19 hours ago, buckero0 said:

Why do people think the Rebel Vets are better than troopers? (Mentioned several times above)

Naked squad of troopers is 40pts, and have the same durability as vets for less.

While their gun got a discount, i still haven't seen a rebel gun better than the dlt20 except those on characters.

And that is still cheaper than Vets.

I wish i could find something redeeming about them

The main reason I like them is recon intel and then deploy the gun. Ideally with linked targeting array if I can fit it in.

9 hours ago, NeverTellMeTheOdds said:

The main reason I like them is recon intel and then deploy the gun. Ideally with linked targeting array if I can fit it in.

I just want courage 2 and the heavy to be cheaper or range 4. And make the detachment range 4

I think snowtroopers should be courage 2 also. because they go outside in blizzards and that takes courage.

every faction should have a courage 2 corps unit and I think it makes the most sense on snowtroopers since snowtroopers are especially awful when theyre suppressed. being limited to a single speed-1 move when youre trying to get in range with a flamethrower is not so great.

24 minutes ago, Khobai said:

I think snowtroopers should be courage 2 also. because they go outside in blizzards and that takes courage.

every faction should have a courage 2 corps unit and I think it makes the most sense on snowtroopers since snowtroopers are especially awful when theyre suppressed. being limited to a single speed-1 move when youre trying to get in range with a flamethrower is not so great.

I want any "assault" type unit ,e.g any unit that is range 2 only, to have courage 2. Getting to range 2 is hard already and having 1 courage makes it even worse.

10 hours ago, NeverTellMeTheOdds said:

The main reason I like them is recon intel and then deploy the gun. Ideally with linked targeting array if I can fit it in.

But you'd have to place them close to last or they'd vet blown off the board before activating.

55 minutes ago, Lord Abadeer said:

I just want courage 2 and the heavy to be cheaper or range 4. And make the detachment range 4

courage 2 would be ok. Then they would have something that made them different/worth taking over regular troopers.

If you give everyone range 4 you can create a very static game. You'd see gunline after gunline. There's too little movement in the game as there is.

I don't play CIS but would like a way for them to include more B1s. Maybe as Entourage 1 on the generic tactical droid commander or Entourage 2 with Nute Gunray if he ever makes it in the game. They seem like they should be able to have the highest activation count in the game without sacrificing. As a swarm faction they don't seem swarmy enough.

25 minutes ago, codytx2 said:

I don't play CIS but would like a way for them to include more B1s. Maybe as Entourage 1 on the generic tactical droid commander or Entourage 2 with Nute Gunray if he ever makes it in the game. They seem like they should be able to have the highest activation count in the game without sacrificing. As a swarm faction they don't seem swarmy enough.

This has come up a few times, but entourage B1 always ends up being agreed upon to be broken because of the free order they'd get.

The idea that the CIS would be a horde faction was a player driven idea, not a designer one. The designers seem to be operating under the plan for them being a cheap Corp to pad activations while splurging on super powerful units elsewhere. It's why everything in the faction is a nuke except B1s, Straps, and Droidekas (the last feeling like an accident admittedly).

1 hour ago, buckero0 said:

But you'd have to place them close to last or they'd vet blown off the board before activating.

courage 2 would be ok. Then they would have something that made them different/worth taking over regular troopers.

If you give everyone range 4 you can create a very static game. You'd see gunline after gunline. There's too little movement in the game as there is.

The detachment gun definitely need range 4 because of cumbersome. Rebels still wouldn't have much range 4 if the vets got their heavy to be range 4, or it could get suppressive like it had in playtesting. As is it's a really underwhelming heavy and an underwhelming unit.

15 minutes ago, thepopemobile100 said:

This has come up a few times, but entourage B1 always ends up being agreed upon to be broken because of the free order they'd get.

The idea that the CIS would be a horde faction was a player driven idea, not a designer one. The designers seem to be operating under the plan for them being a cheap Corp to pad activations while splurging on super powerful units elsewhere. It's why everything in the faction is a nuke except B1s, Straps, and Droidekas (the last feeling like an accident admittedly).

It is an interesting faction for sure. They do feel pseudo swarmy and will only get more activations when the generic commander comes out. They do the rebel idea of cheap corp and powerful units but do it better since their corp are even more expendable and harder to remove. I don't think having more B1s would be fair or fun to play against.

10 minutes ago, Lord Abadeer said:

28 minutes ago, thepopemobile100 said:

The idea that the CIS would be a horde faction was a player driven idea, not a designer one. The designers seem to be operating under the plan for them being a cheap Corp to pad activations while splurging on super powerful units elsewhere. It's why everything in the faction is a nuke except B1s, Straps, and Droidekas (the last feeling like an accident admittedly).

