I think that in the case you highlighted where there just isn't a location with matching or lower threat to discard, you *can't* resolve the last line anyways. I could see ruling that you have to do it if there is a valid target, though this makes this very sideboardy card far more sideboardier. Would this have any rivals in this cycle or the previous one for the most useless player card released?

It’s probably the weakest card we’ve seen recently... but i kind of like that. Oddball underpowered cards do a lot more for my deckbuilding drive than obvious power cards like the Book here.

So what quests would this be good for, if your goal is actual location dismissal and you're not just trying to keep your combat deck busy while avoiding location lock from 3-4 player play?

Deadman's Dike benefits from shuffling the discard back due to Cursed Dead, but their 1 threat is unlikely to dismiss any location. But it shares the encounter deck with Dread Lord, whose forced engaged effect puts the topmost undead in play with you. It's 3 threat so it has excellent chance of discarding a location -- but there are less copies of it than there are of Cursed Dead.

Those two are in three quests, and the best of the lot for the effect is Dread Realm, I think. The final quest stage is beaten by getting rid of locations, which is what this does. You advance from stage two into stage three by defeating Daechnar, so the stage two/three transition should happen *before* you can trigger this card, and it helpfully ensures that there's a location in staging. Plus Alter of Midwinter will helpfully give you an easy enemy to kill (reanimated dead) to try to take out another location popping up. But what are the discard odds?

Enemies:

2x Dread Lord (3 threat)

5x Cursed Dead (1 threat)

3x Dwimmerlake (4 threat)

3x Witch of Angmar (3 threat)

2x Wraith of Carn Dum (2 threat)

So if no enemies were in play when the card was played, you'd get 100% on 1-threat, 2/3 on 2-threat, 8/15 on 3-threat, and 1/5 on 4-threat. Worth a gamble, since due to quest setup any enemy is likely better than any location at that point in the quest. Unholy crypt is a particularly good target, since it's 1 threat if you've cleaned up the reanimated dead, and with 7 progress is one of the toughest locations to clear.

9 minutes ago, GrandSpleen said:

It’s probably the weakest card we’ve seen recently... but i kind of like that. Oddball underpowered cards do a lot more for my deckbuilding drive than obvious power cards like the Book here.

I play Dori fellowships, so I have a soft spot for deemed-weak cards with situational strengths. What I don't like is player cards that are actively harmful, which this would certainly be if you always had to add the enemy.

Discarding the starting location (Accursed Battlefield) might be handy in Carn Dum, though the enemy-kill requirement prevents you from discarding it before having to Battle quest on turn one. With 2 threat the Carn Dum Garrisons and Orc Grunts won't trigger it, though you start with N Garrisons in play, somewhat improving your odds. Against the 4-7 1 threat enemies in the deck there are 10 2+ threat in the deck, Angmar Orc would be the best hit since it nerfs the When Revealed effect. Carn Dum has no obnoxious 1-threat locations.

6 minutes ago, dalestephenson said:

What I don't like is player cards that are actively harmful, which this would certainly be if you always had to add the enemy.

I guess in a Tactics deck I might prefer a Beorning Guardian (or even better Meneldor) as a way to clear locations. Though I guess the small advantage of Bilbo's Plan is that it *discards* the location which can be better than exploring it (especially in later quests where it's more easy to find location with negative "when explored" effects.

10 minutes ago, dalestephenson said:

So what quests would this be good for, if your goal is actual location dismissal and you're not just trying to keep your combat deck busy while avoiding location lock from 3-4 player play?

I wonder if there is some good use for this card (Treasures aside) in the Hobbit saga.

Fate of Numenor might be a good target for this card. The mechanics replace the Lost Island in staging when they become active locations -- but this *discards* the location, permanently reducing the number of Lost Islands in staging. At 2 threat, the Lost Island will hit on anything but the two 1-threat surgers.

Assault on Osgiliath could also be good since all the locations have only 1-2 threat.

It'd be downright great against Assault on Osgiliath if it worked on unique locations too.

There's some decent targets in Emyn Muil.

I would say to perfect Bilbo's plan, I would have the following text:

"After an enemy is destroyed, shuffled the encounter discard pile into the encounter deck and discard cards until you discard an enemy whose threat is equal to or higher than a non-unique location in the staging area. Discard that location and add that enemy to the staging area."

I think everyone would love that interpretation.

3 hours ago, Kjeld said:

There are a couple of situations described in MDuckworth83's review of The End Comes on RingsDB that apply to Bilbo's Plan (which gets around the main problem with The End Comes -- it's stupid Dwarf-leaves-play restriction):

Again the MAIN problem with the end comes is not a dwarf leaving play. Its the effect that is so weak

1 hour ago, MikeGracey said:

Again the MAIN problem with the end comes is not a dwarf leaving play. Its the effect that is so weak

about that point in particular. Nobody here is saying the effect is strong, but some of us are definitely saying that it would be a very good sideboard card *if* if wasn’t relying on a dwarf leaving play.

