13 minutes ago, Hoarder of Garlic Bread said:

I'd play new Obi if he's 55. Soontir, but repositioning is different, force is even easier to have (instead of bullseye, it's always on), LAAT rerolls, purple maneuvers, astromech slot, other Republic support stuff, etc. The only downside from going from Soonts to Obi is the initiative drop.

I suppose there's also the bit about needing bullseye to get your 3 dice, but whatevs. 7th fleet is in faction if you find yourself having trouble landing that or if you're moving first.

Would you play new obi at 55 while CLT old Obi is 53pts?

Also has the same Republic support options, has the same amount of force and gets a garanteed eye roll as the 3rd dice instead in the bullseye. Has 1 more health which is a shield. Only lacks the purple talon rolls, but gets blue one banks and 2 sloops on its dial which that new Obi totally lacks. New Obi has 3 hard were old one gets 5 K added.

Also think Old Obi's ability is stronger then the new one's ability.

While system phase repositioning has it's merit, it is debatable how much better if any it is then double repo after seeing opponents moves.

Edit:

White evade is a good selling point, but you get purple lock in return on a ship that already wants to spend force on system phase repo, purple move etc. so double mods on offence seems like Old Obi would get more often.

1 hour ago, Hoarder of Garlic Bread said:

Imagine trying to use R2's movie trick designed into the card only to let someone convince you that remotes aren't devices. RIP.

🤷🏼‍♂️ we looked, it says that buzzdroids are remotes but missed the second statement. We thought it was weird, but never upset to be proven wrong.

Isn't R2-A6 really good on a ship with all 3 (non-red) hard turns and I5/I6? (+Extreme Maneuvers)

R2-C4 can be good on Yoda, with his I3. Take evade action, use your force to support other jedi, then if they don't want to shoot your ship with evade and force use it to modify attack.

people are drastically undervaluing how insanely good being able to block ships with your i5 by moving at i0 is

5 minutes ago, svelok said:

people are drastically undervaluing how insanely good being able to block ships with your i5 by moving at i0 is

But is it better than boosting and/or barrel rolling after knowing where everyone is?

10 minutes ago, LeMightyASP said:

But is it better than boosting and/or barrel rolling after knowing where everyone is?

It's ... different. We can't honestly say whether or not it's better as it's an unknown quantity for the player base.

11 minutes ago, svelok said:

people are drastically undervaluing how insanely good being able to block ships with your i5 by moving at i0 is

You can make the block only with a boost or barrol roll so not that far out. With the opposing low I ships would you even want to often go to that spot? As you for sure would not set the block on the Eta with it as that has no 1 speed moves except the 1 hard. These blocks don't seem that hard to avoid and if you make the block you would still need your other moves to be able to make profit from it. Yes even without making the block it wil also be able to act as some area denial and that is usefull of course. Might also make blocking the eta-2 harder then an Aethersprite, but the amount of times I have seen Aethersprites and other double repo ships use both to get out of all arcs and into great positions is countless. That is something the eta-2 won't be able to do in return as can only do 1 of the 2 after al moves. (And is limited to the one not used already in the systems fase)

I understand the eta-2 is good and has it's unique strengts, but I do doubt it being strictly better then a CLT Aethersprite of same I -and force- values.

1 hour ago, svelok said:

people are drastically undervaluing how insanely good being able to block ships with your i5 by moving at i0 is

I completely agree. You can deep dive into your force pool to reposition block, then T Roll behind them and focus. They aren’t modded, you’re shooting at least 3 die with a mod. Can be quite powerful, can set up ace kill boxes if you bid enough. The only thing you can’t block is 6’s unless Ani is doing it. But then you can just use normal block mechanics anyway

6 minutes ago, Archangelspiv said:

I completely agree. You can deep dive into your force pool to reposition block, then T Roll behind them and focus. They aren’t modded, you’re shooting at least 3 die with a mod. Can be quite powerful, can set up ace kill boxes if you bid enough. The only thing you can’t block is 6’s unless Ani is doing it. But then you can just use normal block mechanics anyway

You can do all these things, but notice that every 'play' you can do involves spending 2+ force, and the ship only gets 1 per turn. Once you're out of force, you become a 50 point Tie Fighter

As a fan of blocking with Echo's decloak, I think if you're flying an I5/6 Eta, you're probably eyeing that systems block quite situationally. It will be handy, but it's possibly not something you can play into very often, without some heavy risk.

With a couple of I4 generics, in support of other things.... well... hello there....

Use new Obi with Y Wing Anakin to flex like a boss.

1 hour ago, svelok said:

people are drastically undervaluing how insanely good being able to block ships with your i5 by moving at i0 is

I'm at least a little scared of this ship. It's got non-stress flip moves plus system phase pre-dial movement plus passive mods. It's a Phantom crossed with a Defender crossed with Darth Vader.

Only thing keeping me from outright terror is that defensively it's a TIE Fighter. That said, it's also defensively Soontir Fel, which seems to often be enough for him.

1 hour ago, LeMightyASP said:

But is it better than boosting and/or barrel rolling after knowing where everyone is?

I mean, aces.... that thing they do...

