That song reminds me a lot of 'You're Welcome' from Moana.

Also... can we talk about how Shoju's "coup" this time (at least so far) is just a bunch of sad coincidences piled atop each other, as opposed to Togashi giving the poor guy a pointlessly cryptic prophecy while also having him goaded by an evil sword into open and unquestionable treason?

Right? I mean if a prophecy says the Last Hantei will bring the return of Fu Leng, then just make sure the Hantei are breeding like rabbits 😂

1 hour ago, Shiba Gunichi said:

Also... can we talk about how Shoju's "coup" this time (at least so far) is just a bunch of sad coincidences piled atop each other, as opposed to Togashi giving the poor guy a pointlessly cryptic prophecy while also having him goaded by an evil sword into open and unquestionable treason?

I feel this is an improvement. Shoju is a tragic hero in many ways, very like the Greek tragedies.

2 hours ago, Diogo Salazar said:

Right? I mean if a prophecy says the Last Hantei will bring the return of Fu Leng, then just make sure the Hantei are breeding like rabbits 😂

I mean that would have been the reasonable response. But since the coup was a fait accompli background story from the previous version of the game and the various attempts to try and justify Shoju's actions as more then just a power play were after the fact it is what it is.

Well, yes, otherwise we wouldn’t have DRAMA. Just imagine if Gandalf’s plan to get rid of the One Ring was to have Frodo drop it from the back of a Great Eagle while other Great Eagles screened for the Nazgûl-Birds!!!

Point is, I am here for new lore Shoju. I feel so, so bad for the guy- he has done nothing out of selfishness, malice, or ambition (so far). If anything, and I love this when it comes to a Scorpion leader, his mistakes have been in trusting people.

31 minutes ago, Shiba Gunichi said:

Point is, I am here for new lore Shoju. I feel so, so bad for the guy- he has done nothing out of selfishness, malice, or ambition (so far). If anything, and I love this when it comes to a Scorpion leader, his mistakes have been in trusting people.

Especially his wife.

By now, it's pretty apparent that the Scorpion, who have been on top of the heap when it comes to standing in the Empire, have met their own, most implacable enemy--themselves.

21 hours ago, Shiba Gunichi said:

Also... can we talk about how Shoju's "coup" this time (at least so far) is just a bunch of sad coincidences piled atop each other, as opposed to Togashi giving the poor guy a pointlessly cryptic prophecy while also having him goaded by an evil sword into open and unquestionable treason?

It makes you wonder how the next events (Clan War, Second Day of Thunder, etc) will be reimagined while still staying true to the original storyline.

7 hours ago, Agrivar said:

It makes you wonder how the next events (Clan War, Second Day of Thunder, etc) will be reimagined while still staying true to the original storyline.

EXACTLY!

Don't be afraid of 'redoing' the old storyline. They can elevate it.

9 minutes ago, KakitaKaori said:

EXACTLY!

Don't be afraid of 'redoing' the old storyline. They can elevate it.

In the Legend of the Five Rings reddit, in the thread were they are talking about "The Last Leaf Falls" fiction, I found this comment which I think it sums quite well what it can be achieved with the redoing the old storyline:

" It's ending up at the same destination but the trip there was so much better."

....and off to one side, the Kolat are just looking on awestruck.

"This is...did we plan this?"

"No...actually we tried to stop it. No idea why , this is awesome."

"I know . Pass the mochi, will you?"

1 hour ago, Magnus Grendel said:

....and off to one side, the Kolat are just looking on awestruck.

"This is...did we plan this?"

"No...actually we tried to stop it. No idea why , this is awesome."

"I know . Pass the mochi, will you?"

I'm seeing it more like Satoshi doing an "Everything is coming up Milhouse impression"

And as Imperial Herald, it would shame the entire Miya family if he revealed such a stain on the Hantei name.

Even were he the most honourable samurai ever, he would struggle to speak. Better to remain silent and respect the late Emperor’s wishes as best as possible. Get Daisetsu back, quietly stuff Sotorii into a monastery, and let Shoju worry about the Clans as Regent.

