Is there a number of activations that you usually aim for?

Enough to get the mission done without being a hoard and prohibitively expensive to collect and unfun to play against?

Not so many that you can still bring some high quality badassery, but also with enough activations to still accomplish the mission?

Do you have a number you aim for? A range? Different numbers for factions? For play styles?

43 minutes ago, yoink101 said:

Is there a number of activations that you usually aim for?

Enough to get the mission done without being a hoard and prohibitively expensive to collect and unfun to play against?

Not so many that you can still bring some high quality badassery, but also with enough activations to still accomplish the mission?

Do you have a number you aim for? A range? Different numbers for factions? For play styles?

Lately, as a Rebel Player, I try not to go underneath 10 activations, simply by virtue of how easily rebel troopers die. Honestly, because of my high preference for Hero units, special forces, and supports, I don't often go above that either, though I could see it being a thing if I really wanted to shoot for something super meta.

2 hours ago, Cruzer said:

Lately, as a Rebel Player, I try not to go underneath 10 activations, simply by virtue of how easily rebel troopers die. Honestly, because of my high preference for Hero units, special forces, and supports, I don't often go above that either, though I could see it being a thing if I really wanted to shoot for something super meta.

How do you usually spread things out? 6 bare bones corps with the other four kittted to the max? More of a balanced spread? Are there any things that you feel pull their weight enough to always take them? Sorry for the barrage, I’m just getting into the game, so miming for ideas and thoughts.

1 minute ago, yoink101 said:

How do you usually spread things out? 6 bare bones corps with the other four kittted to the max? More of a balanced spread? Are there any things that you feel pull their weight enough to always take them? Sorry for the barrage, I’m just getting into the game, so miming for ideas and thoughts.

I generally go with 3 bare corps units, then I always run at least 3 commanders and operatives, often the full 4. After that, I include a mix of either special forces or supports in the remaining 3-4 slots. If I kit out anything, it's the the 7 non-corps, but it is on a case-by-case basis. Sabine, Luke (either), Jyn, K-2SO and Cassian are all ones who I often kit out completely (maybe with the exception of one unused slot), Tauntauns and AT-RTs a good 4/5 times will get both slots filled (often comm jammer and the training/hardpoint), then the Pathfinders (always Duck and Cover and the configurable rifle, often with Pao or Bistan, occasionally with comm jammer), finally the commando strike team (just the sniper).

Every now and then I'll slip a dlt20 on a corps unit i know is going to stay behind. Otherwise, rebel corps troopers have been bare for me for over 2 years. I've used the vets a couple of times but I i want to compete at all, its 4 heroes and whatever else i can squeeze in. R2 doesn't cost enough to need command cards, Luke really wants certain command cards, Cassian really needs K2s0.

AtRt flamers or Tauntauns soak up shots

Mandalorian troopers will probably take that spot in a couple of months

For Republic i would say that the sweet spot is either 8 or 9 activations but that it changing with every new release at the moment.

I have figured out a 10 Activation list for Republic but i will have to wait for the ARCs and AT-RT to come out,

Rex (recon, Aggressive)

3x Phase 2 (z6, overwatch, targeting scopes)

3x Arc Strike teams (DC15x)

3x AT-RT (hardpoints to flavour, im thinking 2 flames + 1 rotary)

Maybe it's because I'm somewhat new to the game, but honestly I don't get, and certainly don't abide by, the apparent fever of activations that has got to some people (people who write the blogs and such). Why on earth would you want 14 activations of absolute trash that are going to get demolished at a pace of two per turn? You'll be losing activations faster than the opponent simply because each of them is made of butter.

I don't know, maybe I'm biased because as Empire I tend to have the longer range and I can simply out-wait the enemy. In any case I tend to play 8-10 activations and have never felt at a disadvantage because of it.

9 hours ago, Qwar said:

Maybe it's because I'm somewhat new to the game, but honestly I don't get, and certainly don't abide by, the apparent fever of activations that has got to some people (people who write the blogs and such). Why on earth would you want 14 activations of absolute trash that are going to get demolished at a pace of two per turn? You'll be losing activations faster than the opponent simply because each of them is made of butter.

I don't know, maybe I'm biased because as Empire I tend to have the longer range and I can simply out-wait the enemy. In any case I tend to play 8-10 activations and have never felt at a disadvantage because of it.

Yeah, Empire does have a lot going for them as far as positives. The average trooper rolls Red DEF, their long-range heavy weapons tend to kick the crap out of the equivalent in other armies, and their heavies are fully armored and either roll Red or have a huge wound threshold. By and large, the Empire can take more ground with less units as a rule, and unlike the Clones who only remain effective in a bunch, they can spread out as much as they want and keep their base effectiveness.

That said, I am SUPER doubtful that 14 activations would really ever work. As you said, running a ton of terrible low-cost units doesn't compare to investing in a few high-price ones.

If you had built a 14 activation list then the first thing i would say is remove 2 or 3 of the stormtroopers that are in there and give everything else some upgrades, spam lists only really work when there are some hard hitters in the army, just spam does less in the long run

I usually aim for 9+ activations. But Ive played janky 7 activation lists too. they work fine as long as your opponent isnt playing their busted meta clone army with 11 activations.

