Anyone else who plays Rebel having issues dealing damage to even basic stormtroopers? Feels like every game we've played I've just hit a solid wall of red defense dice.
And since my buddy realized he can just charge his stormtroopers right up the middle and get into melee where the stormtroopers get a black dice on attack, it's been even more one-sided.
Feels unbalanced. Am I doing it wrong?
Imperials feel darn near indestructable.
Stormtrooper's Red Dice is only a 50% chance of success, so unless he is getting way above average rolls, you might be playing it a bit wrong.
For one, Stormtrooper's don't surge on defence, make sure you pay attention to what symbols come up.
Also big Dice pools will get through them, especially if they are charging and not taking cover.
Who are you using as your Commander? If you are playing with the Core set let him Charge, Luke will happily accept charging stormtroopers.
1 hour ago, Nithorian said:Stormtrooper's Red Dice is only a 50% chance of success, so unless he is getting way above average rolls, you might be playing it a bit wrong.
For one, Stormtrooper's don't surge on defence, make sure you pay attention to what symbols come up.
Also big Dice pools will get through them, especially if they are charging and not taking cover.
Who are you using as your Commander? If you are playing with the Core set let him Charge, Luke will happily accept charging stormtroopers.
Sure, 50% chance of success on defense but add on that my attack dice aren't anywhere guaranteed a sure thing as well and the amount of damage I am actually dealing is extremely small.
Today we played a 500 point skirmish.
He used Darth Vader, Bossk and 4 Squads of Stormtroopers.
I used Jyn Erso, Cassian Andor, 2 squads of Pathfinders, Fleet Troopers and Rebel troopers.
Defense Dice are really swingy. You see a lot of crazy things happen on a battle field. I remember a Rebel Trooper Z6 squad viping out a complete 5 minis Stormtrooper unit with only 1 attack. Another time a AT-ST shot my 4 minis Fleet Troopers in the open. It got 4 hits and I managed to roll 4 saves. (My friend never got over this!)
I know it feels very sad if you shoot at units with good saves. Best thing you can do is to implement some units with Pierce keyword.
25 minutes ago, Kingsguard said:Sure, 50% chance of success on defense but add on that my attack dice aren't anywhere guaranteed a sure thing as well and the amount of damage I am actually dealing is extremely small.
Today we played a 500 point skirmish.
He used Darth Vader, Bossk and 4 Squads of Stormtroopers.
I used Jyn Erso, Cassian Andor, 2 squads of Pathfinders, Fleet Troopers and Rebel troopers.
Well, one of the strenghts of stormtroopers is the fact that they are cheap bodies with a good defence, a thing that gets often overlooked nowadays. sure 50% doesn't look like much but it can be hard to overcome so many bodies in skirmish.
I can see some isseues specifically with your list, here are a few tips:
-in skirmish force users are really good and hard to deal with, unless you bring your own. my advice is to bring luke. he can't beat vader 1v1 usually, but he can keep him in check.
-Bring units with pierce: luke,chewe, fleets with shotgun, wookies with bowcaster, snipers to bypass the red save entirely
-Paths are not ideal in skirmish, they rely on flanking tactics and the skirmish table is too small to do this effectivelly
In general your list is at a big disadvantage vs your oppenent's. he has 2 very good pieces ,1 of which you don't have any real counter to, and you don't seem to have the firepower to deal with all those red save wounds. Try to switch somenthing in order to get more firepower maybe. also 4 (i presume) naked storms are not a big manace in ranged fights: it looks like he is really just trying to overwelm you with bodies, so learn to prioritize targets.
If stormies are behind heat cover... Do not try to shoot them unless you have pierce or you want to suppress. Better to focus on objectifs instead of trying to kill them. So take cover, dodge, control objectifs.
1 hour ago, Kingsguard said:Sure, 50% chance of success on defense but add on that my attack dice aren't anywhere guaranteed a sure thing as well and the amount of damage I am actually dealing is extremely small.
Today we played a 500 point skirmish.
He used Darth Vader, Bossk and 4 Squads of Stormtroopers.
