How should I handle cybernetics that simulate Force Powers?

Can we please call these Farce Powers.

I want to prevent them from working with Force Powers.

2 hours ago, Lord Dust said:

How should I handle cybernetics that simulate Force Powers?

Can we please call these Farce Powers.

I want to prevent them from working with Force Powers.

By raw, there isn’t any cybernetics that can mimic force powers, though a convincing actor might be able to conceal their use. Otherwise, a single hit from an ion weapon disables it.

otherwise i don’t understand the problem. Force powers are pretty hard coded, talent sheets that only interact with characteristics and force rating and force talents work off the users attributes, cyber or not. Could you provide some examples?

I guess I'd just say each cybernetic grants some of the stats of a power and an associated Force rating for that power.

7 hours ago, Lord Dust said:

How should I handle cybernetics that simulate Force Powers?

Can we please call these Farce Powers.

I want to prevent them from working with Force Powers.

Well, they do not exist, so stopping them from working with actual Force powers should be reasonably simple.

Once you homebrew them into existence, it's going to be very hard, almost impossible to keep them from working with any other game mechanic.

8 hours ago, LordBritish said:

Could you provide some examples?

Move, strength 1. Move one silhouette 2 or smaller object as a Force Power Check Action. Must spend two force plips.

Questions I am trying to solve.

1. How do I power these Farce powers?If I make an implant that says gain Talent(Force Rating) that would just be a generic boost to all force users and not very thematic.an implant that just generates generic plips?

2. It seems the Morality system might be thrown out the window. If your not generating Force points you don't take strain for spending darkside plips.

3. This one Relates to powers like Protect/Unleash. If the power has a Light and Dark side, Should they be broken up to there own powers?

4. Spending Light or Dark plips for powers.

5. Should each power/upgrade be its own implant, or should the be like Implant Move, modification Strength 1?

6. What if a power commits a Force Die?

7. Am I over thinking this?

8. Do I say thank you to often?

Thank you for your help so far.

I think you should have specific devices for individual 'powers' that you are trying to bring into effect. Heal/harm would be achievable with stimpacks and a concealed weapon (which follows the usual weapon rules including soak and weapon qualities), but things like Alter would have to be a very specific device with specific use.

Move is a good candidate to work with, and has a precedent for something similar in Mandalorian Episode 2, where a small floating container with a small creature is constantly following the Mandalorian, and it seems linked to a device on his wrist. Determining the nature of that device would be the hard part, but it could be incorporated into the character cybernetically for an extortionate fee and obeying the other cybernetics rules.

To be completely honest, I think you should avoid using the Force power rules for these things altogether, because it will interact badly with them and lead to some very broken character builds. The best way to prevent them from working with force powers - in my opinion - is to prevent them from using force dice completely.

1 hour ago, Lord Dust said:

1. How do I power these Farce powers?If I make an implant that says gain Talent(Force Rating) that would just be a generic boost to all force users and not very thematic.an implant that just generates generic plips?

2. It seems the Morality system might be thrown out the window. If your not generating Force points you don't take strain for spending darkside plips.

3. This one Relates to powers like Protect/Unleash. If the power has a Light and Dark side, Should they be broken up to there own powers?

4. Spending Light or Dark plips for powers.

5. Should each power/upgrade be its own implant, or should the be like Implant Move, modification Strength 1?

6. What if a power commits a Force Die?

7. Am I over thinking this?

8. Do I say thank you to often?

Thank you for your help so far.

1. Cybernetic gives a power and an associated Farce rating.
2. Yep, no Morality.
3. Yes, they should be broken up into two powers.
4. Spend light pips, but it costs strain to use dark pips. Unassociated from the Force, this is just strain related to the cybernetic.
5. Each power should provide a static number and type of upgrades. So you might have one implant that gives you 1 sil 4 at Medium, and one that gives you 4 sil 0 at Long.
6. You shouldn't use powers that commit Force dice (I don't think). As a general rule, no mental Force powers. No Sense, no Foresee, no Influence, no Battle Meditation, etc.
7. A bit.
8. Stroking our egos is always a good idea.

Magnets and hovering technology would be the best way to mimic telekinesis. That would take prep time or some subterfuge to plant devices while in combat. Much like a stage magician has to set everything up in advance.