It helps that weve essentially banned strike teams from our table because they ruin the game. Low cost activation spam is unbalanced because taking multiple cheap activations is inherently better than taking expensive activations. FFG seriously needs to fix it.

They really need to add a pass option to the game so low activation lists arnt as seriously disadvantaged.

And if the other player also passes?

4 hours ago, Qwar said:

And if the other player also passes?

I think Kohbai was referring to pass rules such as the one for example that FFG instituted for Imperial Assault.

if you had less activations remaining on the board than your opponent you had the option to pass, but as soon as you have the same number of activations as your opponent you are no longer able to pass.

i.e. its your turn and your opponent has 8 activations and you have 7, you can pass, once your opponent finishes their next activation you both have 7 left at which point you can no longer pass.

I would actually make it a comms card that you can only use if you have less activations than your opponent. you would exhaust it to allow the equipped unit to pass and reshuffle its command token into the command stack so it can activate later in the turn.

since it would be exhausted the amount of times you can use it would be limited

the reason i would make it a comms card is because there needs to be more good comms cards.

there are many different ways pass can be implemented into the game though and i feel its very much needed to help lists with low activation counts. because the game punishes you too much for using more expensive models like 150+ point vehicles and thats really wrong. FFG has the same problem in all their other games and their other games added pass mechanics to fix it so it makes sense to add it to legion too.

Another potential solution is just to get rid of strike teams entirely.They have completely ruined the game by adding so many cheap activations. People run 2-3 of them in every list and Im quite frankly sick of it. Even clones which are supposed to be an elite army with lower activation count are getting 11+ activations because of strike team. Its one of the main reasons clones are completely broken right now. FFG absolutely needs to do something about it.

So a player has to pay for an upgrade to pass? That seems bad...

That’s how it works for armada

Glad I don’t play armada then. The idea of passing to me is dumb. Just make activations determine blue player and the problem gets solved. It disincentivizes maxing activations because that could work against you in missions. At that point you’re giving up the ability to dictate the terms of the game in order to have more activations (not necessarily better quality activations though)

11 minutes ago, Mokoshkana said:

Glad I don’t play armada then. The idea of passing to me is dumb. Just make activations determine blue player and the problem gets solved. It disincentivizes maxing activations because that could work against you in missions. At that point you’re giving up the ability to dictate the terms of the game in order to have more activations (not necessarily better quality activations though)

To be clear, in Armada you can buy a maximum of one pass, taking up a very valuable upgrade slot, and only on certain ships. Armada MSU fleets are perfectly valid.

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So a player has to pay for an upgrade to pass? That seems bad...

Youre essentially paying points for a delayed activation. As long as it doesnt cost too many points I dont see how its bad. It could also cost 0 points. Why does it need to cost points at all, if you can only use it if you have less activations, then it would probably be fine as a 0 cost upgrade. As long as its a unique upgrade that can only be taken once.

Besides how is that any different than what people do by paying points for strike teams to delay the activation of their more powerful units?

Oh it isnt any different. ITS MECHANICALLY THE SAME EXACT THING.... paying points to delay an activation. derp.

Youre just paying for an comms upgrade that does it instead of a strike team that does it. So you give players the option of doing the same thing without having to spam strike teams. Which in turn allows for better list diversity by allowing low activation lists to compete better with high activation lists.

And yes passing needs to be implemented in this game, just like its been implemented in other FFG games, because activation advantage is a fundamental flaw in all FFG games that punishes people for not playing the game in a very boring and spammy way. Oh look at me I spam all arc troopers and clone mk2s with a cheap commander like rex, my list is so interesting. That unbalanced dumpster fire is exactly whats wrong with the game right now.

The alternative would be to remove strike teams from the game entirely. Even FFG knows strike teams are the problem they just arnt sure what to do about them. Adding a pass mechanic would be the soft handed approach to not having to remove strike teams. Removing them completely would be the heavy handed approach. Im fine with either.

48 minutes ago, Khobai said:

Oh it isnt any different. ITS MECHANICALLY THE SAME EXACT THING.... paying points to delay an activation. derp.

Paying points for a unit that actually does stuff is the same thing as paying points for no unit that doesn't do anything other than "use" an activation? I think you need to relook at that. One of them puts a token into the pile that changes the odds of what can go when (issued orders aside) while the other does not.

Also, derp? How very mature of you.

yes paying points for a theoretical upgrade that allows you to pass and delay the activation of a unit is mechanically the same thing as taking a sniper unit for the expressed purpose of delaying another units activation.

you dont take snipers because they can attack; snipers arnt a particularly efficient or amazing combat unit after their points nerf, the true value behind snipers is the cheap additional activation they afford you. the real reason you take snipers is to up your activation count and stall the activation of your more impactful units until later in the turn.

And you pay a lot of extra points for the ability of snipers to attack. A comm upgrade that lets you pass would cost considerably less points. And again it mechanically does the same thing as taking snipers by allowing you to stall the activation of another unit until later in the turn. And again DERP. This is obvious stuff I dont like having to explain it.

