power niche.

I think they recently may have tbh, but it doesn't feature a Weapons Officer.

Basically, load up on cheap bombs, Bombadiers and some missiles IIRC. Seems quite efficient and makes good use of the ship ability. I've not seen it in action and can't testify to the specifics without delving into List Fortress, but it's in there with some good showings.

2 hours ago, clanofwolves said:

make TIE/sa table usable again

I'm sure @SOTL would say that they're already usable, and I'd agree.

2/2/6 for 27 points with a respectable dial is incredibly good value. XX-23 S-Thread Traccers, Ion Missiles, and Bomblet Generator are all 2 points each, so there's a tonne of great upgrade options.

5 hours ago, Cuz05 said:

I think they recently may have tbh, but it doesn't feature a Weapons Officer.

Basically, load up on cheap bombs, Bombadiers and some missiles IIRC. Seems quite efficient and makes good use of the ship ability. I've not seen it in action and can't testify to the specifics without delving into List Fortress, but it's in there with some good showings.

Doug Howe flew 5 TIE/sa's with Skilled Bombardier and Thermal Detonators and a Nu Squadron Starwing with a Tractor Beam. One of the Bombers has Thread Tracers, and one might have had an Ion missiles.

6 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

2/2/6 for 27 points with a respectable dial is incredibly good value. XX-23 S-Thread Traccers, Ion Missiles, and Bomblet Generator are all 2 points each, so there's a tonne of great upgrade options.

Bigger point here: Proton bombs are back down to 4. For me that's a game-changer.

You can take six of these things with Proton Bombs and Ion missiles/thread tracers (and one guy gets to double up). These things are decent with munitions but they are unparalleled bombers.

Honestly they're probably a point too cheap, but unfortunately the Gamma is clearly at least a point too expensive. Would love some generics with talents but it ain't going to happen when you have to spend 3 points before paying for the talent 😕

But no, Weapons Systems Officer is hot garbage. Maybe usable at 3 points, probably still not really. 7 is an abject joke.