Hmm best friend of a monarch dying under dubious circumstances is called to handle a Regency and is undone by circumstances and the machinations of a calculative woman 🤔 ...

I think the ASOIAF influence in the ffg's story telling of l5r is fully assumed. No plagiarism, but similar flavor in scope and dramaturgy.

4 minutes ago, Nitenman said:

Hmm best friend of a monarch dying under dubious circumstances is called to handle a Regency and is undone by circumstances and the machinations of a calculative woman 🤔 ...

I think the ASOIAF influence in the ffg's story telling of l5r is fully assumed. No plagiarism, but similar flavor in scope and dramaturgy.

Since when was Littlefinger a woman? Also, it would need to be Kisada for things to be truly parallel.

Also you left out the "and everyone ignores the impending doom gathering just beyond "The Wall That Keeps Everyone Safe".

Can't wait for Daisetsu to travel the rest of the continent and return with an army of eunuch slave-soldiers alongside his Dothraki Unicorn Horde cavalry... 😂

10 hours ago, Doji Hyōkin said:

Even were he the most honourable samurai ever, he would struggle to speak. Better to remain silent and respect the late Emperor’s wishes as best as possible. Get Daisetsu back, quietly stuff Sotorii into a monastery, and let Shoju worry about the Clans as Regent.

With both remaining Hantei Princes.....erm..."somewhere", though, it's a golden opportunity for people with more nefarious intent to ensure that neither of them make it back to the capital.

6 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

With both remaining Hantei Princes.....erm..."somewhere", though, it's a golden opportunity for people with more nefarious intent to ensure that neither of them make it back to the capital.

Geez, I don't envy the guys who get to hunt down Daisetsu because the kid likely has the friggin' Celestial Dragon tucked way in one of the amulets his waifu is carrying.

On 9/1/2020 at 10:43 PM, Tonbo Karasu said:

Since when was Littlefinger a woman? Also, it would need to be Kisada for things to be truly parallel.

But that would be plagiarism. I said influence, not full parallel.

What a time to make a small break. Sumiko and Toturi just made the mother of all mic drops.

*Does Toturi the Black dance*

Poor Shoju, having the Scorpion Clan Coup just falling on his lap. Kachiko better make sure he and Hametsu die before all this ends, because otherwise she will spend eternity bound to a tree.

On 8/29/2020 at 8:05 PM, Kinzen said:

Though an army is admittedly a rather blunt instrument for that task, so maybe she splits them up.

Hitomi always had a thing for blunt instruments.

7 hours ago, Suzume Chikahisa said:

Hitomi always had a thing for blunt instruments.

No that was her brother, at least at his last meeting with Yakamo it was

3 hours ago, Schmoozies said:

No that was her brother, at least at his last meeting with Yakamo it was

I thought that was more about getting trolled by ->technically<- good advice. AKA "If I die here there is a 50-50 chance that my sister will save the Empire or doom it over my death... What?! WAITAMINUTE!" *crash*

On 8/27/2020 at 9:47 AM, Doji Hyōkin said:

This is Kakita Yoshi’s greatest moment yet. He’s the only Imperial official untainted by scandal.

Does Seppun Ishikawa not count as an Imperial Official? Because-- he's still got control of all the soldiers in the castle.

On 8/27/2020 at 10:08 AM, Doji Hyōkin said:

SPOILER

SPOILER

SPOILER

SPOILER

SPOILER

We have a Black Dragon AND a Black Lion! Do they encounter Daisetsu & Shahai? Or do they find Sotorii? Maybe Toturi suggests they visit his ol’ pal Hotaru in Toshi Ranbo?

So many ways to discover how terribly wrong they are, and how, in covering for Bayushi Kachiko’s own cover-up, Bayushi Shoju is a conspirator and thus guilty of the crimes they accuse him of.

But of course, had Shoju revealed the truth to the Imperial Court after Kachiko’s confession, that revelation could have sundered the Empire. And of course, Imperial tradition is ‘when in doubt, lie to protect the Hantei name’.

