Sportsball! Woo-hoo!

A multimillion dollar sports franchise headquartered near my geographic location defeated another multimillion dollar sports franchise headquartered further from my geographic location!

Go team!

😜

/endSnark

9 minutes ago, Nytwyng said:

Sportsball! Woo-hoo!

A multimillion dollar sports franchise headquartered near my geographic location defeated another multimillion dollar sports franchise headquartered further from my geographic location!

Go team!

😜

/endSnark

What....is...this???? goes baqck to watching star wars...

5 hours ago, Ebak said:

I'm just going to weigh in here.

Restricting Jedi in the 'dark times' does sorely limit the stories you can tell and the characters you can meet plus it creates a big statistical anomaly. According to Marvel Comics, which are canon despite some of their problems (and your convenient desire to discard them as reference due to those problems), they state that at least 25+ Jedi survived the purge.

I recall in a Q&A video talking about the 'plethora of survivors' of Order 66, Star Wars Explained cited that even if only 1% of Jedi survived, we're still talking hundreds to a thousand Jedi. Essentially the question called into question the effectiveness of Order 66 and the Clones and I recall the answer being Paraphrased: We've only seen a handful, and to think that that amount is below even 1% shows that the Clones and Order 66 was highly effective. The Jedi Order is a large organization and its members of Knights and Masters aren't just generals. Eno Cordova, from Fallen Order (which I will bring up) was a scholar and what little we do know of him is scarce. However, he wasn't a general leading an army, he was a Jedi Master, but also a scholar who researched ancient races and travelled the galaxy. There will be Jedi who were not in a convenient place where they could be shot by Clone Troopers.

There were survivors, and the very nature of that lead to the Inquisition being formed in order to hunt down and either turn Jedi or eliminate them.

As for impact upon the galaxy. It depends on the individual and their involvement. Quinlan Vos settled down. Kanan effectively gave up being a Jedi and simply laid low while taking any chance he could to 'stick it to the Empire' it wasn't until a potential padawan fell into his lap that he decided he could make a small difference in the galaxy. With the multitude of Rebel Cells in the galaxy, and the very nature of each cell itself being secretive to not expose each other its quite possible that news of Ezra or Kanan never reached Luke...or maybe it did and it inspired him, we don't know. All we know is this: they existed, and they did those things. Anything beyond that is speculation.

Cal Kestis isn't even involved in the Rebellion in Fallen Order and his story is something that I never thought I wanted to see, a Jedi suffering from effectively PTSD and feeling so guilty at his failure to protect his master that the shock to his system damaged his connection to the force. Yes it was done that way for gameplay purposes, I am aware of that but it also resulted in a strong storyline for me that made me care about Cal and he never even got close to getting involved with events. The closest he came was helping Saw Gerrera because it was a mutually beneficial arrangement between the two.

In terms of removing how special Luke and Leia is to the equation and why other Jedi didn't think to take him on; I think we're forgetting the Vader connection. His own children, who he believed dead and the last thing he has of his dead wife whom he adored and idolised to a fault was the only force that could hope to swing him back. If anything Rebels shows how strong that connection is; his two best friends Obi Wan and Ahsoka couldn't bring him back. Ahsoka could barely hold off Vader and that's the trick; taking on the Emperor means taking on the Inquisitors and Vader as well. I imagine the Emperor has some hefty security about his person and its not so simple as to march up to him and swing a lightsaber at him.

If anything Obi Wan and Yoda were calculating in their approach, although completely accidental as well. Their hope was that Luke was just as strong as Vader and so could theoretically take on the Emperor and Vader. What they didn't count on was it to perhaps be the only assassination plan that would work; cause Vader's most trusted and closest bodyguard to turn on him and kill him. As we saw, no one else could achieve that other than Luke, and perhaps Leia should it be necessary.

I don't think anything presented undermines the story of Star Wars, even the weird time travel stuff bought up in Rebels has its place to me. Rebels explores the Force in ways I didn't expect but now that I think about it makes sense. The 'World Between Worlds' as it's called where you can seemingly jump into different moments in time actually makes sense. The Force is something that exists in all living things and binds the galaxy together. It exists throughout space, so in theory why not time? It could also explain how people can see the future and past, maybe they are tapping into this part of the force? I dunno. It's interesting to speculate and think though, and no I don't think it eliminates the 'mystery of the force' only deepens it for me and causes me to ask more questions.