7 minutes ago, GrandSpleen said:

about that point in particular. Nobody here is saying the effect is strong, but some of us are definitely saying that it would be a very good sideboard card *if* if wasn’t relying on a dwarf leaving play.

But a dwarf leaving play is not an insurmountable obstacle. Im just very surprised to hear that the end comes without the dwarf restriction is even considered playable. It might dilute the encounter deck but not necessarily in your favour. Its just a bad card even without the dwarf leaving play.

Sideboard, situational. To be used when the situation is correct. I think what we disagree on is the likelihood of a “correct” situation ever coming up in a game.

Just different play styles I guess

1 hour ago, GrandSpleen said:

Sideboard, situational. To be used when the situation is correct. I think what we disagree on is the likelihood of a “correct” situation ever coming up in a game.

Just different play styles I guess

Yeah I guess different play styles would affect our opinion of a card. I would prob never use it as sideboard card, but while I disagree on its usefulness that is only my opinion of course.

I actually use my The End Comes as a proxy for The Shirefolk 😀 .

As sideboardy as Bilbo's Plan is, the excitement of new player cards drove away from my mind what it is *not* -- a non-restricted attachment that allows taking Eagles out of play for a benefit. IOW's Gwaihir's ability to ready *at all* is at the mercy of the existing card pool. In that light, I seriously question the decision not to give Gwaihir a threat discount for his card, and I think I prefer MotK-Gwaihir at 10 threat.

Ally Gwaihir is superior because he has the crown

2 hours ago, dalestephenson said:

As sideboardy as Bilbo's Plan is, the excitement of new player cards drove away from my mind what it is *not* -- a non-restricted attachment that allows taking Eagles out of play for a benefit. IOW's Gwaihir's ability to ready *at all* is at the mercy of the existing card pool. In that light, I seriously question the decision not to give Gwaihir a threat discount for his card, and I think I prefer MotK-Gwaihir at 10 threat.

I played with Gwaihir a bit. He really would have benefited from the crown that let him either pay for eagles, pay for their abilities or readied him in refresh. As it is, you need both leadership and spirit help in tactics heavy deck (you basically need steward, this deck is uber costly and you need courage for the late game when you're out of eagles). He's a hero where you AND your team need to build around him. He's on the weaker side without it. PS: One of his best activators is elf-stone in lore, so another sphere needed.

I really like the look of the Gwaihir hero and cant wait to try him myself. His downside is big, but a deck packed full of eagles should be able to get him readied a lot.

You could have a total of 22 eales in your deck.

3 vassal

3 guardian

3 emissary

3 wilyador

3 EOMM

3 Descendants

3 Meneldors

1 Landroval.

Now with card draw (eagles are coming) and some return events like meneldors flight and flight of the eagles (3 more eagle allies!) it seems like there are lots of options.

Also I like that any sphere can combine nicely with him, or you can just go mono sphere

I paired him with Hirgon and Radagast for a really solid mid-game deck. It absolutely has an expiration date when you begin to run out of eagles.

13 minutes ago, player3351457 said:

I paired him with Hirgon and Radagast for a really solid mid-game deck. It absolutely has an expiration date when you begin to run out of eagles.

How many rounds did your game last?

There are a lot of Eagles-leaves-play options, and it's nice to give an incentive to use cards like Meneldor's Flight and Born Aloft. The pack did come with two more Eagles to leave play and ready Gwaihir (or more importantly, buff Misty). However, Gwaihir's readying via Eagle removal is limited to once per phase, meaning he would have been fairly priced for threat *without the readying restriction*. He's overcosted, and that's no small thing in such an expensive hero.

26 minutes ago, dalestephenson said:

There are a lot of Eagles-leaves-play options, and it's nice to give an incentive to use cards like Meneldor's Flight and Born Aloft. The pack did come with two more Eagles to leave play and ready Gwaihir (or more importantly, buff Misty). However, Gwaihir's readying via Eagle removal is limited to once per phase, meaning he would have been fairly priced for threat *without the readying restriction*. He's overcosted, and that's no small thing in such an expensive hero.

Well I dont think his once per phase restriction is a big limit at all. You cant afford to have 3 eagle allies leaving play (and readying Gwaihir 3 times) in one phase or you would run out of allies in a real hurry! \

I can definitely see times where you will want him ready but he's not... And that's gonna hurt. But he is not over costed. His stats added together equal 13 and that dictates his threat cost (aside from a few heros who break that mold). He has a drawback, but he has a benefit too.

And lets not forget that he starts with ranged and sentinel.

37 minutes ago, MikeGracey said:

How many rounds did your game last?

Thats a good question. I ran it through Aprils solo league. I would guess 10 rounds is right around the dying point. It struggles early with resources but once you get a few eagle related carda you can get the ball really rolling. Yes, Hirgon and Radagast nonbo with each other but it actually allows multiple avenues of readying Gwahir, which is helpful

Unless we get them both in pack 6, it also appears that we will not be getting leadership and spirit guarded cards. A leadership guarded enemy card that focuses on defense could have really helped out Dunedain. We also still don't have any more Rohan cards as Caleb said she would. Pack 6 will have to have it.