It is a Scorpion Clan Coup, just not Shoju’s. Somehow, the Master of Whispers is the one left holding the bag.

I would guess that since Daisetsu & Shahai are apparently headed for Dragon Clan lands, Sumiko will find him.

Since Sotorii is being passed around among ronin, Toturi will find him.

On 8/28/2020 at 12:07 AM, Diogo Salazar said:

The only thing that bothers me is Shoju's inability to foresee all this the moment he found out Sotorii was the one that murdered the Emperor and Kachiko kept it hidden.

He could have forged documents, saying, for instance, that Sotorii wasn't the Emperor's legitimate son, and that's why the Emperor had decided to remove him from the line of inheritance and when Sotorii found out, he killed the Emperor. The line of the Hantei would be kept blameless and anyone that lived in Otosan Uchi would nod their heads in agreement that it totally made sense that Sotorii wasn't actually the Emperor's son.

He later could quietly get rid of Aramoro and Kachiko even inviting Toturi to show Aramoro's execution (who apparently finally learned some lessons about how the world really works).

Of course, in this way, we do have more drama. But it still bothers me that with all the information gathering network that the Scorpion supposedly have in the capital, Toturi was able to be kept hidden for as long as he did (half a summer and almost the entirety of autumn?)

At least, this way, the human element is really what keeps driving the plot and I hope that if a Second Day of Thunder is to come, that it arrives by 2025? I'm okay in dragging the Clan Wars for five years.

Did... the Gozoku and Hantei the XVI not happen in this timeline, because... this wouldn't be the first time imperials, even a Hantei, had killed a sitting emperor though...

It was far more justified in those circumstances, and wasn't done with the ancestral sword, but-- it seems like there is precedent for this. And if we extend patricide and fratricide to Clan Champion positions-- I think it happens far from infrequently.

We've even had one character declare herself clan champion and another is planning to kill his sister and clan champion-- so... yeah, I do have to wonder if this is just at all so surprising.

Granted-- there is a fairly big difference between killing your unarmed father in a blind rage and immediately wanting to commit suicide and challenging them to a duel and declaring oneself the new champion upon winning. But my understanding is that Hantei the XVI didn't go down in an honorable duel.

On 8/28/2020 at 9:23 AM, Doji Hyōkin said:

Daisetsu can’t claim Sotorii’s illegitimate as long as their mother Hantei Hochiahime is still alive. Jodan may have used precedent to deny him the title of heir, but he wasn’t cast out of the Imperial family. Until he’s executed, dispossessed as ronin or retires to a monastery, he is still Hantei Sotorii.

The counter-argument that Shahai had done it in defence of Daisetsu’s life would be met with agreement for honourable seppuku or exile as a ronin. Daisetsu chose the last option, and decided to join her.

I really have to wonder why no one has even thought to call the Empress during all of this. Seems like someone should have found her and tried to get her to take the throne by now. And, if not her, didn't Jodan have any brothers or sisters, and if they passed-- didn't they have kids? Someone retaking the Hantei name is, again, something that has already happened assuming history in the new timeline is mostly the same as the old.

Why would Jodan have ever decided to put a Scorpion in charge of the Empire knowing how the 7 clans are constantly trying to destroy each other instead of a neutral party from his own "clan"?

On 8/28/2020 at 5:47 PM, AtoMaki said:

Daisetsu can say that there was no strike in the first place and none will be wiser.

By the way, I was thinking, and didn't Toturi miss a very important detail in his big "a random Scorpion just waltzed into the Emperor's chambers and killed him with the Ancestral Sword of the Hantei" scenario? Like, shouldn't there be a certain group of people whose task is to prevent this? And if the scenario is correct - as Toturi thinks - doesn't that implicate these people as collaborators? Heck, if this scenario is taken seriously, then Kaede can be a collaborator due to the circumstances.

Depending on how things go... Sotorii might be the one to claim he simply made a mistake because it was dark.