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One of them puts a token into the pile that changes the odds of what can go when (issued orders aside) while the other does not.

Gee if only there was a way to place tokens face up so they dont go into the pile randomly so you could manipulate the order your units can activate in. Something like that would sure add an element of strategy to the game.

When you run snipers and you need your non-sniper units to activate last in the turn you dont put the snipers in the pile randomly with those other units. You give the snipers faceup tokens so they activate first and you can stall your other activations until later. #commandcardsmatter

The purpose of adding a communication upgrade card that lets you pass on an activation would be to do the same thing but without having to spam a bunch of snipers which decreases list versatility greatly when everyone spams sniper units. I dont see how you can see that as a bad thing. Rex, mk2 clones, and arc troopers is a toxic meta and steps need to be taken to change it.

17 hours ago, Khobai said:

yes paying points for a theoretical upgrade that allows you to pass and delay the activation of a unit is mechanically the same thing as taking a sniper unit for the expressed purpose of delaying another units activation.

you dont take snipers because they can attack; snipers arnt a particularly efficient or amazing combat unit after their points nerf, the true value behind snipers is the cheap additional activation they afford you. the real reason you take snipers is to up your activation count and stall the activation of your more impactful units until later in the turn.

And you pay a lot of extra points for the ability of snipers to attack. A comm upgrade that lets you pass would cost considerably less points. And again it mechanically does the same thing as taking snipers by allowing you to stall the activation of another unit until later in the turn. And again DERP. This is obvious stuff I dont like having to explain it.

Gee if only there was a way to place tokens face up so they dont go into the pile randomly so you could manipulate the order your units can activate in. Something like that would sure add an element of strategy to the game.

When you run snipers and you need your non-sniper units to activate last in the turn you dont put the snipers in the pile randomly with those other units. You give the snipers faceup tokens so they activate first and you can stall your other activations until later. #commandcardsmatter

The purpose of adding a communication upgrade card that lets you pass on an activation would be to do the same thing but without having to spam a bunch of snipers which decreases list versatility greatly when everyone spams sniper units. I dont see how you can see that as a bad thing. Rex, mk2 clones, and arc troopers is a toxic meta and steps need to be taken to change it.

Seriously? Haha okay tough guy, have it your way. You're clearly the subject matter expert on legion. Thanks for enlightening me...

2 minutes ago, Mokoshkana said:

Seriously? Haha okay tough guy, have it your way. You're clearly the subject matter expert on legion. Thanks for enlightening me...

It is buck wild that you would respond to his post like that when in your very last post you responded to one word that he used that you didn't like with the phrase "How very mature of you."

On 8/4/2020 at 5:18 PM, Khobai said:

Youre essentially paying points for a delayed activation. As long as it doesnt cost too many points I dont see how its bad. It could also cost 0 points. Why does it need to cost points at all, if you can only use it if you have less activations, then it would probably be fine as a 0 cost upgrade. As long as its a unique upgrade that can only be taken once.

Besides how is that any different than what people do by paying points for strike teams to delay the activation of their more powerful units?

Oh it isnt any different. ITS MECHANICALLY THE SAME EXACT THING.... paying points to delay an activation. derp.

Youre just paying for an comms upgrade that does it instead of a strike team that does it. So you give players the option of doing the same thing without having to spam strike teams. Which in turn allows for better list diversity by allowing low activation lists to compete better with high activation lists.

And yes passing needs to be implemented in this game, just like its been implemented in other FFG games, because activation advantage is a fundamental flaw in all FFG games that punishes people for not playing the game in a very boring and spammy way. Oh look at me I spam all arc troopers and clone mk2s with a cheap commander like rex, my list is so interesting. That unbalanced dumpster fire is exactly whats wrong with the game right now.

The alternative would be to remove strike teams from the game entirely. Even FFG knows strike teams are the problem they just arnt sure what to do about them. Adding a pass mechanic would be the soft handed approach to not having to remove strike teams. Removing them completely would be the heavy handed approach. Im fine with either.

How about only one strike team allowed for each full strength version of the same unit?

On 8/10/2020 at 9:57 AM, Olephantor said:

How about only one strike team allowed for each full strength version of the same unit?

Kind of like the Shoretroopers and their mortar or the Rebel Veterans?

Interesting . . . I think you'd eliminate the commando/scout team from Rebels/Imperial and you'd only see the CW era units used (they are much better anyway).

I still think its a problem that units are made obsolete by another unit in the army. I still like stormtroopers, someone keeps releasing stuff for them, so they don't seem to see it as a problem, maybe the designers need to play the same game as the rest of the community or work on balancing those previous units that are overused. But that's all idealism. I think you get what you get in this game and its up to you to decide what's fun for you and your community.

On 8/4/2020 at 12:18 AM, Commodore Gardner said:

To be clear, in Armada you can buy a maximum of one pass, taking up a very valuable upgrade slot, and only on certain ships. Armada MSU fleets are perfectly valid.

Well, there's also the SSD with its built in pass.

And with the Clone Wars sets coming out at the end of the year, they've said that the rules for passing are going to be expanded, which is the dial pack will also come with pass tokens.