It is an interesting faction for sure. They do feel pseudo swarmy and will only get more activations when the generic commander comes out. They do the rebel idea of cheap corp and powerful units but do it better since their corp are even more expendable and harder to remove. I don't think having more B1s would be fair or fun to play against.

Funny enough with how Legion is played you can't really get too swamy with any list right now. If anything I would say that tactical droid is just there to make Maul, Bane, and the tank a lot easier to fit into list. Rebel troopers are taken more like a a cheap swarm compared to how everyone runs B1s.

And for list building the best I can get is 13 for CIS. T-series, 6 B1s, 3 snipers, and 3 STAPs. Now I think that is at least an okay list, but with GAR getting to a strong 11 it does not really seem like much of an advantage? Now if FFG drops the ban hammer on strike teams, I could see CIS maybe getting a swarm list then. CIS could get 12 (2 STAPs and 3 commandos with swords) with a fully loaded faction going down to 9??????? Will be interesting either way.

33 minutes ago, thepopemobile100 said:

This has come up a few times, but entourage B1 always ends up being agreed upon to be broken because of the free order they'd get.

The idea that the CIS would be a horde faction was a player driven idea, not a designer one. The designers seem to be operating under the plan for them being a cheap Corp to pad activations while splurging on super powerful units elsewhere. It's why everything in the faction is a nuke except B1s, Straps, and Droidekas (the last feeling like an accident admittedly).

Good points. If they were allowed to take more B1s they would probably need to come at the cost of lowering or eliminating another unit's max. For instance if you include a unit using B1 Entourage you start to lose your special forces slots. It would somewhat regulate your max units by point cost.

2x Tactical Droid Commanders, 8x B1, 3x Droideka, all naked, are 13 activations and 698 points. Leaves some room for upgrades or swap in an operative for some Droideas. All the while not making it feel like a gimmick or too convoluted rules wise.

12 minutes ago, RyantheFett said:

Funny enough with how Legion is played you can't really get too swamy with any list right now. If anything I would say that tactical droid is just there to make Maul, Bane, and the tank a lot easier to fit into list. Rebel troopers are taken more like a a cheap swarm compared to how everyone runs B1s.

And for list building the best I can get is 13 for CIS. T-series, 6 B1s, 3 snipers, and 3 STAPs. Now I think that is at least an okay list, but with GAR getting to a strong 11 it does not really seem like much of an advantage? Now if FFG drops the ban hammer on strike teams, I could see CIS maybe getting a swarm list then. CIS could get 12 (2 STAPs and 3 commandos with swords) with a fully loaded faction going down to 9??????? Will be interesting either way.

Yeah clones get way too many acts and every act is so strong. It really isn't fun to play against and I feel bad cause I avoid the clone players in my area but I don't want to spend 3 hours getting destroyed.

1 hour ago, Lord Abadeer said:

Rebels still wouldn't have much range 4 if the vets got their heavy to be range 4,

I disagree.

Cassian has an infinite range

DLT20a is range 4 in corps

Vets if you make the change

Pathfinder units

Commando teams have range 5

Atrt laser range 4

Fd1.4 turret range 5

If you gave both range 4 that would be silly, they would raise the points again. The turret could be range 4 otherwise it would continue to get ignored.

30 minutes ago, Lord Abadeer said:

Yeah clones get way too many acts and every act is so strong. It really isn't fun to play against and I feel bad cause I avoid the clone players in my area but I don't want to spend 3 hours getting destroyed.

You can beat clones because the game is still objective based. Its possible to win on objective even if you cant beat them in a fight.

The problem is its not fun playing against them.

You feel like youre completely outclassed every turn and fighting an uphill battle.

1 hour ago, Lord Abadeer said:

The detachment gun definitely need range 4 because of cumbersome. Rebels still wouldn't have much range 4 if the vets got their heavy to be range 4, or it could get suppressive like it had in playtesting. As is it's a really underwhelming heavy and an underwhelming unit.

no it should definitely NOT have range 4 or suppressive.

because if you start handing out range 4 and suppressive to other factions then whats the reason to play imperials?

imperials having more range 4/suppressive weapons than other factions is literally the only advantage they have right now.

im all for buffing the medium blaster but do it in a way that doesnt detract from the advantages of imperials and in a way that makes sense for rebels.

4 minutes ago, buckero0 said:

I disagree.

