The rise of skywalker was the best star wars movie.. if you cut out everything before the fight where Rey stabs Kylo (and that pretty much includes ignoring most of ep. 7 and 8 as well). Everything after that scene is essentially the most epic wedding ever, as proven by the fact that Rey considers herself to be part of the skywalker family at the end, and Ben has literally given her his soul. This is (probably) why Ben can't appear to her as a force ghost at the end, because his soul is still attached to hers. (Although she really should have claimed the Solo name instead of the Skywalker name.. then again, Han wasn't actually born with the Solo name so..)

The biggest problem with ep.9 is that there's really no reason for anyone outside of the Palpatine and Skywalker families to be in the movie. While the other scenes may be "funny" or "cool" the main story is subtle enough and hard enough to understand on it's own, that all of the "filler" scenes draw too much attention away from the main story.

I also would have liked to see Grand Admiral Sloane and other First Order "castaways" show up to fight palpatine at the end.

I was always of the opinion that lightsabers were usable by non-sensitves and untrained as well. But only trained sensitive could bring out it's full potential. And on top of that average Joe's wouldn't have even bothered too use a sword anyway since it is a world where blasters exist, so it never needed pointed out.

Side note, In a way I thought season 3 of Sword Art Online managed to actually convey essentially the same thing, as the main hero was the only one with enough 'instincts' and 'training/skill' to actually work a blade in a gun world... Despite the fact that anyone could use swords and buy them at stores, he was the only one that could do so successfully.

But I never got the argument that Yoda 'shouldn't' have used a sabre, or by extension Leia as it's been mentioned. But only because the sabre is so reminiscent of samurai tradition and the katana. In it's later life the katana was a badge of office and mark of rank far more than it was for combat. Because you have to remember that the samurai caste moved towards diplomatic functions in the later stages of their time. They never used it except for a workout on occasion, but they still had one, and they carried it anyway. I imagine it was the same for the Jedi. Yoda still fills that role: diplomat and teacher first, also had a sword.

Yes you had your "guardian/sentinel/consular" differences in an order of warrior monks who wield magic, and I dig that. But they do have uniform items. And part of your journey to become Jedi is building a sabre, so of course they have one. But wielding it in battle from time to time doesn't mean it's what they focus on though so for me at least it doesn't detract at all from their character. Like, it's only a small part of them. I don't really understand how it even could be a detractor? Just me though.

One good thing to 7, maybe the only good fight scene in the whole sequel mess, was Finn with sabre versus trooper with stun tunfa. That's the only one I like to revisit.

2 hours ago, ForceSensitive said:

But I never got the argument that Yoda 'shouldn't' have used a sabre, or by extension Leia as it's been mentioned. But only because the sabre is so reminiscent of samurai tradition

I think you're underselling the importance of the lightsaber. It isn't simply a question of samurai tradition as a badge of office. There is a fairly universal concept for achieving peace in it. The Romans put it as Si vis pacem, para bellum . A Jedi values peace and if you want peace you don't get to be weak. In the old "Kung Fu" TV show Master Po or Master Kan tells Caine this (where I first heard heard the idea as a boy) when he is asking why he's being taught to fight when they believe in peace. The idea of it being better to be a warrior in a garden than a gardener in a war.

The Jedi are a not at all subtle analog to the Knights of The Round Table and their "Might for right." If you are going to be a guardian of peace and justice i.e. right you need to have might. The lightsaber isn't simply a badge of office it is a means of executing his office. It is a Jedi's preparation for war as a Jedi values peace.

3 hours ago, ForceSensitive said:

But I never got the argument that Yoda 'shouldn't' have used a sabre, or by extension Leia as it's been mentioned.

Great warrior? Wars not make one great.

I know Yoda was mostly trying to be frustrating, to test Luke's patience (likewise, Yoda-speak was mostly an act, not how he talked, but like...). However, I just find it aesthetically appealing. I enjoy the thought that there's a common and different way to interact with the force than being a lightsaber-swinging space sheriff. To me, that's how Yoda seemed characterized in the OT, so having him fighting like the rest really felt out-of-character to me.

Also, I think they way they animated Yoda fighting just looked really stupid . Don't get me wrong, I love Sonic the Hedgehog. But like... really?

1 hour ago, theBitterFig said:

Great warrior? Wars not make one great.