Before anyone states the obvious I'll do it for you. Ahem.

"bUt eeeeBaaak, iF tHe jeeedAi cAn tIMe TrAVel, wHy DoN'T thEy gO bAcK iN tImE aNd sToP oRdEr 66."

That's a very good question. One I don't have a definitive answer to, only speculation. Much like your own speculation that no one tried it or even considered it an idea or knew about it. Here's my take: Because that's not the Jedi way. Jedi are incredibly powerful, ridiculously powerful if you attempt to apply any scientific basis for what they can do. I found this by watching a Death Battle episode that pitted Obi-Wan vs some Naruto character and they highlighted just ridonculously powerful jedi are, but there is one big limiting factor: The Jedi themselves. They actively have this power, but don't use it or only use a fraction of it due to their own beliefs and tenants. I'm sure even the Jedi themselves have discussed how dangerous time travel itself could be.

Return of the Jedi as a title: Vader was defeated, the prophecy to bring balance to the force came to pass, the Emperor was removed from power. It's a fitting title, but it also goes deeper than just what we see to me. To me, Ahsoka, who is no longer a Jedi I will point out, is pegged as the best example of a Jedi and that's pointed out in the latest episodes of the Clone Wars. SPOILERS BEYOND: All the Jedi in that situation all had the same idea "It's me, or them." Yoda did not bat an eyelid when he cut the head off two Clone Troopers. Yes they were about to execute them, but he could have destroyed their weapons, removed them from their hands or even restrain them he is powerful enough to do so. Instead, he outright kills them. Same for any Jedi who defends themself. Ahoska actively attempted to not kill anyone directly and she made a point of that by saying that she wouldn't kill them (and I know, the whole letting Maul out did lead to deaths, but even after that she made it a point 'I will not kill them'.

My point is this; At the end of Return of the Jedi, Luke has surpassed his teachers. He became an exemplary version of a Jedi because he threw down his weapon when he realised what he was doing and said 'he would not fight (kill).' Despite Obi Wan and Yoda repeatedly telling him he must 'face Vader' and 'he is more machine than man' and that by not killing his father the Emperor 'had already won'. Luke, like Ahsoka had truly become what a Jedi is meant to be and not what the Order was during the last decades of the Republic. Now that's not to say that Luke himself might not slip back into the same mistake his teachers would make eventually. Darkness does seemingly run in the family. However at that moment, Luke was a definitive Jedi.

That was the moment the Jedi Returned, when the person who would inherit the legacy of the Jedi stood his ground and embodied the very ideals of the Jedi and in the process defeated the Sith and resulted in a collapse of the Empire. The Jedi did not get their revenge, they returned. Is this merely my interpretation and speculation. Yes, it carries no weight to anyone but me, however it might make some people think. All in all, I don't think survivors of the purge being around and doing positive things in the galaxy means the Jedi are back.

Anyway, to conclude I feel that Rebels adds to the universe and makes it more unique and doesn't take away from the stories we have seen happen. Its a disservice to dismiss it so readily. You don't have to like it, but to plug your ears and go lalalala is the ultimate insult anyone can do to continuity (and I speak for all of Star Wars, not just Rebels. There's some stuff in books I hate...but I still accept it happened). Have your opinions, sure, but canon is canon.

So much ALL of this...The difference between a Sith and a Jedi. Sith abuse power. Jedi use restraint. Or did when they were not dealing in absolutes like Obi Wan.

I think that is part of what makes Qui gon so good and Ahsoka even better...

52 minutes ago, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

I admit, calling soccer football probably makes a bit more sense, but gridiron football is the better football! No 0-0 ties here, and anybody who fakes an injury gets laughed out of the stadium

Oh, but AFL isn't soccer. I hate soccer. Australian Rules Football! (Australian Football League). Yeah, soccer makes more sense being called "football" and NFL probably makes the least sense, since you hardly ever kick it... but I still hate soccer. I don't mind NFL (in theory). I don't get all the rules but its fun and I've watched a few college games with my father in law (he loves Alabama and the Sooners... when I die I'll be sooner dead). But AFL is such a fun game... and scores get up past 100 regularly. Lots of highlights.

I'll check out those highlights though! Check out some AFL top plays or whatever on youtube. good stuff!

