On 7/4/2020 at 4:43 PM, emeraldbeacon said:

Just to argue this topic to the point of absurdity: Given that the "rules" for rotating a ship simply indicate marking it, turning the ship, then removing the marker... is what you use as a marker important? Is it a move if you happen to use a template to mark your ship, but not a move, if you use the corner-marker that comes in the core set?

I think it's safe to say that a single, unified, coherent, consistent, and thorough definition of Rotating a Ship would be a welcome inclusion to the rules.

Haha i was thinking this too.

On 7/4/2020 at 3:27 AM, meffo said:

again, we're just discussing whether something needs clarification, though.

Oh i know. What i posted was pretty good stretch of the rules, It was arguing semantics mainly. I do agree it needs clerification though. or more over. It needs a section in the reference. Right now, Rotate only talks about turret arc rotation.

On 6/30/2020 at 7:33 AM, Squirl808 said:

So if a ship becomes Tractored and the opponent decides to barrel roll it onto debris I know that it will have to suffer the effects of that obstacle. The rules for tractor allow the player to choose to rotate their ship for the cost of a stress if the opponent moves it. But is that rotate a Move? Would the ship in question have to suffer the effects of the obstacle a second time?

Here is my thinking and I am not saying its perfect but i think we treat this just like a Koiogran turn and per the How to Play...

Both X-wings and TIE fighters can execute the Koiogran turn special maneuver. The maneuver is executed like a straight maneuver. Then, the ship is rotated 180º at the end of the template.

So, when you "K" turn onto a rock for example, you do not roll once for landing on it, then roll again when you rotate your ship. It is all part of the maneuver. I believe we use the same logic with the tractor.. you roll for being placed on the rock only, the rotate is just part of finishing the overall tractor effect.

1 hour ago, shaunmerritt said:

Here is my thinking and I am not saying its perfect but i think we treat this just like a Koiogran turn and per the How to Play...

Both X-wings and TIE fighters can execute the Koiogran turn special maneuver. The maneuver is executed like a straight maneuver. Then, the ship is rotated 180º at the end of the template.

So, when you "K" turn onto a rock for example, you do not roll once for landing on it, then roll again when you rotate your ship. It is all part of the maneuver. I believe we use the same logic with the tractor.. you roll for being placed on the rock only, the rotate is just part of finishing the overall tractor effect.

For tractor effects, this solution makes a lot of sense to me. It sadly doesn't answer what happens in the other rotation situations, but a partial solution is better than none.

9 hours ago, shaunmerritt said:

Here is my thinking and I am not saying its perfect but i think we treat this just like a Koiogran turn and per the How to Play...

Both X-wings and TIE fighters can execute the Koiogran turn special maneuver. The maneuver is executed like a straight maneuver. Then, the ship is rotated 180º at the end of the template.

So, when you "K" turn onto a rock for example, you do not roll once for landing on it, then roll again when you rotate your ship. It is all part of the maneuver. I believe we use the same logic with the tractor.. you roll for being placed on the rock only, the rotate is just part of finishing the overall tractor effect.

Yeah, except the turn around is part of the maneuver itself. And you only check for overlap once the maneuver is completed (fully or partially), which is why if you bump a ship before you overlap a rock, you never actually overlap the rock, even if the template or the final position did, because the ship overlap prevented it. So for a K-turn, overlap isn't checked until the ship is in its final position, turned around. This isn't quite the same as a tractor rotation given the tractor movement, and the optional rotation by the other player are separate triggers.