All I’ll say on this tangent is that, from where I sit, the more partisan someone is, the more invested they are in demonizing and not understanding the “other side.”

Good and bad ideas and people exist all along the political spectrum. The increasingly hostile ultra-partisan tribalism currently seen in the US doesn’t help anyone except those with a vested interest in keeping the populace divided.

Jedi Knight at 15 ! That's very young to be knighted. She was knighted just out the Jedi Academy without spending anytime as Padawan ?

I believe they might be going for a "medieval" feel here, rather than than the more modern settings of the PT, OT, & ST. 15, by most medieval standards, are an adult and well within the age of a journeyman level fellow.

13 hours ago, WolfRider said:

Jedi Knight at 15 ! That's very young to be knighted. She was knighted just out the Jedi Academy without spending anytime as Padawan ?

Were Padawans even a thing back then?

2 hours ago, micheldebruyn said:

Were Padawans even a thing back then?

As I recall Padawan was used in the Old Republic comics

22 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

As I recall Padawan was used in the Old Republic comics

Which are not canon, because the entire Old Republic setting isn't canon.

2 minutes ago, micheldebruyn said:

Which are not canon, because the entire Old Republic setting isn't canon.

sure. but it does tell you how far back the term was used and therefore how likely that name will be used in the High Republic Era.

17 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

sure. but it does tell you how far back the term was used and therefore how likely that name will be used in the High Republic Era.

Well, no, it doesn't. That's what "not canon" means.

2 hours ago, micheldebruyn said:

Well, no, it doesn't. That's what "not canon" means.

And you have even less evidence. And likely they will still use the term

7 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

And you have even less evidence. And likely they will still use the term

I am asking a question. Therefore I do not need evidence.

1 hour ago, micheldebruyn said:

I am asking a question. Therefore I do not need evidence.

Ibsee no question. I see a statemrnt.

1 hour ago, micheldebruyn said:

I am asking a question. Therefore I do not need evidence.

4 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

Ibsee no question. I see a statemrnt.

The question sounds rhetorical because there is no possible answer within current canon. It is a legitimate question, but the context makes it seem out of place.

8 hours ago, micheldebruyn said:

Were Padawans even a thing back then?

I think yes. Padawans are Star Wars' Squires and Jedi Knight are modelled after Knight Templars, Knight Hospitallers and so on. There isn't knights without squires and most kights have been squires before.

It fits the whole young adult protagonist thing SW usually has going on. Luke & Leia are only 19 (one of them is a senator!), Anakin is a pre-teen race car driver, teenagers lead ambiguously-aged soldiers in TCW, etc.

I hate this. Love it or hate it these films exist.

I personally despise the idea that Disney would bow to any kind of pressure from fans to 'reset' the sequel trilogy universe just because it hurt their pwecious widdle feelings!

This is what annoyed me about Metal Gear Solid 3 and 4, they took time out to poke fun at the protagonist from Metal Gear Solid 2 because there was such a backlash and it just felt like pandering to win points. It's okay not to like something, to stick your fingers in your ear and go 'lalalala' until you're told what you WANT to hear is not an adult way of dealing with things and its one of the many reasons I DESPISE what those people have made the Star Wars fanbase...

...sorry did I come on a little strongly there?

On 7/1/2020 at 9:48 AM, micheldebruyn said:

It kinda has got everything to do with money-making, because a 200+ billion dollar movie isn't going to make any profit if it appeals to just the core fanbase, which is just... tiny compared to the mainstream audience that buys a good 95% of the tickets.

Well....yes and no. Our favourite fighter plane is right and so are you.

Ticket sales are important, but so is merchandising and a lot of the mainstream audience will pay for the ticket, go and see the movie and that's it. Maybe pick up the blu ray or digital copy in the future. The core fanbase will absorb the film and more content.

Without actual figures, its difficult to say what has more of an impact, but there's a reason 20th Century Fox are kicking themselves to this day that they gave George Lucas the merchandising rights because THAT is what made George his heaps of cash.

On 7/1/2020 at 4:40 AM, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

A fanbase are the people who follow and care about the product, the mainstream audience is the general population that enjoys the product. The core fanbase are going to be the people who are most passionate about the product.

With all respect, while everyone's viewpoints are valid and important. I can't take the people who rag on the sequels seriously and that's not because they are hating but at the level they are taking it. They hated The Last Jedi so much that they decided to 'punish' Disney by not watching Solo which on its own was not a bad movie. That's dedication on an almost nuclear childish level.

We've progressed to a society where if something isn't the way you want it, then it MUST be changed, it must be CORRECTED to be catered for them specifically. I'm not a particular fan of The Force Awakens or the whiplash between The Last Jedi and The Rise of Skywalker caused by Disney backpeddling. However I'm not going on the internet saying Disney should be ashamed or fix it because I acknowledge that in a series with 11 films a part of it, I am not going to like everything.

I'm not saying you can't be critical, but the criticism stops at you.

