I was rereading the RR and came across an interesting question regarding actions. Per the RR "a ship cannot perform the same action more than once during a single round" and "If a ship has multiple damage cards with the same name, each damage card's ability is a different action".

Based on those two statements, if a ship has two weapons failures can it clear both in the same round if it is coordinated? The first statement makes me think you can't since you can't perform the same action more than once in a round, but the second statement makes me think you can if each instance is a separate action.

If you follow the "yes you can" logic that opens up more questions about what if you have multiple instances of an action on your action bar? Is each individual instance then a separate action, or are similar actions with different difficulties considered separate from each other? Based on the wording for Poe and Daredevil (treating a white action as red), I'm inclined to think a red action is separate from a white action in terms of instances.

Has there ever been an official statement on this? I believe the intent is that each type of action can only be performed once, but the rules make it a bit more ambiguous than that.

An example:

Can a ship with Expert Handling perform a white barrel roll then be coordinated to perform the red barrel roll because they are two separate actions of different difficulties, or is that not allowed because both actions are barrel rolls?

i like this find. how ever, it seems that we're going to have to go with the obvious interpretation.

or in other words - yes, you can repair two instances of the same damage card during the same round since they are explicitly stated as different actions. you cannot, how ever, perform the same action twice in a round, even if you have that action available on your action bar in different difficulties. each action is still each action, no matter the difficulty or the source of the action.

Page 3 of the rules reference has your answer:

◊ If a ship has multiple damage cards with the same name, each damage card’s ability is a different action

As for red vs white such as with expert handling, no you cannot red barrel roll and white barrel roll as they are both “barrel roll actions” and you can only perform a barrel roll (or boost) once per round.

Edit: @meffo nailed it. The different upgrades provide different difficulties of the actions but they are still the action, they just provide you different difficulties to attempt the action. For example if you had tac officer on a reaper you could choose the red coordinate if you wanted to disable the ailerons the next the next turn or the white option if you wanted to keep the dial open.

12 minutes ago, missileaway said:

Page 3 of the rules reference has your answer:

◊ If a ship has multiple damage cards with the same name, each damage card’s ability is a different action

As for red vs white such as with expert handling, no you cannot red barrel roll and white barrel roll as they are both “barrel roll actions” and you can only perform a barrel roll (or boost) once per round.

This is where additional clarification is needed. The RR says you cannot perform the same action twice, yet actions on identical action cards are separate. How is being able to clear two weapons failures on two different cards - which is still the same net action - any different from doing two barrel rolls from different instances on your action bar?

Back to page 3 of the RR:

Some upgrade cards have an action bar that lists one or more actions.

These actions are added to the ship’s action bar and therefore are

standard actions that the ship can perform.

That sounds an awful lot like Expert Handling gives you a separate barrel roll action from the red roll on the ship card. How is that functionally any different from actions on multiple damage cards being different actions? I am 100% on board with the fact that you can only perform an action from each little box on the action bar once per round and the premise that the you should only be able to perform each type of action once per round, but I think the rules as they are written give enough ambiguity to allow you to perform multiple instances of the same action as long as they are separate on your action bar.

@Asaverino1019 , I think it can be looked at like this:

- First rule: a ship cannot perform the same action more than once during a single round (e.g. cannot white barrel roll and then coordinate red barrel roll because they are both a “barrel roll action”).

- Second rule: (As an exception to the above rule) If a ship has multiple damage cards of the same name, each damage card’s ability is a different action.

the first rule sets a baseline, then the second rule creates an exception to it in the case of damage cards ONLY - they’re specifically identified such that “Fuel Leak... Repair:...” and “Fuel Leak... Repair:...” are considered differently than other actions a ship can perform.

13 minutes ago, Asaverino1019 said:

- which is still the same net action

Except its not. Each "Action:" header on each Weapons' failure card is a separate, action. The name of the card isnt the important bit, its the "Action:" header.

Rules Reference pg 3

Quote

◊ Some cards have multiple “ Action : ” headers, each of which indicates a different action.

Prime example is "Gonk"


Even tho Both action headers are on the same named card, Performing one action header does not eliminate that entire card from the possible actions in the future. Its the "Action:" header itself thats looked at, not the name of the card. The name of the card is inconsequential as that isnt the action. Otherwise you could argue that you could only ever perform one action from the ships action bar each round because they are all under the same name pilot card. (i hope that makes sense)

19 minutes ago, Asaverino1019 said:

That sounds an awful lot like Expert Handling gives you a separate barrel roll action from the red roll on the ship card

That's because it does. Expert Handling, Tactical Officer, even tho they Require a red one, the White action is *added* to the ships bar, its not *replacing* the red action that is required for it. Now, that Still means they are both the Barrel roll action, so you cannot perform both of them in the same round because they are the same action. Rules only specify that "Action:" headers are their own actions, not action bar actions.

13 hours ago, Lyianx said:

That's because it does. Expert Handling, Tactical Officer, even tho they Require a red one, the White action is *added* to the ships bar, its not *replacing* the red action that is required for it.

Correct. Ditto Engine Upgrade for boost. This means, for example, that if you were to have a trigger saying "when you perform a red action" or a negative effect that "you may only perform red actions" you can still choose to do so if it's the better option. It's still a boost (or roll, or whatever).

8 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

Correct. Ditto Engine Upgrade for boost. This means, for example, that if you were to have a trigger saying "when you perform a red action" or a negative effect that "you may only perform red actions" you can still choose to do so if it's the better option. It's still a boost (or roll, or whatever).

Yep.

Biggest benifit i can quickly point out is a Tie Reaper with Tac Officer. Easiest way to disable Adaptive Ailerons, perform a red coordinate. Even though you have TO to do a white coordinate.