Which Force Powers Work Against Droids, and Why?

By SufficientlyAdvancedMoronics, in Star Wars: Force and Destiny RPG

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I haven't seen these explicitly asked, and I wanted to get some clarity for a scenario that will definitely come up in a session I'll be running soon.

Which force powers do people think would work on droids, and which would not? Specifically, the following powers:

  • Seek (finding a droid)
  • Harm (injuring a droid)
  • Unleash (injuring a droid)
  • Protect (protecting a droid)
  • Bind (holding a droid)
  • Move (moving a droid)
  • Alter (impeding or aiding a droid)

I mostly want to know about Harm, Unleash and Bind... but players do unwise unexpected things and I thought it best to ask about all the above. Some of these I think make narrative sense one way or another, but I'd like to get the opinions of the council.

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Seek works on a person or object, so I would say Droids count.

Harm manipulates living energy, so I would say Droids do not count.

Unleash, I think manifests energy physically which would work on Droids.

Protect, would be the same as unleash, think creating a shield or absorbing the attack.

Bind is really another way to use Telekinesis, which effects physical matter. This would work on Droids.

Move would be the same as Bind. Telekinesis would work on Droids.

Alter effects the environment and the Droid moves through the environment the same as other beings.

I would conclude that all of these would work on Droids except Harm.

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11 minutes ago, DarthKaage said:

Seek works on a person or object, so I would say Droids count.

Harm manipulates living energy, so I would say Droids do not count.

Unleash, I think manifests energy physically which would work on Droids.

Protect, would be the same as unleash, think creating a shield or absorbing the attack.

Bind is really another way to use Telekinesis, which effects physical matter. This would work on Droids.

Move would be the same as Bind. Telekinesis would work on Droids.

Alter effects the environment and the Droid moves through the environment the same as other beings.

I would conclude that all of these would work on Droids except Harm.

I concur with the above.

@SufficientlyAdvancedMoronics , as a suggestion, you may want to consider allowing characters with Manipulate to also use some abilities like Heal/Harm.

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4 minutes ago, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

you may want to consider allowing characters with Manipulate to also use some abilities like Heal/Harm

Good call

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There might be some applications of the above powers that might take some mental yoga to make sense narratively, but it can be done.

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In general when parsing the Force power descriptions for relevance/irrelevance to droids, one should note the absence/presence of the term "living target". It might be in the general description of the power, or it might be in a particular form or upgrade. For example, the Misdirect power works only on living targets. Other important terms include "mind-altering" or the like.

One Force power to keep in mind when debating this question is the Ebb form of Ebb/Flow (from Disciples of Harmony p. 38).

The underlying theme of the Ebb/Flow power is that of playing with the flow of the Force as it affects probability and prescience. Therefore the power is related to the Unifying Force (as opposed to the more biologically-focused Living Force). Not once does it require that the target be a living creature.

However, some GMs believe that the basic form of Ebb shouldn't affect droids. The main reasoning seems to be that droids as mechanical beings "cannot be affected by mind-altering Force powers" ( EotE p. 47) and that suffering Strain is a mental effect. I disagree with that reasoning in relation to Ebb.

Ebb does not alter the minds of the user's enemies (unlike Influence), instead it affects the flow of the Force as expressed in probability and prescience. This could be expressed as follows ... Did the living enemy accidentally over-extend himself and therefore suffer physical stress? Did the droid suddenly have a circuit misfire and therefore suffer physical stress?

Droids are obviously not immune to suffering from Strain (see, for example, Ion damage), and Strain does not come from just mental sources. As per its description ( EotE p. 216, FaD p. 222), Strain includes physical effects - minor electrical shocks, being violently shaken, suffering from overheating, etc. - as well as the more commonly used mental/emotional effects and Stun damage. If a droid is subjected to electrical shocks, to having its "circuits shaken" from being thrown around, or is overheated, then it too should likewise be able to suffer from the related Strain.

The Ebb form of the Ebb/Flow power "hinders" those around the user. Who's to say that that hindering doesn't manifest itself as Strain from an accidentally mis-firing circuit or some other (im)probable factor?

More Ebb-related comments in the spoiler ...

Some might suggest that Strain-infliction on droids is already covered by a Manipulate power upgrade ( Endless Vigil p. 36), and that it would be redundant to allow Ebb to do the same. My answer is that both the Bind and the Move powers can be used to catch a falling person ( FaD p. 287), and that a Vigilance-based Initiative check can have Force dice added to it from either the Foresee power ( FaD p. 290) or the Farsight power ( Savage Spirits p. 36). In other words, there are already examples of such redundancies in the system.

Some might protest against how "easy" it is to use Ebb in this "unbalanced" way. It's not easy. With the basic form of Ebb, the user spends 1 Force pip, suffers 1 Strain himself, and inflicts only 1 Strain to each Engaged character around him (and there's no friend/foe distinction).

It requires an upgrade to de-select a target around the user (and costs a Force pip for each de-selected target). It requires an upgrade to increase the area of effect to its maximum, Short range (and costs Force pips to do so). It requires an upgrade to inflict more than 1 Strain on those around the user (and that costs 1 Force pip per extra Strain inflicted on everyone). Multiple Force pips in these numbers require multiple Force dice, and many Force-users might also be limiting themselves to either the Light pips or the Dark pips. In other words, if the player has spent so much XP on gaining enough Force dice to use all these upgrades (which also cost XP), then it's not "easy" and it's not "unbalanced". (Certainly not when compared to some high-XP builds which I've seen in action.)

Ebb works differently than the Influence power. Although Influence works only on living beings, its range is limited only by the upgrades bought and Force pips spent, and it doesn't cost the user 1 Strain.

Minions and minion groups (including droids) should be affected by Ebb. If a GM is worried about a Nemesis or a plot-important named Rival - then that's what the "Resisting Force Power Checks" sidebar ( FaD p. 283) is for.

Worried about huge, confusing dice pools? That's the nature of this game, particularly at the high-XP level of play.

(I should add that this post became an accidental rant by the end, and that it was definitely not directed at any one specific GM.)

Edited by Bellona
Wording.
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On 7/6/2020 at 2:13 PM, DarthKaage said:

This is pretty straight forward.

I always saw Force unleash as force lightning. And Force Protect similar to Force Repulse and or tutaminis

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Not that there is a huge problem with the above comment, but I never posted what is in that quote.

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On 7/29/2020 at 6:23 PM, Scoots291 said:

protect is not repulse. That is move. Protect is whatnyoda used to catch Dookus lightning. Or Bastille to catch a lightsaber.

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On 7/30/2020 at 11:54 PM, Daeglan said:

protect is not repulse. That is move. Protect is whatnyoda used to catch Dookus lightning. Or Bastille to catch a lightsaber.

On 7/29/2020 at 7:23 PM, Scoots291 said:

tutaminis ?

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13 minutes ago, Scoots291 said:

huh?