Perhaps the PC or NPC could set up locations in advance and lure foes into the area.

Move can be flavored as tractor and repulser beams mounted in the body.

Will post prototype Implants when I get a decent write up ready.

Thank you for your help.

3 hours ago, SuperWookie said:

Magnets and hovering technology would be the best way to mimic telekinesis.

Repulsorlift technology is so ubiquitous in the Star Wars verse that everybody will recognise it for what it is, and probably is what most people assume actual Jedi use as well when they float rocks or whatever.

11 hours ago, micheldebruyn said:

Repulsorlift technology is so ubiquitous in the Star Wars verse that everybody will recognise it for what it is, and probably is what most people assume actual Jedi use as well when they float rocks or whatever.

That's not true by any means. Just look at today's society. We have people using smartphones, tablets, and desktops that couldn't tell you the first thing about computers. All they know is one of two states - it's working, it's not working.

So here is the first draft.

It is wordy, bloated, poorly thought out and slightly insane.

All that is in the spoiler is the Move Farce power.

Other powers are in the works: Unleash, Protect, Sense, Farsee, Enhance, Endure.

Not all upgrades are represented, this is a me limiting some of the options.

Universal Farce Rules

Farce Implants are cybernetic implants and apply against a character's cybernetic limit.

Recognizing Farce Implants as any thing other than Force Powers requires a Hard knowledge(Lore) check or a Daunting Mechanics Check.

Unless noted otherwise, Farce Implants Stack.

Farce Implants have Farce in the name.

=========================================================================

Farce Bio-Energy Generator (Force Rating)

A basic, but crucial part of the Farce Augmentation, The Bio-Energy Generator provides power to other Farce implants to function. The generator is designed to scale power generation to the networked implants.

A Farce Bio-Energy Generator generates one [Farce Plip] for each differently named Farce implant installed. This implant does not stack.

Price: {R}20,000

Encumb: 4

Rarity: 8

=========================================================================

On 8/28/2020 at 4:07 AM, micheldebruyn said:

Repulsorlift technology is so ubiquitous in the Star Wars verse that everybody will recognise it for what it is, and probably is what most people assume actual Jedi use as well when they float rocks or whatever.

“it’s all a lot of simple tricks and nonsense.”

That this attitude is out there, coupled with the wild tech we see in Star Wars, tends to indicate there probably are some simple tricks and nonsense out there, too.

As has been mentioned, magnets and little repulsors are likely among them.

I can imagine some sort of cattle prod up your sleeve could generate Farce Lightning.

Remeber, this stuff doesn’t have to actially duplicate Force powers, just get close enough to fool the rubes.

50 minutes ago, LStyer said:

Remeber, this stuff doesn’t have to actially duplicate Force powers, just get close enough to fool the rubes.

The whole point is to make cybernetic implants to simulate Force powers.

If I was unclear on that, I am sorry.

Does any one have ideas for implants or any thoughts on the ones I posted earlier in the tread?

Thank you for your time.

2 hours ago, Lord Dust said:

The whole point is to make cybernetic implants to simulate Force powers.

If I was unclear on that, I am sorry.

My bad. I didn’t realize you meant cybernetics that literally duplicate Force powers.

In that case I guess you just need a price and a rarity, both of which would probably be pretty high, for each base power and then break the tree into attachments and mods. Probably an attachment for each of Strength, Magnitude, Control and Range, with mods to cover the various instances on the tree.

5 hours ago, LStyer said:

I can imagine some sort of cattle prod up your sleeve could generate Farce Lightning.

Remeber, this stuff doesn’t have to actially duplicate Force powers, just get close enough to fool the rubes.

Well, the first thing you'll need is a guy with lots of Lore who is specialised in Jedi/Sith history who can tell you about real Force powers. Because most of those powers, like Force Lightning and its opposite, are not even remotely common knowledge.

Also, why would you want this?

And would an Inquisitor even care if your Jedi magic is real or fake?

Woops. Double post.

5 hours ago, micheldebruyn said:

Well, the first thing you'll need is a guy with lots of Lore who is specialised in Jedi/Sith history who can tell you about real Force powers. Because most of those powers, like Force Lightning and its opposite, are not even remotely common knowledge.

Also, why would you want this?

And would an Inquisitor even care if your Jedi magic is real or fake?