I've been thinking about the I4s akin to the SNR Inqs I know and love so well. At I3, I'm well used to using it non-reactively, so the system phase is not a big mental leap for me. The Eta is really not the same. Without the linked action, the 1 bank and the massive tankiness it enables, it loses some in the comparison, but still.

Moving 1st, it's obviously not about arc dodging. What IC could do, is allow you to reach those awkward spots that confound a standard counter manoeuvre in a similar way.

Much of it is about being finickity on approach, until you can see that awkward spot open up. Using range control, obstacles, the white evade combined with a spare force token to tank any shots that can find and reach you before you get to that optimum position. From which you can maintain an advantage by just always being slightly off your enemies shoulder. The boost adjusts your angle, the roll maintains range and let's you pivot when in close.

I'm really just talking about SuperInqs there. Until I actually fly the ship, I don't know if the thinking will hold up, but I'm looking forward to finding out.

Force management is going to be so key. Going in like a full, arc dodgy repo ace feels like a trap. Playing cagey, eyeing the disengages, perhaps using the systems block more to give you that out, rather than set up an attack....

That management may mean less wait until you can glue yourself to R1, more hit and run. Inqs can wait, sniping away at R3 for a long time before they close, this thing may be more about alternating between the 2 and taking more risks.

At least in a generic sense. Anyway, just a ponder. I don't see the system phase requirement being a better/worse deal for a certain sort of play.

5 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

I'm at least a little scared of this ship. It's got non-stress flip moves plus system phase pre-dial movement plus passive mods. It's a Phantom crossed with a Defender crossed with Darth Vader.

Well, I was kind of excited by that, fite me

But that order of events you just listed cost you 3 force!

The thing that concerns me is more the Regen Delta style wait forever, hit, then run away for the rest of ever. Spend those 3 force to do all the things, then clear off till they come back. If you get another 3 force turn, hurrah, but maybe you don't need it because the timer just went.

It's really the main reason I'm much more excited by the I4s than the aces. I'm actually not even thinking about the named pilots at all at this point 🤣

56 minutes ago, LeMightyASP said:

You can do all these things, but notice that every 'play' you can do involves spending 2+ force, and the ship only gets 1 per turn. Once you're out of force, you become a 50 point Tie Fighter

Pretty sure it’s because of a thing called balance. 2.0 has always been about cost, you want something, you need to pay for it. There are ways around it like Yoda, but that’s about squad building. It’s about choices, you may not want to do it a lot, but a clutch block on an ace can put you over points and win a game.
It’s why people hate spamtex, they can do everything for very little cost. I never said ETA’s would be easy but they sure do look fun. A lot of choices to make flying them. I am hoping to fit in 3 plus support. I cannot wait for this ships release.

18 hours ago, _iaco_ said:

40 - 45 pts range for generals, Yoda and Shaak?

45 - 50 pts range for Aayla and Obi?

50 - 55 pts range for Anakin?

50 points for a soontir fel, that can take white evade and still have 3 force left to both defend and attack with? And that can Kturn or troll without losing an action?
50 points for a ship that will, at I6, attack you with 3 attack dice, mod 1 with force, and will still take no damage like 85% of the time?

The difference is that if soontir evade, then gets a focus with his ability, he has to choose to use his focus to increase his attack. Anakin ETA doesn't have to choose, he just mods both, making him very hard to kill. If we go by the calculation that the first force point is worth around 9 points for most pilot (and ani has 3), even if the ship ability and pilot ability are a little bit worst than an interceptor, the ship will probably be around 58 points I feel. Even at 55, I'd argue that the ship would probably be better than Vonreg, just because of the force.

2 hours ago, DarthSempai said:

50 points for a soontir fel, that can take white evade and still have 3 force left to both defend and attack with? And that can Kturn or troll without losing an action?
50 points for a ship that will, at I6, attack you with 3 attack dice, mod 1 with force, and will still take no damage like 85% of the time?

The difference is that if soontir evade, then gets a focus with his ability, he has to choose to use his focus to increase his attack. Anakin ETA doesn't have to choose, he just mods both, making him very hard to kill. If we go by the calculation that the first force point is worth around 9 points for most pilot (and ani has 3), even if the ship ability and pilot ability are a little bit worst than an interceptor, the ship will probably be around 58 points I feel. Even at 55, I'd argue that the ship would probably be better than Vonreg, just because of the force.

It's not Soontir though, because you lack the double reposition.

55 for Ani. Obi should be about 49, maybe less than his delta version.

The purple TL rsally hurts

34 minutes ago, The Penguin UK said:

The purple TL rsally hurts

This is probably the cleverest thing of all, I really like it.

The faction has like a billion ways round it, but including that support could move 'best use' away from 'bring all the shyest aces.'

1 hour ago, Cuz05 said:

This is probably the cleverest thing of all, I really like it.

The faction has like a billion ways round it, but including that support could move 'best use' away from 'bring all the shyest aces.'

I don't disgree it's clever, or good for the faction.

I just don't like it 😉

1 hour ago, Cuz05 said:

The faction has like a billion ways round it, but including that support could move 'best use' away from 'bring all the shyest aces.'