This clickbait article has the Fandom Menance probably harder than a lesson with Master Yoda because it validates their views while invalidating others. There are kids who grew up on these movies. How are they going to feel when they're told "Yeah, sorry love, Rey's no longer a thing." and I get it, there will be people saying "BUT MAH EU." Yeah the EU was books and such that your purchased to expand on your interest in Star Wars. These films made Star Wars fans...and they want to take it all away for their own satisfaction? No. That's just selfish.

On 7/1/2020 at 12:07 PM, SufficientlyAdvancedMoronics said:

Personally, I despise episode 8 because I think it's bad storytelling with shallow characters and a nonsense plot. However, I love the Mandolorian because it's a well written and compelling story (so far).

Reasonable and completely fair criticism.

On 7/1/2020 at 11:40 AM, SufficientlyAdvancedMoronics said:

As far as I'm concerned, the Mandolorian is the true Star Wars now.

Oooh...suddenly my toxicity senses are tingling. Let's not start a whole thing about 'True' Star Wars because all its going to do is lead to gatekeeping and people being all "Well, I like the TRUE Star Wars y'know, not your sequel drivel, see? Using the word true implies I am right and you are wrong and I am a better star wa.." ya get my point. Love Mando over the sequel trilogy all you want, just be careful using the phrase 'True Star Wars' around people which just makes you come off like an elitist douchbag.

12 minutes ago, Ebak said:

just be careful using the phrase 'True Star Wars' around people which just makes you come off like an elitist douchbag

A fair criticism, although it wasn't my intention. I meant it in the sense that I feel it carries the spirit of the first three films in a way that I find to be a closer representation of them. Didn't mean for it to sound divisive, as I was using the word 'true' to mean faithful, not factual.

3 hours ago, SufficientlyAdvancedMoronics said:

A fair criticism, although it wasn't my intention. I meant it in the sense that I feel it carries the spirit of the first three films in a way that I find to be a closer representation of them. Didn't mean for it to sound divisive.

Understandable! Language is complicated and we often say things without realising the meaning that can be inferred from different people.

Edit: For clarity my statement isn't sarcastic. Language is complicated due to different meanings and implication that are sometimes beyond what you intended. It was a misunderstanding, that was made clear and it was resolved.

51 minutes ago, Ebak said:

With all respect, while everyone's viewpoints are valid and important. I can't take the people who rag on the sequels seriously and that's not because they are hating but at the level they are taking it. They hated The Last Jedi so much that they decided to 'punish' Disney by not watching Solo which on its own was not a bad movie. That's dedication on an almost nuclear childish level.

We've progressed to a society where if something isn't the way you want it, then it MUST be changed, it must be CORRECTED to be catered for them specifically. I'm not a particular fan of The Force Awakens or the whiplash between The Last Jedi and The Rise of Skywalker caused by Disney backpeddling. However I'm not going on the internet saying Disney should be ashamed or fix it because I acknowledge that in a series with 11 films a part of it, I am not going to like everything.

I'm not saying you can't be critical, but the criticism stops at you.

I agree with some of this, but there's a bit more too it than just a matter of "didn't like Movie A, won't watch Movie B." There were many fans (I know a couple) who didn't like the movie, and then felt insulted by the response to people who didn't like the movie. A couple of them responded by boycotting Solo (something I disagree with and didn't do, though I didn't see it in theaters for circumstantial reasons), and it was not exactly about TLJ.

"People who rag on the sequels" is a pretty broad brush. (I'd cite your latest comment in relation to this, as there may be a disagreement about what "rag on" means)

I know many people who hated TLJ. Only one of them thought it should be stricken from Canon. The rest just hated it and some excised it from their headcanon (and some refused to shift from the EU in the first place). Others grudgingly accepted it, but choose to gloss over it.

And what exactly do you mean by "the criticism stops at you"?

To summarize, from what I have seen, heard, and experienced, the number of people who dislike the sequels and TLJ is larger than some people would like to admit. Simultaneously, the number of people who actually want the movies "erased" is way, way smaller.

And like I said in my very first comment on this thread, BAD IDEA. TLJ was divisive enough in the first place, trying to erase/replace the Sequel Trilogy is just a bad move. In my opinion, Disney should just let sleeping dogs lie. Bottom line: Change the future, not the past.

This thread has aged like a fine baby-diaper by now...

But... I would just add that, IMO, a core fanbase is the group of fans who will pay money to see or have basically whatever Star Wars product comes out, no matter what it is.

They love Star Wars for its brand. And do the movies, clothes, and toys for themselves and their kids, whatever.

Similar to how Coca-Cola's core consumer base are the ppl that would never buy Pepsi for their grill-out, or something maybe, right?

Granted, each niche of Star Wars product may have it's own individual core fanbase too; I imagine there's a discreet movie core, a comic core, videogame core, a Lego core, action figure core, whatever, that don't always have overlap - no significant majority buys EVERYTHING. But the eponymous "core fan base", here, I would envision meaning: someone who sees every movie, for sure, and buys some portion of a cross section of peripheral products. Habitually. Fair?

That's a core.

And I think objectively Disney did well enough with Force Awakens, as a product (in no small part by basically crafting something identical to the original product), to transition that core to a new generation.