I know Yoda was mostly trying to be frustrating, to test Luke's patience (likewise, Yoda-speak was mostly an act, not how he talked, but like...). However, I just find it aesthetically appealing. I enjoy the thought that there's a common and different way to interact with the force than being a lightsaber-swinging space sheriff. To me, that's how Yoda seemed characterized in the OT, so having him fighting like the rest really felt out-of-character to me.

Also, I think they way they animated Yoda fighting just looked really stupid . Don't get me wrong, I love Sonic the Hedgehog. But like... really?

That sounds like a failure of your imagination. Perhaps even worse a failure of your understanding of Yoda's lessons. First off Yoda trained Jedi for 800 years. Logic suggests he was simply a Jedi before that. Why would Yoda only know one way to interact with The Force? Did he start as the wizened old master? Being the lightsaber-swinging space sheriff comes first doesn't it? Being able to fight doesn't mean having to fight is a great thing. Wars don't make one great because having to go to war is a failure.

Yoda asks him why he wants to be a Jedi. He wants to know if he's seeking peace and to help others and might for right or if he is seeking power. Yoda wants to know if Luke is looking for might to make his version of right like Luke's father did. Fear is the path to the Dark Side. Is Luke seeking to learn the ways of The Force from fear and anger or from courage to do right? Luke thinking Yoda is a great warrior suggests a fundamental misunderstanding of what a Jedi does, a fundamental misunderstanding of what a Jedi is, a fundamental misunderstanding of what it is he is seeking in learning the ways of The Force, and a fundamental misunderstanding of the path he is seeking to embark on.

2 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

I think they way they animated Yoda fighting just looked really stupid . Don't get me wrong, I love Sonic the Hedgehog. But like... really?

This. ^

57 minutes ago, Frimmel said:

That sounds like a failure of your imagination.

Get lost, jerk.

I didn't say "this is what is right" I said "this is what I like best." If I prefer coffee to tea, that's not a failure of imagination. It's a preference, I explained why I liked it, nothing more.

If you want to say, "I like Yoda as a former warrior, since I think that shows growth," great! I've got no problem with that. Folks can like different things.

But you've decided to be a jerk about the whole thing.

15 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

Get lost, jerk.

I didn't say "this is what is right" I said "this is what I like best." If I prefer coffee to tea, that's not a failure of imagination. It's a preference, I explained why I liked it, nothing more.

If you want to say, "I like Yoda as a former warrior, since I think that shows growth," great! I've got no problem with that. Folks can like different things.

But you've decided to be a jerk about the whole thing.

You described fighting/having the lightsaber as being out of character for Yoda.

2 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

that's how Yoda seemed characterized in the OT, so having him fighting like the rest really felt out-of-character to me.

That sounds like a point where we might have a discussion about what is in or out of character. No rudeness intended.

46 minutes ago, Frimmel said:

You described fighting/having the lightsaber as being out of character for Yoda.

That sounds like a point where we might have a discussion about what is in or out of character. No rudeness intended.

I used "to me" twice in that sentence. edit: and the verb was "felt"

*eyeroll*

Alright guys, as the local black sheep and pariah of these forums, who is hated and reviled by all, I say we take a breath. You both have been great in this thread and we can bring it back together. Since the mods are gone, I know we're a lawless bunch, but let's take a minute to kinda hang out, cheers with some blue milk a bit. I'll even not post again till tomorrow about this Yoda character discussion. I would like to keep it going, but maybe after a bit of a recess eh? Friends? Blue milk cheers?

15 hours ago, ForceSensitive said:

Alright guys, as the local black sheep and pariah of these forums, who is hated and reviled by all, I say we take a breath. You both have been great in this thread and we can bring it back together. Since the mods are gone, I know we're a lawless bunch, but let's take a minute to kinda hang out, cheers with some blue milk a bit. I'll even not post again till tomorrow about this Yoda character discussion. I would like to keep it going, but maybe after a bit of a recess eh? Friends? Blue milk cheers?

What has occurred here that might require the intervention of a moderator? A forum member has demonstrated the accuracy of their forum handle and though I was wronged I consider the matter settled with neither animosity nor hard feelings remaining. I certainly do not think siccing a moderator on the poster in question is called for over my hurt feelings.

I also think you are overselling your status as an object of hatred and revile. Get over yourself. 😁

In on a bit of a long term errand. Will get back to this in more depth eventually.