I used Jyn Erso, Cassian Andor, 2 squads of Pathfinders, Fleet Troopers and Rebel troopers.
You have three sources of Pierce in that list. Cassian, Jyn and Fleets (with the Scatter Gun Trooper ) will kill something when they hit, unless cover is blocking their shots, that is provided you are taking one of Jyn's blaster options. If you are using them to take down Vader you are wasting that important keyword because Vader is immune to Pierce, just bare that in mind.
As for Vader well, he'll be difficult in skirmish to deal with, and once he gets in none of your units can stand up to him, so maybe consider taking Commander Luke in place of Jyn, in this setup he'll do a lot better, and with Son of Skywalker he has the potential to take Vader down in one turn.
Edited by NithorianIf he can walk straight up the middle and assault you with Stormtroopers you are certainly doing many things wrong for sure
By the way, aren't you allowed to bring just one commander + 1 operative in skirmish? jyn AND Cassian shouldn't be legal
8 minutes ago, Ringmaster80 said:By the way, aren't you allowed to bring just one commander + 1 operative in skirmish? jyn AND Cassian shouldn't be legal
I think technically that is correct, because as far as list building goes Covert Ops Units are considered Commanders. I'm not sure if that is intended for Skirmish or not though, you do technically covert him to an Operative before the game begins so it might be in a grey area.
Edited by Nithorian44 minutes ago, Nithorian said:I think technically that is correct, because as far as list building goes Covert Ops Units are considered Commanders. I'm not sure if that is intended for Skirmish or not though, you do technically covert him to an Operative before the game begins so it might be in a grey area.
No, according to the rules, you choose to use Covert Ops or not when you will deploy that unit, not before the game begins, so for list building that unit is a commander for sure:
"When a unit with the covert ops keyword deploys , it may treat its rank as operative instead of commander to gain the infiltrate keyword."
rebels have tons of pierce weapons
you shouldnt be have trouble killing stormtroopers
The terrain was set up to be more close quarters than usual.
He ran his Bossk up and nailed some of my Pathfinders in melee but my side's only lucky roll of the game saw my Fleet Troopers hit Bossk for 5 damage and Cassian Followed it up with 2 more damage from his Sniper rifle to kill Bossk. Afterwards Darth Vader and the four stormtrooper units engaged each of my units in melee and defeated them because...red defense dice.
2 hours ago, Ringmaster80 said:Well, one of the strenghts of stormtroopers is the fact that they are cheap bodies with a good defence, a thing that gets often overlooked nowadays. sure 50% doesn't look like much but it can be hard to overcome so many bodies in skirmish.
I can see some isseues specifically with your list, here are a few tips:
-in skirmish force users are really good and hard to deal with, unless you bring your own. my advice is to bring luke. he can't beat vader 1v1 usually, but he can keep him in check.
-Bring units with pierce: luke,chewe, fleets with shotgun, wookies with bowcaster, snipers to bypass the red save entirely
-Paths are not ideal in skirmish, they rely on flanking tactics and the skirmish table is too small to do this effectivelly
In general your list is at a big disadvantage vs your oppenent's. he has 2 very good pieces ,1 of which you don't have any real counter to, and you don't seem to have the firepower to deal with all those red save wounds. Try to switch somenthing in order to get more firepower maybe. also 4 (i presume) naked storms are not a big manace in ranged fights: it looks like he is really just trying to overwelm you with bodies, so learn to prioritize targets.
Good tips. Yeah, skirmish table is way too small for Pathfinders.
5 minutes ago, Kingsguard said:The terrain was set up to be more close quarters than usual.
He ran his Bossk up and nailed some of my Pathfinders in melee but my side's only lucky roll of the game saw my Fleet Troopers hit Bossk for 5 damage and Cassian Followed it up with 2 more damage from his Sniper rifle to kill Bossk. Afterwards Darth Vader and the four stormtrooper units engaged each of my units in melee and defeated them because...red defense dice.
Vader in Melee with any of the units you took is pretty much game over for them.
If they were that close, then you probably should have used Cassian's Pistol config it is stronger than his sniper, and the infinite range sniper is really not much good in a small Skirmish game.