Cassian has an infinite range

DLT20a is range 4 in corps

Vets if you make the change

Pathfinder units

Commando teams have range 5

Atrt laser range 4

Fd1.4 turret range 5

If you gave both range 4 that would be silly, they would raise the points again. The turret could be range 4 otherwise it would continue to get ignored.

You're right that would be alot. Just adding suppressive to the heavy and courage 2 would be enough. I stand by that the mark 2 still could use range 4.

4 minutes ago, Khobai said:

You can beat clones because the game is still objective based. Its possible to win on objective even if you cant beat them in a fight.

The problem is its not fun playing against them.

You feel like youre completely outclassed every turn and fighting an uphill battle.

I totally get the objective thing but everytime I play clones I've been tabled. That never happens when I play against other factions. The token sharing and the good dice on defense and offense and standby sharing blocking whole sections of the map as no go zones just isn't a playstyle I enjoy playing against.

Nobody enjoys playing against it lol.

19 minutes ago, Khobai said:

Nobody enjoys playing against it lol.

That's what I've gathered too lmao

2 hours ago, Lord Abadeer said:

2 hours ago, Khobai said:

Nobody enjoys playing against it lol.

That's what I've gathered too lmao

That is properly worse then them being overpowered. It is beatable, but it takes a lot of skill and effort which is fine if that was the only issue. The fact that it is not fun to play against for a lot of people is the major issue that FFG really needs to address asap. Something like this could really kill the game. They are just lucky that their yearly patch is after this issue came up. Think of the horror show the pro scene could of been for a whole year lol.

Whats interesting is that CIS and GAR are both stronger than Rebels or Imperials.But CIS is still tons of fun to play against. Everybody loves killing hordes of B1s. Where GAR just makes you wanna ragequit every single turn.

CIS is more fun to play against for two reasons I think. First, their game mechanics dont stop you from playing the game. And second, CIS is a way better designed army that actually has tradeoffs baked into its units. Where GAR just feels like their units are better than yours without any downside whatsoever. They can even get upto 11 activations which nobody understands.

9 minutes ago, Khobai said:

Thats the difference between CIS and GAR.

I would say CIS and GAR are both stronger than Rebels or Imperials.

But CIS is still tons of fun to play against. Everybody loves killing hordes of B1s. Where GAR just makes you wanna ragequit every single turn.

Its because CIS's game mechanics dont prevent you from playing the game. But its also fun because CIS is a better designed army that actually has tradeoffs built into its units. Where GAR just feels like their units are better than yours without any downside they can even get upto 11 activations.

I agree 100 percent. CIS is competitive but not unfair or unfun to play against.

I would still love to see the Dewback get some love. I absolutely adore the big dumb lizards and wish I could run a list made entirely of Dewbacks just for the sheer laughs of maneuvering them around the board and occasionally munching something that dares approach the Lizard King of Tatooine!

I dont even know where youd start with dewbacks.

Spur is an absolutely terrible keyword. Why cant the dewback just be speed 2 with steady instead of relentless? was it really necessary to make the poor thing gain 2 suppression just to make it move the same speed as everything else? I guess they were trying to simulate some kindve animal abuse with the spur rule? but thats not funny. dewbacks are people too. which also begs the question of what op vader is doing to himself with spur... is he flagellating himself with his lightsaber to go faster? I guess you could infer that from the pose.

Dewbacks want to get into melee so theyre overpaying for their ranged weapons that they may only get to use once or twice. The ranged weapon upgrades should definitely come down in cost.

Their survivability sucks because theyre so huge and giving them more than armor 1 doesnt really make sense. then again the at-rt has full armor and that doesnt make any sense either. So giving the dewback full armor might be fine. They should complete the nonsensical trifecta by giving tauntauns full armor too. Just give everything with exposed troopers full armor.

I guess if you fixed some or all of those things theyd at least be better than they are now.

Thematically mortars seem like they shouldn't need LoS. First all factions would need access to one and I think the dice couldn't be modified if there is no LoS and you could only attack something at your same height level or lower and not through something taller than your current height. Defender still gets cover 2.

23 minutes ago, codytx2 said:

Thematically mortars seem like they shouldn't need LoS. First all factions would need access to one and I think the dice couldn't be modified if there is no LoS and you could only attack something at your same height level or lower and not through something taller than your current height. Defender still gets cover 2.

They don't need a direct line to shoot at, but they still need to see where their target is. I think an argument could be made for them not needing line of sight when used as Fire Support, but not otherwise (unless a rule where they use other units for line of sight is made)