Yeah. That is why I think its going to be a bit cheaper than people think it is going to be.

It has a lot of really absurd tricks but they require you to spend resources super precisely and read your opponent really well. I look forward to an arc-dodgy ace that doesn't get to safely hedge its bets every turn.

13 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

I'm at least a little scared of this ship. It's got non-stress flip moves plus system phase pre-dial movement plus passive mods. It's a Phantom crossed with a Defender crossed with Darth Vader.

Only thing keeping me from outright terror is that defensively it's a TIE Fighter. That said, it's also defensively Soontir Fel, which seems to often be enough for him.

in me and booms games testing it, the most apparent drawback it has in exchange for all those powers is that it's tremendously more force-thirsty than the aether.

the bullseye also maintains the CLT effect of encouraging jamming them into range one, but the -1 hp is pretty relevant. CLT jedi can usually afford to make big mistakes twice, before dying. etas only get one; the second mistake kills them.

also, while blocking swarms is insanely good (!!), system phase repo is way more wholesome and interesting than reactive double reposition. not only are you pretty stuck wherever your maneuver landed, but you have to use your ability before seeing dials, so you're doubling down on calling dials correctly. as long as fort fun keeps sense outside the castle gates, etas are considerably more dials-centric than deltas.

I've been a little bit mad about 100% free pre-combat double repositions since wave 3 dropped, and that goes double now that it includes SnR style rock dodging to delay choices, but there's about 6 players total who care about the design of pre-combat repositions and I've already talked about it with half of them.

2 hours ago, svelok said:

in me and booms games testing it, the most apparent drawback it has in exchange for all those powers is that it's tremendously more force-thirsty than the aether.

the bullseye also maintains the CLT effect of encouraging jamming them into range one, but the -1 hp is pretty relevant. CLT jedi can usually afford to make big mistakes twice, before dying. etas only get one; the second mistake kills them.

also, while blocking swarms is insanely good (!!), system phase repo is way more wholesome and interesting than reactive double reposition. not only are you pretty stuck wherever your maneuver landed, but you have to use your ability before seeing dials, so you're doubling down on calling dials correctly. as long as fort fun keeps sense outside the castle gates, etas are considerably more dials-centric than deltas.

I've been a little bit mad about 100% free pre-combat double repositions since wave 3 dropped, and that goes double now that it includes SnR style rock dodging to delay choices, but there's about 6 players total who care about the design of pre-combat repositions and I've already talked about it with half of them.

I guess I'm never not going to be nervous until there's a lot of table time. Sure, there's a lot of limitations, and you can't easily use them all at once, but the fact that this has a billion tools just keeps me skeptical.

I should probably draw comfort by the fact that folks who *HATE ALL THE MECHANICS THIS SHIP HAS* seem to really love it. It's tough, though.

15 hours ago, Cuz05 said:

[Me: "i'm scairt"]

Well, I was kind of excited by that, fite me

Scared and excited aren't exactly opposites.

//

Anyhow, haven't seen much talk about R5 for these. Seems like a perfect fit. Pretty cheap at 4 points, the first damage on the ship can be immediately repaired (CLT has to wait for the shield), and the 3 Hull means the half-points breakpoints work out pretty well.

I mean, we'll probably be forced to see R5 Agility Scaling, correct? I'm a bit sad about that thought, since I'm not someone who hates regen on principle, and I'm sad R2 has been priced out on fairly wholesome ships because of Jedi.

19 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

I guess I'm never not going to be nervous until there's a lot of table time. Sure, there's a lot of limitations, and you can't easily use them all at once, but the fact that this has a billion tools just keeps me skeptical.

I should probably draw comfort by the fact that folks who *HATE ALL THE MECHANICS THIS SHIP HAS* seem to really love it. It's tough, though.

Scared and excited aren't exactly opposites.

//

Anyhow, haven't seen much talk about R5 for these. Seems like a perfect fit. Pretty cheap at 4 points, the first damage on the ship can be immediately repaired (CLT has to wait for the shield), and the 3 Hull means the half-points breakpoints work out pretty well.

I mean, we'll probably be forced to see R5 Agility Scaling, correct? I'm a bit sad about that thought, since I'm not someone who hates regen on principle, and I'm sad R2 has been priced out on fairly wholesome ships because of Jedi.

If u use ur action for R5 u are unable to focus or evade or repositioning...

R5 seems decent to me but less powerful than R5 on high initiative Deltas that can boost away and than recover a shield

4 minutes ago, _iaco_ said:

If u use ur action for R5 u are unable to focus or evade or repositioning...

R5 seems decent to me but less powerful than R5 on high initiative Deltas that can boost away and than recover a shield

And what about Eta-2 Anakin with the new R2? Can you get rid of the deplete using his ability or not?

7 hours ago, The Penguin UK said:

The purple TL rsally hurts

In the faction that has the most ways to give away locks or rerolls, it should hardly hurt at all. V-Wing Tarkin, Sync'd Console, Wolfpack, and LAAT can all provide rerolls. Beyond that, locks don't seem super necessary as you'll likely be taking evades anyway.

What will hurt it is the lack of linked actions.