If you are going to setup a board for close quarters and your opponent is bringing a melee beat stick in Vader, you need to bring your own, if you have him OP Luke would run wild over everything your opponent brought.
Edited by Nithorian1 hour ago, Big k said:If he can walk straight up the middle and assault you with Stormtroopers you are certainly doing many things wrong for sure
Those red dice let him do it, dude. It's freaking hard to kill Stormtroopers.
1 hour ago, Ringmaster80 said:By the way, aren't you allowed to bring just one commander + 1 operative in skirmish? jyn AND Cassian shouldn't be legal
Cassian can be played as an Operative.
1 minute ago, Kingsguard said:Cassian can be played as an Operative.
Yes but in a list he is still a Commander, he can just choose to be an Operative when you deploy him, so the list would already be illegal before you started deployment with 2 Commanders. But for a friendly casual game it really doesn't matter.
Just now, Nithorian said:Yes but in a list he is still a Commander, he can just choose to be an Operative when you deploy him, so the list would already be illegal before you started deployment with 2 Commanders. But for a friendly casual game it really doesn't matter.
That sucks! I can't play Both Cassian and Jyn in a Skirmish then....
7 minutes ago, Kingsguard said:That sucks! I can't play Both Cassian and Jyn in a Skirmish then....
Yeah it does, but they aren't that strong in the Skirmish setup anyway, they are really good on large battlefields with the ability to manoeuvre and take tactically advantageous positions, like the Pathfinders. Skirmish is all about those close ranged units, especially the Lightsaber wielders.
5 minutes ago, Nithorian said:Yeah it does, but they aren't that strong in the Skirmish setup anyway, they are really good on large battlefields with the ability to manoeuvre and take tactically advantageous positions, like the Pathfinders. Skirmish is all about those close ranged units, especially the Lightsaber wielders.
*sigh. I'm loosing my interest in Skirmish battles.
It's almost refreshing to see a thread like this and it not being complaints about the GAR. Has a nice, retro feel. Really takes me back to this time last year when these forums were happy places where people bitched about the Empire being OP, and about how the Rebels really needed buffs. Ah, the good ole days.
1 minute ago, Kingsguard said:*sigh. I'm loosing my interest in Skirmish battles.
Then don't play them. I do my best to avoid skirmish games as much as possible, mostly because I don't like the limitations the design and list building places on what I can actually bring. Skirmish is OK for faster paced pick up games, or learning games, but terrible at representing the "real" game.
22 minutes ago, Alpha17 said:It's almost refreshing to see a thread like this and it not being complaints about the GAR. Has a nice, retro feel. Really takes me back to this time last year when these forums were happy places where people bitched about the Empire being OP, and about how the Rebels really needed buffs. Ah, the good ole days.
Then don't play them. I do my best to avoid skirmish games as much as possible, mostly because I don't like the limitations the design and list building places on what I can actually bring. Skirmish is OK for faster paced pick up games, or learning games, but terrible at representing the "real" game.
GAR? Grand Army of the Republic? People say they are OP? I pretty much only play against my small group of friends so I know little or nothing about the meta.
Just now, Kingsguard said:GAR? Grand Army of the Republic? People say they are OP? I pretty much only play against my small group of friends so I know little or nothing about the meta.
Just take a quick look around at some of the other topics, and you'll see the complaints about GAR, it has gotten to the point we've sort of heard it all and the same voices are on repeat now.
43 minutes ago, Kingsguard said:Those red dice let him do it, dude. It's freaking hard to kill Stormtroopers.
Not really. They have a 50% chance to save. Rebel Troopers (most Rebel infantry, in fact) have a 37% chance to save. That's only a 13% difference. Not insignificant, but not insurmountable. It's mostly in your head. You remember when he makes a bunch of saves but forget when he fails more than half of them. People are generally terrible at perceiving probability, and the sooner you recognize that fact and just look at the math the happier you will be with any game like this.
Just listen to everyone here. Don't argue with people that you know the game better than them. Just shoot them and they will die. Every other hit is a dead Stormtrooper.