Rey, Finn, BB-8, Poe, Kyle Ren. Great characters. You see them everywhere. Objectively one of the best performing in the series.

Clearly the core is still alive, they're still making billions per release.

Great. I am glad. I like the thing as a whole that I'm glad it lives on.

But where's the broad love of literally all the characters though? Where are even the ones that "should" be main-ish characters? Where's Snoke (Oh! Ye SUPREME leader and mysterious-reveal VILLAIN who barely featured more screen time than the beloved Biggs & Wedge!)? Where's Phasma (Notta Fett)? Nazi Weasley (aka not qualified to sniff Tarkin's jock strap)?! Or LOL Emperor? Or anyone that featured "prominently", in theory, in EP 8 or 9, besides the space-penguin Furbies? Where's the analogous Jabbas or Bobba Fett's or Landos, or friggin' Biggs & Wedges, that characterize the broad love for the whole product seen in the rest of it's oeuvre? They just don't exist in the same way.

Why?

Because no one cares about those characters, which obviously should be cared about based on comparable fan-reactions.

Why?

Because Disney crapped the bed, and presented a product where we just couldn't.

They gave us objectively crap movie-making and non-existent storytelling, that only a mindless Star Wars-zombie - the CORE of the core, those who will truly swallow whatever it is, no matter what it tastes like, and say, ' YOp, tHIs iS StAR wArs!! ' - could ignore the flaws of.

Absolutely they've done a good job with Disney-fying that Star Wars brand, broadly, in that they've diversified it's revenue streams into more stories and more products, etc.

The core is there, even growing. Cuz now Disney is the brand. It doesn't really have to do with Star Wars, anymore. The success.

They took a multi-billion dollar franchise and managed to keep it worth billions of dollars. But using the movies box office as perhaps the only objective guide we have, they have undeniably damaged the brand. There's no reason - intellectually - why the final movies shouldn't have been the biggest of all time.

The only real reason they weren't is because they just sucked. They're a literal fraction of what they could have been, based on Force Awakens.

They ended the most iconic IP of arguably all time/brand/storyline/Skywalker series with a really friggin' wet fart.

You like the movies? Great. It doesn't make me sad when other ppl are happy. Everyone deserves happiness.

But ultimately, for me, it's like America - it doesn't make you any more, and certainly not better, of a fan of the thing just because you accept the **** parts of it without any desire for it to be better.

It just means you're lazy, and probably a little ignorant.

2 hours ago, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

"People who rag on the sequels".... And what exactly do you mean by "the criticism stops at you" ?

That is indeed a very broad brush. So let me put it another way. If you don't like the movies. That is fine and dandy. The issue is I constantly see people push about agendas, how KK screwed up, how Star Wars needs to be saved yada yada. Constant negativity that does nothing to forward a conversation merely make a point of "I hate these films, I hate these films so much I will keep saying it as long as I live.", and to be clear, that's not the entirety of the community who disliked the film just a very vocal collective of people.

That's where it stops with you. It's fine to be critical, but it stops at yourself. Don't shame others for liking it or not liking it. Accept people have different opinions. You don't need to keep on shouting that you hate something and Star Wars is dead etc. it gets to a point where I feel like throwing my hands up and going "peace out" to any community.

I guess I am just tired of the negativity in the community, and I get it we can't live in in a fluffy cloud land but for **** sake can I go a day in my feed as part of Star Wars fan groups without constant posts about how 'Star Wars can be saved' or how 'Disney screwed up'?

1 hour ago, emsquared said:

You like the movies? Great. It doesn't make me sad when other ppl are happy.

it doesn't m ake you any more, and certainly not better, of a fan of the thing just because you accept the **** parts of it without any desire for it to be better.

It just means you're lazy, and probably a little ignorant.

It's not that I don't desire it to be better. It's the fact I don't let it consume me to a point you just basically called an entire group of fans lazy and ignorant. It's a film and it exists and it was made. Criticism can help guide and improve the future product, but it can't change the previous product.

Plus, the irony of saying that it doesn't make you better or less of a fan while also backhanding a portion of the fanbase for being 'lazy' and 'ignorant' due to acceptance whether because that be 'blind acceptance' or...I dunno, the actually liked it?

9 minutes ago, Ebak said:

I don't let it consume me

Yes, cuz you're totally not spending noticeable effort and amounts of time quoting and picking apart ppls posts who spoke counter-point to you.

👍

Hey, Pot, have you ever met Kettle?

1 hour ago, emsquared said:

They took a multi-billion dollar franchise and managed to keep it worth billions of dollars. But using the movies box office as perhaps the only objective guide we have, they have undeniably damaged the brand. There's no reason - intellectually - why the final movies shouldn't have been the biggest of all time.

I somewhat agree with a lot of what you're saying, even though I really like the first two sequels, but while this seems in contradiction to common sense, the final instalment of a trilogy is usually the least profitable one, regardless of the franchise, and part of the reason they stopped at three movies. The first film of a franchise is rarely surpassed by future instalments. Return Of The Jedi was the least profitable film of the original trilogy.