...or at least that was my first impression, content-wise. I know its not really fair to compare it to kickstarter bloats coming down the pipe next year but...lets face...thats whats out there. They re not competing against their second edition...they re competing against Storm sunder, oathsworn and Tanares Adventure. I fear this may turn out the be a very large box containing a very large amount of air.
Edited by LudVanBseems a little...underwhelming....
I agree completely. Seems to me very few material considering the price. And considering actual content of the box will give you some 3 or 4 chained missions with just ONE final villain... and then keep on investing money in expansions and more minis...
Compare it to Gloomhaven, where you can play for YEARS (and don't need further support or an app).
My biggest problem is the app. Even if this a one and done game, what if I want to revisit it in say 5 to 10 years. Will FFG still be supporting and updating the app or will one day when I update or buy a new iPad and find that the app doesn’t work anymore. Then I have a big box of stuff with no way to play the game. It’s my problem with all app games.
2 hours ago, LudVanB said:...or at least that was my first impression, content-wise. I know its not really fair to compare it to kickstarter bloats coming down the pipe next year but...lets face...thats whats out there. They re not competing against their second edition...they re competing against Storm sunder, oathsworn and Tanares Adventure. I fear this may turn out the be a very large box containing a very large amount of air.
I agree, looks like they are leaning way too hard on the digital integration, which could leave the game stranded the moment they stop supporting the app.
Pass.
The usual problem with app games is that most designers simply use it as a crutch to avoid designing strong mechanics. Apps can be integrated really well in a unique interesting way, but usually it's just pasted on to avoid needing any real mechanics.
For being more expensive than Gloomhaven, it looks like far less product. Quality looks good. From what I've seen, this is not a $175 game, but a $100 game. The miniatures look great, the art looks great, the app looks great, but not for the price great. Kind of sad as I loved Descent: Journey's in the Dark, and would have enjoyed an update. But I cannot see spending close to $200 on a game that has seemingly far less content than a $100 to $130 game.
Yeah, it doesn't look significantly better than Journeys in Middle Earth (which was already overpriced).
You guys are killing the chicken within the egg, before it even hatched...
According to all the negativity here and other posts, FFG should simply cancel the release of this game, declare bankruptcy and submit to their Kickstarter Overlords.
Kickstarter games also have their good deal of balance issues which i won't be debating here, but i am looking at you Sword & Sorcery!
After watching the Live stream and reading up the articles a few times, i can see several new, really interesting concepts such as crafting with numerous resources tracked within the app, unlocking random abilities to weapons and armor, giving it a Diablo feel. Also the mechanic of readying weapons, armor, skills and abilities with back to back, upgradable and interchangeable cards seem really clever.
Just how the app will be managing all of that while keeping the focus and balance on what's on the table is a challenge i know FFG can overcome. They did with JIME but i would have prefered dice, which is the case with Descent:LotD. Attack dice defined by your hero, but effects and damage across different weapons and abilities unlocked within the app. Very exciting - at least for me and hopefully, a few others.
I would wait for a little bit more before all of us get to punch the red button...
Edited by ShirysIt looked good to me too. I am actually excited about having an app for this game. It certainly made Mansions of Madness 2e better. Crafting could be awesome.
2 hours ago, Supertoe said:Apps can be integrated really well in a unique interesting way, but usually it's just pasted on to avoid needing any real mechanics.
The app in Journeys in Middle Earth works like a charm and achieves things otherwise unobtainable by 'printer and paper'.
49 minutes ago, Steeljaw said:Crafting could be awesome.
I'd also like the ability to gather plants and mine ore!
One can only hope 😃
With regards to the app, it does give the flexibility to add more campaigns as DLC which would be great! But they haven't leaned on that as much as I'd have liked in the past, they usually still mostly add physical expansions to get digital content, which kinda defeats the purpose for me, and when they do release digital content they don't use it to its full potential, you don't usually have digital expansions that require multiple physical ones. Mind you this also happened with Decent 2.0, they released only one campaign on its own, they could have made so many more combining different expansions and it could have been so great.
I have to admit that the game has me intrigued. My only real complaint at this point is the art style. I'm not a fan of the cartoonish style when it is used on expensive games.
Normally an app driven game is an automatic no but I'd like to see more about the game before I decide.
3 hours ago, Shirys said:You guys are killing the chicken within the egg, before it even hatched...
According to all the negativity here and other posts, FFG should simply cancel the release of this game, declare bankruptcy and submit to their Kickstarter Overlords
Maybe they should, yes ... even if that Kills me to write this but ... seriously, what is FFG without his fan base ? What the point of disapointing so much so fast and so hard ?
Anybody can do mistakes, but none should do it knowing it would be one. Maybe they should cancel the game, but it is too late for that now I think.
If they have more listened to their fan base, this would have been avoided. Maybe a big fail is needed to **** them understand and change direction.
I'm sure that some tried, if not, why so much leave FFG ?
This game is already dead. Sad, but real.
15 minutes ago, rugal said:This game is already dead. Sad, but real.
No, its not.
You can have negative opinions about a game, and offer constructive criticism, but at this point you've already posted in other threads that "you hope the game fails"; you are quickly approaching being a troll.
If you have constructive criticisms, please offer them, but if all you are going to do is post "game is already dead" nonsense, please refrain.
Just now, kris40k said:No, its not.
You can have negative opinions about a game, and offer constructive criticism, but at this point you've already posted in other threads that "you hope the game fails"; you are quickly approaching being a troll.
If you have constructive criticisms, please offer them, but if all you are going to do is post "game is already dead" nonsense, please refrain.