But as it's been on my mind for the past 10 hours of driving. I really don't think the "might makes right" applies to the Jedi. I could see some tangential connection, sure. But for that much I could see a tangential connection to the Knights Templar as well. With their duties being mostly to guard pilgrimage routes and set up patrols and temples and fortresses towards that goal before ultimately over inflating themselves and collapsing.

If I were to give a more personally appt motto to the Jedi from real world context (ignoring a bit of their history to do so) I'd myself use "if you want peace, prepare for war". Today I had Google give me a bit of a lecture on it's origin and I think it suits a bit better. They're peacekeepers, diplomats, bit also ready too intervene militantly if not necessarily militarily. (Never thought I'd make that as a distinction.)

That's what I really wanted to get off my chest for now. I personally never admitted the phrase Might makes Right because it's sick a slippery slope to... Well... Current events if I'm being honest.

7 hours ago, ForceSensitive said:

In on a bit of a long term errand. Will get back to this in more depth eventually.

But as it's been on my mind for the past 10 hours of driving. I really don't think the "might makes right" applies to the Jedi. I could see some tangential connection, sure. But for that much I could see a tangential connection to the Knights Templar as well. With their duties being mostly to guard pilgrimage routes and set up patrols and temples and fortresses towards that goal before ultimately over inflating themselves and collapsing.

If I were to give a more personally appt motto to the Jedi from real world context (ignoring a bit of their history to do so) I'd myself use "if you want peace, prepare for war". Today I had Google give me a bit of a lecture on it's origin and I think it suits a bit better. They're peacekeepers, diplomats, bit also ready too intervene militantly if not necessarily militarily. (Never thought I'd make that as a distinction.)

That's what I really wanted to get off my chest for now. I personally never admitted the phrase Might makes Right because it's sick a slippery slope to... Well... Current events if I'm being honest.

Not Might makes right for the Jedi. That is the Sith. King Arthur and his knights (at least in the version from White) and by analogy Jedi are might for Right. It is a subtle but vitally important distinction.

The Jedi use their strength in the Force to do the right thing, to serve an ideal of peace and justice. The Sith use their strength in the Force to inflict their will, to create their version of right, to enact their tyranny.

This is the theme of "Once and Future King." It is ruling based on ideals of justice and law and not simply who is strongest . The Jedi Council sit in their own version of a round table.

You can see this contrast in the codes that have come about. The Jedi code is all about peace and knowledge and setting aside passion. The Sith code informs that passion is power. Uncle Ben taught us this too, "With great power comes great responsibility."

Current events are all about emotion and passion. We have a great big childish tantrum being thrown. The trouble of course with some childish tantrums is the child isn't necessarily wrong. The child has might in the moment and this can make right and thus the statue gets torn down. I think those who make a historical plea are largely asking to handle the removal with reason and from a sense of doing so from right in a right way. A way that can lead to peace and harmony and not simply more passion.

So much these days is emotion first as emotion is what persuades people to act.

In regards to lightsabers and Jedi.. remember that there also exists within the jedi order a feeling that force-wielders shouldn't rely on the force alone. While this is mostly a tenet of the sentinels, guardians and consulars are probably familiar with the idea as well.. and why not? There are some valid points. After all, there are some beings that the force can't be used against, and other beings against which using the force can simply be dangerous. Using the force requires concentration that one might simply not be able to muster at any given time, especially in combat. So If Yoda is fighting a powerful force-user like Dooku or Palpatine, Yoda might choose to use a lightsaber as his primary weapon, so that he can keep himself alert and ready to respond to his opponent's attacks rather than trying to shape the force to his own will.

In regards to Yoda, he was always meant to be a great warrior. Remember that Yoda on Dagobah is meant to be after the Jedi order has basically lost the clone wars. He's beaten and all of his friends are dead. Moreover, he's at least partially responsible for the Galaxy having been taken over by the dark-side.. I think it makes perfect sense that the Yoda we see on Dagobah might be a little more mellow and pensive than the Yoda who we essentially see leading the Jedi at the height of their power. The fact is Obi-wan is very different in the OT compared to the prequals as well and those differences just make sense. So I think the lightsaber fighting is perfectly in character for Young(er) Yoda.

Also.. the fight kind of had to happen because Qui-gon and Phantom Menace Obi-wan weren't really good examples of Ataru, (In fact, using Ataru was meant to be Qui-gon's downfall) so we needed to see what an Ataru master actually looked like.