Even with just Brawn 5 and no skill against 5 purple, that freak of nature manages to hit point blank with a grenade ~50% of the time. Most of the time with threat but still, roughly every second throw hits. Throwing in 2 Setbacks for whatever and upgrading it once is easily offset by aiming (+1 boost) and 2-3 skill ranks as this will achieve ~50% again - that's ridiculous.

I can accept that this would sound fun, but for me, that is something a destiny point should be required and not made something basic you can do every turn every combat.

I think destiny points are made for those situations where you try something ridiculous but fun.

3 hours ago, Malashim said:

Even with just Brawn 5 and no skill against 5 purple, that freak of nature manages to hit point blank with a grenade ~50% of the time. Most of the time with threat but still, roughly every second throw hits. Throwing in 2 Setbacks for whatever and upgrading it once is easily offset by aiming (+1 boost) and 2-3 skill ranks as this will achieve ~50% again - that's ridiculous.

I can accept that this would sound fun, but for me, that is something a destiny point should be required and not made something basic you can do every turn every combat.

I think destiny points are made for those situations where you try something ridiculous but fun.

There ya go. Your almost there

Destint point flip would be acceptable. As per my rules though, if the Brawn 5 guy throws he's using Athletics, which means as it's not a combat skill he cant benefit from aiming and successes don't add damage. So, there's that.

And I'd probably disallow an agility user to try with Ranged Light. Or perhaps the check would be even harder. The point is to make it a difficult check. If its somewhere around 50% then it needs to be more difficult.

What percentage you would like it to be?

On 6/25/2020 at 2:42 PM, Mark Caliber said:

Yes. I'm at 10 or 11 cannon changes now.

I disagree. Extreme Range is, I shouldn't be able to hit this but let me try anyway . . . That also lets me convert Extreme Range into a six purple contested roll while permitting a Very Long range attempt at 4 purple (instead of 5 purple).

You may also remember that I have some incredibly capable PC's running around and a 4 purple shot isn't that much of a challenge.

First, I'm actually modelling the grenade rules from GURPS, which I mentioned at the table this week, and based on player feedback they're willing to give it a go. It also models real life better.

Shrapnel damage is as I've already described and consistent with existing damage rules. Roll a bunch of green dice and all of the uncancelled successes yield 1 point of damage (less soak after the fact of course).

So if you happen to be in the same square as a grenade, you'll take a lot of concussive damage but if you're further away, no worries. However IRL the real problem with frag grenades has always been the shrapnel.

And while I've been 'content' with the grenade rules according to the RAW, the players all expressed sufficient displeasure and requested that grenades have a wider AOE.

It's not a player complaint that I find unreasonable.

The problem with this is that frag grenades (F&D page 170) don’t dish out Concussive damage to begin with, not by RAW. They don’t have the Concussive quality. They only have the Blast quality which, in and of itself, covers the area of damage that the shrapnel fills. So the “shrapnel” effect you’re looking for is already covered by the Blast quality.

34 minutes ago, Tramp Graphics said:

The problem with this is that frag grenades (F&D page 170) don’t dish out Concussive damage to begin with, not by RAW. They don’t have the Concussive quality. They only have the Blast quality which, in and of itself, covers the area of damage that the shrapnel fills. So the “shrapnel” effect you’re looking for is already covered by the Blast quality.

Concussive in this case simply means the explosion's shock-waves. All explosions have a concussive quality, even if they don't possess the "Concussive" weapon quality.

8 minutes ago, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

Concussive in this case simply means the explosion's shock-waves. All explosions have a concussive quality, even if they don't possess the "Concussive" weapon quality.

Yes, I know that. That’s not the point, however, because it doesn’t factor into the damage to the target. Actual “concussion damage” in the game is covered exclusively by the Concussive quality, which Frag grenades don’t get. Thus the Blast quality covers the area effect of the shrapnel.