I did it already many times. Won't repeat myself.
34 minutes ago, rugal said:Maybe they should, yes ... even if that Kills me to write this but ... seriously, what is FFG without his fan base ? What the point of disapointing so much so fast and so hard ?
Anybody can do mistakes, but none should do it knowing it would be one. Maybe they should cancel the game, but it is too late for that now I think.
If they have more listened to their fan base, this would have been avoided. Maybe a big fail is needed to **** them understand and change direction.
I'm sure that some tried, if not, why so much leave FFG ?
This game is already dead. Sad, but real.
>Fan-base
>Same old grumpy no-life guys trolling on the FFG forums over and over again.
Pick one
Seriously, the same hate I read when JaiME was announced: Booo App-drive. Booo no dices. Boo no grid... Boo...Boo. And then you see the sales and it's one of the best sellers of FFG.
Don't take the opinions from the people on the forums. They aren't enough to represent any public and they are the same dudes over and over and over again.
3 hours ago, Shirys said:I'd also like the ability to gather plants and mine ore!
One can only hope 😃
Your app will do it for you and you won't even notice... but yes, for sure your ipad is gathering plants and making potions while you play.
6 hours ago, Shirys said:According to all the negativity here and other posts, FFG should simply cancel the release of this game, declare bankruptcy and submit to their Kickstarter Overlords.
175 bucks for a 40 miniature game that requires you to have a tablet handy? Thats the point i m making. Lord of the ring was 100 dollars and had about the same amount of game time...a 15 quest campaign, each playing about 1.5 to 3 hours. And with no ability to use all the minis we bought for the second edition? come the f**k on!
More people like pure co-op that one vs Many. Should the games to be made for bigger audience or smaller minorities? I don`t say Yes or no in here. I have Many games that most normal players ever would consider. Do I Expect to see more that kind of games to be published... No!
companies make this for money. And because Ffg knows that pure co-op sells better (at least at this moment) They make more pure co-op games. Simple as that! Is it wise to Flood the market with similar games... I don`t know. Only history will tell. But saying that Ffg did not listen customers... you Are wrong. Ffg listen the customers and Main trend no is pure co-op games!
i personally van hoe that there will be more 80 to 160 hours war games, or some other minority can hope more one vs Many games. But the reality is that majority of gamers now play pure co-op. So it is very pointless to whine that company makes more of them... They Are trying to make money. Not to please minorities!
So if I want new heavy war game or some other people want to have new one vs Many game... he has to make it himself and launch a Kickstarter for that!
all in all this games seems to be promising co-op game. Will it be succesfull... I don`t know but customers and market situation support that option... So more likely than not this will be much bigger succes than descent 2nd or fictional descent 3.0... but only history knows and it is not telling it to us at this moment. From what I can see from current market situation succes is more likely than failure, unless peoples game taste ghange quite suddently!
10 minutes ago, LudVanB said:175 bucks for a 40 miniature game that requires you to have a tablet handy? Thats the point i m making. Lord of the ring was 100 dollars and had about the same amount of game time...a 15 quest campaign, each playing about 1.5 to 3 hours. And with no ability to use all the minis we bought for the second edition? come the f**k on!
Warhammer Quest: Blackstone Fortress MSRPs for $150 for 2d terrain tiles and 44 minis.
Necromunda: Dark Uprising includes some 3d terrain on top of 2d boards (like Legends does) and 28 minis and runs $290
So...yeah, honestly. Seems to be pretty reasonable with today's games.
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Warhammer-Quest-Blackstone-Fortress-2018-eng
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Necromunda-Dark-Uprising-EN-2019
1 minute ago, kris40k said:Warhammer Quest: Blackstone Fortress MSRPs for $150 for 2d terrain tiles and 44 minis.
Blackstone fortress has a much larger scope. you can play one offs or campaigns and it doesn't require a tablet to play the game. Plus, its Games workshop and their minis are the gold standard when it comes to quality of details. and the tiles are a lot better looking than what we ve seen here.
17 minutes ago, kris40k said:
Necromunda: Dark Uprising includes some 3d terrain on top of 2d boards (like Legends does) and 28 minis and runs $290
So...yeah, honestly. Seems to be pretty reasonable with today's games.
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Warhammer-Quest-Blackstone-Fortress-2018-eng
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Necromunda-Dark-Uprising-EN-2019
SOME 3d terrain??? The Necromunda PLASTIC terrain kit would sell for 200€ alone. It is a beautiful master piece of modular darkgrim terrain, not a cardboard stairs and a standee of a tree. And no, legends offers you just the tiles, not a 2d board under them.
Edited by Tubb1 minute ago, Tubb said:SOME 3d terrain??? The Necromunda PLASTIC terrain kit would sell for 100€ alone. It is a beutiful master piece of modular darkgrim terrain, not a cardboard stairs and a standee of a tree.
So, minus the 100€ of 3d terrain, you would say the rest of the kit (28 minis + cards, rulebook, and flat mat) is worth ~130€ or roughly $150?
Okay, sure.
That still shows Legends is a reasonable price point with almost twice the minis and the 3d cardstock terrain, boards, etc. for $175 in total.
4 minutes ago, kris40k said:So, minus the 100€ of 3d terrain, you would say the rest of the kit (28 minis + cards, rulebook, and flat mat) is worth ~130€ or roughly $150?
Okay, sure.
That still shows Legends is a reasonable price point with almost twice the minis and the 3d cardstock terrain, boards, etc. for $175 in total.
Ok, yes, it is cheap. XD