Then again, even if he levels out in the company of ronin, I have to imagine he'd do everything in his power to ensure Daisetsu never rule-- and seeing that his girlfriend (or possibly wife by the time things shake out) is killed might well be one way of lashing out.

Honestly-- it might be most interesting if neither prince is found by any important or influential characters for a good 5 to 10 years within the timeline. But I suppose that would warrant a timeskip that the rest of the plotlines are too pressing to allow.

1 hour ago, TheHobgoblyn said:

Does Seppun Ishikawa not count as an Imperial Official? Because-- he's still got control of all the soldiers in the castle.

Yes but he also bears the fault of being the commander of the troops that let the Emperor be murdered in his own chambers, fail to detect that the wards that protect the palace had failed, and lost Sotorii on his way to the monetary. While he wasn't personally responsible for any of these failings as the man at the top of the food chain he does get to wear the potential fallout of the failures

1 hour ago, TheHobgoblyn said:

I would guess that since Daisetsu & Shahai are apparently headed for Dragon Clan lands, Sumiko will find him.

Since Sotorii is being passed around among ronin, Toturi will find him.

Daisetsu, Shahai are unlikely to end up being involved with Sumiko as all indications were she would be retiring to one of the monasteries near the capital and not to Dragon lands.

Toturi on the other hand encountering Sotorii seems quite possible, unless he sets out specifically to find Daisetsu and heads to Dragon lands first which would actually be a nod to his old lore where he started out leading a Dragon/Ronin army at Beiden pass that eventually morphed into the Toturi's Army.

1 hour ago, TheHobgoblyn said:

Did... the Gozoku and Hantei the XVI not happen in this timeline, because... this wouldn't be the first time imperials, even a Hantei, had killed a sitting emperor though...

It was far more justified in those circumstances, and wasn't done with the ancestral sword, but-- it seems like there is precedent for this. And if we extend patricide and fratricide to Clan Champion positions-- I think it happens far from infrequently.

We've even had one character declare herself clan champion and another is planning to kill his sister and clan champion-- so... yeah, I do have to wonder if this is just at all so surprising.

Granted-- there is a fairly big difference between killing your unarmed father in a blind rage and immediately wanting to commit suicide and challenging them to a duel and declaring oneself the new champion upon winning. But my understanding is that Hantei the XVI didn't go down in an honorable duel.

While we've had mention of Hantei XVI and the Gozoku, we also have to consider the tradition of the Rokugani "sanitizing" their history of anything that speaks ill of an Emperor so knowledge like this isn't wide spread. Also we have to remember that the events we are looking at right now are happening at a pretty "breakneck" speed. Its only been a few weeks at this point since the Emperor's death things are developing very much on an ongoing basis.

1 hour ago, TheHobgoblyn said:

I really have to wonder why no one has even thought to call the Empress during all of this. Seems like someone should have found her and tried to get her to take the throne by now. And, if not her, didn't Jodan have any brothers or sisters, and if they passed-- didn't they have kids? Someone retaking the Hantei name is, again, something that has already happened assuming history in the new timeline is mostly the same as the old.

Why would Jodan have ever decided to put a Scorpion in charge of the Empire knowing how the 7 clans are constantly trying to destroy each other instead of a neutral party from his own "clan"?

Her opinion doesn't actually matter. As long as Jodan acknowledged Daisetsu as his son he's an heir. Also while she is Empress she isn't a Hantei by birth so has no right to the throne. The protocol would be that the Imperial Chancellor (Yoshi) administers the Empire as regent until a new Emperor is able to ascend the throne. However the final edict threw that usual line into disarray by naming Shoju as regent instead.

As to why put Shoju in charge, in Jodan's mind it did make sense when you consider that Shoju is one of Jodan's few actual "friends" and someone that he personally respected and understood the value of. What couldn't be anticipated was that Shoju's legitimacy would be called into question by his own son murdering him the night before the edict was to be proclaimed. If the Emperor had been around to make the edict official the entire "crisis" goes away, but then that means we have no real story so that couldn't be allowed to happen.