Maybe because it's a fun idea for a game.

You should really lay off.

1 hour ago, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

Maybe because it's a fun idea for a game.

I don’t think the question is why a player or GM would want to do this, but rather why would a character in the Star Wars universe want to do this. The character’s motivation would surely impact how they went about trying to pull this off, so it’s not an out-of-line question.

The most obvious motivation, to me, would be what I said before, to fool the rubes, presumably as part of some con game, but I’m sure there’s more that someone else could think of.

51 minutes ago, LStyer said:

I don’t think the question is why a player or GM would want to do this, but rather why would a character in the Star Wars universe want to do this. The character’s motivation would surely impact how they went about trying to pull this off, so it’s not an out-of-line question.

The most obvious motivation, to me, would be what I said before, to fool the rubes, presumably as part of some con game, but I’m sure there’s more that someone else could think of.

Indeed.

Plus, it's cybernetics. It's literally getting rid of your own limbs and internal organs to be able to fake being a space wizard.

(Of course, that is something that always bothers me with cybernetics. Sure, I'll get rid of my eye to be able to shoot 5% better and cut off my arm to punch a bit harder, I think not. It's acceptable in settings where transhumanism is a big theme, but Star wars?)

11 minutes ago, micheldebruyn said:

(Of course, that is something that always bothers me with cybernetics. Sure, I'll get rid of my eye to be able to shoot 5% better and cut off my arm to punch a bit harder, I think not. It's acceptable in settings where transhumanism is a big theme, but Star wars?)

I agree it just seems odd. That said, I don’t have a problem believing there would be people in the Star Wars universe who would do that, but they’d be rare and very out of sync psychologically with their society. But that sort of describes PCs, so maybe it’s not a problem after all.

5 minutes ago, micheldebruyn said:

Indeed.

Plus, it's cybernetics. It's literally getting rid of your own limbs and internal organs to be able to fake being a space wizard.

(Of course, that is something that always bothers me with cybernetics. Sure, I'll get rid of my eye to be able to shoot 5% better and cut off my arm to punch a bit harder, I think not. It's acceptable in settings where transhumanism is a big theme, but Star wars?)

Sorry for misjudging your earlier comment.

Implants are a bit different than replacements, and some things are easily explained by someone being eccentric . (Good plot-hole filler, too)

I agree about augmentation, but a lot of the time it is replacing a list limb. I can't really think of any characters off the top of my head that installed cybernetics just for the fun of it. It was generally recovery from some injury or another (Vader, Luke, Screed, Valance, etc.).

Most non-RPG characters prefer to keep all their original fingers and toes whenever possible.

In this case, the "Why?" is an important question. For me, the "Why?" is more a matter of why does the character want to be thought a Jedi/Sith/space wizard, not so much why would he use the cybernetics.

I think the cybernetics are best as one-offs, custom jobs not available for purchase. This is not to say that it's NPC only, or they have to rip them out of the NPC to implant them in their own bodies (yuck), but that you can't just make a rarity check and throw some credits at the wall. Either they would be custom built by the NPC in question or custom built for the NPC in question. I suggest the latter, as then if the PCs want it, it becomes a game of tracking down an elusive and/or reclusive eccentric cyberneticist.

I was not expecting a philosophical debate about transhumanism is Star Wars to pop up.

1. Most people who pick to use cybernetic enhancements/replacements are in dangerous and or violent roles. Bounty Hunters, Mercenary Soldiers.

2. Some races view cybernetics as necessary(Polis Massian) or preferable to their bodies(Ganks).

3. Since the rise of Grevious in the Clone Wars, there has been a galactic stigma against cybernetic enhancement.

4. This whole thing was started by remembering some old lore from the books, and the Marvel's Vader 1.

I am using my dumb question for the day, people have read the implants in the spoiler above right? I ask because no one has commented on them, and or told me to do stuff already done.

Cornelius Evazan has perfected mental transfer in star wars legends.

Thank you for the debate, had not thought about it in years.

3 minutes ago, Lord Dust said:

I am using my dumb question for the day, people have read the implants in the spoiler above right? I ask because no one has commented on them, and or told me to do stuff already done.

Yeah, it looks about fine. I still think that the implant should have an associated Farce rating, rolling Force dice as per usual (costing 1 Strain for dark pips, but no conflict).