I just want to double check my thinking. The Ebb/Flow force power says "Ebb: When the Force user makes a skill check, you may roll Ebb power check as part of a roll. The user may spend a force to suffer 1 Strain, then inflict 1 strain on all other engaged characters." Same for flow except for healing strain on your self.

What I am wondering, is if I can use Ebb/Flow on any skill check I like (coercion, leadership, stealth, ect.), or is it only use in combat? Also that force roll cannot be use for a success or an advantage since you are using it for the force power, correct? I'm looking for more clarification.

1) While Ebb/Flow doesn't have to be used in structured play, that is probably where you're going to see the most bang for your buck. And outside of structured play, the GM will have to determine how long the power takes to use, and perhaps the repercussions of using the Force to inflict strain on people who aren't fighting you 🙂

2) The power or talent that you use will dictate what the Force pips can be used for. And yeah, you can't double up on your Force dice, so (for example) you can't utilize a talent that lets you roll your Force rating for possible extra advantage/successes WHILE using a combined skill/power check. You have to choose one or the other before you pick up your Force dice to add to the dice pool.

Or you could specify that you are splitting your Force dice between the two different pools (between the Ebb/Flow power and the other use), and roll them separately.

9 hours ago, Bellona said:

Or you could specify that you are splitting your Force dice between the two different pools (between the Ebb/Flow power and the other use), and roll them separately.

Yes, that’s a balanced homebrew idea. To me it seems like it gets away from the single dice pool feel of the game, so I would advise against it. It’s not mechanically broken, but it could lead to bloat in terms of how long it takes to resolve checks. YMMV.

21 hours ago, 97Starvipper said:

I just want to double check my thinking. The Ebb/Flow force power says "Ebb: When the Force user makes a skill check, you may roll Ebb power check as part of a roll. The user may spend a force to suffer 1 Strain, then inflict 1 strain on all other engaged characters." Same for flow except for healing strain on your self.

What I am wondering, is if I can use Ebb/Flow on any skill check I like (coercion, leadership, stealth, ect.), or is it only use in combat? Also that force roll cannot be use for a success or an advantage since you are using it for the force power, correct? I'm looking for more clarification.

So with the power, you can use it in tandem with any skill check you make, with the caveat that you're not already using another Force power (since unless specified otherwise, activating a Force power is an action, and even outside of structured play most GMs won't let you activate multiple Force powers on the same roll of the Force dice).

With regards to the Ebb/Flow Control upgrades that let you add success/failure/advantage/threat to a check result, you can spend your Force points to trigger those in tandem with the base power, so long as you have enough Force points. So for instance, if you've got a PC with Ebb/Flow and both of those Control Upgrades (add adv/threat and add suc/fail) and you generate 3 Force points while using Ebb, you could split them by spending 1 FP to suffer and inflict 1 strain, spend 1 FP to inflict an automatic threat, and then spend the final FP to inflict an automatic success. If the PC had the relevant Strength upgrades, they could opt to activate one (or more) of those instead.

What you couldn't do is use Ebb/Flow when you're making a Discipline vs. Discipline check as part of using Influence's Control upgrade to affect emotions/beliefs, since to use that upgrade you're already making an Influence power check, just one that happens to include an opposed skill check as part of activating that Force power.

15 hours ago, awayputurwpn said:

Yes, that’s a balanced homebrew idea. To me it seems like it gets away from the single dice pool feel of the game, so I would advise against it. It’s not mechanically broken, but it could lead to bloat in terms of how long it takes to resolve checks. YMMV.

There was a developer-answered question about that.

@Bellona do you have a link? I couldn't find anything that suggests holding back some Force dice, and then rolling them separately from your main dice pool.

However, I did find something that's interesting.

That is a completely different answer than the one I got, some years ago now.

Here's the answer I got back in 2017.

Quote

If you have a Force die committed to something else that doesn’t affect the action you are currently performing, that is fine. You can still add one Force die to make the combined Ebb/Flow check. However, you can’t perform a combined Force power check combined with another combined Force power check. So you can’t use Ebb/Flow with Hawk Bat Swoop, for example, because they’re both combined Force power checks.

Hope this helps!

Sam Stewart
RPG Manager
Fantasy Flight Games

So, *shrug*...? Am I seeing a complete contradiction here, or more of a nuanced difference?

6 hours ago, awayputurwpn said:

@Bellona do you have a link? I couldn't find anything that suggests holding back some Force dice, and then rolling them separately from your main dice pool.

However, I did find something that's interesting.

That is a completely different answer than the one I got, some years ago now.

Here's the answer I got back in 2017.

So, *shrug*...? Am I seeing a complete contradiction here, or more of a nuanced difference?

I was thinking of the answer given to EliasWindrider.

18 hours ago, awayputurwpn said:

So, *shrug*...? Am I seeing a complete contradiction here

Wouldn't be the first time it happened, especially if the responses came from different people.

Prime example, what did and didn't stack regarding calculating defense. Sam Stewart gave one answer, then a couple years later Max Brooks gave a very different answer that pretty much flew in the face of not only Sam's answer but what the books themselves said, only for the FAQ to get an update that solidified the matter while capping defense to keep the bonus stacking from getting too out of hand.

16 hours ago, Bellona said:

I was thinking of the answer given to EliasWindrider.

Yeah, the only one I found that was close to what we were talking about was the post I quoted above. God bless Keith and his prolific questioning.

If you find it @Bellona I would be interested to see it!

3 hours ago, Donovan Morningfire said:

Wouldn't be the first time it happened, especially if the responses came from different people.

Prime example, what did and didn't stack regarding calculating defense. Sam Stewart gave one answer, then a couple years later Max Brooks gave a very different answer that pretty much flew in the face of not only Sam's answer but what the books themselves said, only for the FAQ to get an update that solidified the matter while capping defense to keep the bonus stacking from getting too out of hand.

They were both from Sam Stewart 😂 although they were about 2 years apart. But yeah, things change and opinions can evolve.