26 minutes ago, Nytwyng said:

Go team!

indeed. but it's still fun... 🙂

6 hours ago, Ebak said:

That's a very good question. One I don't have a definitive answer to, only speculation. Much like your own speculation that no one tried it or even considered it an idea or knew about it. Here's my take: Because that's not the Jedi way.

I'd agree in general, but somebody built that gateway in the Jedi temple...perhaps it was the Mortis gods themselves. And apparently the Sith ritual is a gateway. I just think it's really hard to do and a bit dependent on "astrological" convergences of events in space and time, so whether or not you are inclined to mess with timelines, the odds of being able to do so are extremely small.

6 hours ago, Mandalore of the Rings said:

Oh, but AFL isn't soccer. I hate soccer. Australian Rules Football! (Australian Football League).

Ah yes, rugby. Last time I watched rugby, I was probably 6. Doesn't come on all that much in the US. I've got much more respect for rugby than soccer. I should probably watch some clips like you suggest. Who knows, maybe I'll start watching some full games.

One of my enduring disappointments is that Karen Traviss is British, so Mandalorians' favorite sport is soccer of all things! Rugby is their second favorite, which I find acceptable. That said, gridiron football should be their favorite, it's perfect for small-team tactics and the strategy is awesome. One of the reasons I like Kuechly so much is that he was one of the smartest players in the game.

(edit: after watching some highlight reels and a video explaining what I was watching, I realized it's different than rugby. My bad.)

41 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

What....is...this???? goes baqck to watching star wars...

A li’l thing called a joke?

29 minutes ago, Mandalore of the Rings said:

indeed. but it's still fun... 🙂

We have slightly different definitions of fun, then. 😏

9 minutes ago, Nytwyng said:

We have slightly different definitions of fun, then. 😏

Ahhh, the nerd, jealous of the more physically fit members of society...

Just be nerdy about the stats! I'm a fighter plane, and even I find it fascinating to see you meatbags run back and forth on a field. The numbers are amazing!

23 minutes ago, whafrog said:

I'd agree in general, but somebody built that gateway in the Jedi temple...perhaps it was the Mortis gods themselves. And apparently the Sith ritual is a gateway. I just think it's really hard to do and a bit dependent on "astrological" convergences of events in space and time, so whether or not you are inclined to mess with timelines, the odds of being able to do so are extremely small.

Sounds about like what I had in mind the time I used the World Between Worlds as a GM. In addition, I see the “windows” on the inside as just that: windows on events that have already happened (even if, from the observer’s perspective, they haven’t happened yet...looping us back around to DS9, and the way the Prophets didn’t perceive time in a linear fashion). Ezra was able to grab Ahsoka because that’s what had “already” happened (at the end of “Twilight of the Apprentice,” we see an indistinct figure descending into a doorway that the later episode clarifies as Ahsoka). He couldn’t save Kanan, because he hadn’t saved Kanan; the windows effectively show what Doctor Who refers to as fixed points in time.

And that’s why, in the session I ran, the players who entered the WBW encountered Jerec from Dark Forces II. He’d been pulled in during the climactic fight with Kyle Katarn, but couldn’t get out, since he wasn’t involved in any of those fixed points in time and the portal he’d used had been closed.

Just now, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

Ahhh, the nerd, jealous of the more physically fit members of society...

Just be nerdy about the stats! I'm a fighter plane, and even I find it fascinating to see you meatbags run back and forth on a field. The numbers are amazing!

Nah, not jealous at all. Just completely uninterested in even the stats. Obviously, many others’ mileage varies.

Although I’ll admit I got some fun out of being the spoiler in a friendly fantasy baseball league for a few years. Had no idea about the abilities of players, but would draft based on chaos theory: when it was my turn to toss out someone during the draft, I closed my eyes and dropped my pen on a random name at the appropriate position. This would result in getting a lot of “dollar players” and my ability to swoop in during bidding wars over apparently big players and outbid the people who’d strategically planned out who they wanted. Did absolutely no maintenance on my teams during the season. Never won, but never finished last. Drove the ultra-sports guy in the group who’d spent months researching and planning crazy, especially when I’d end up doing better than him. 🤣

29 minutes ago, Nytwyng said:

A li’l thing called a joke?

watches the joke sail over @Nytwyng 's head

17 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

watches the joke sail over @Nytwyng 's head

Entirely possible. 😁

THEY ARE NOT CARTOONS! THEY ARE ANIMATED FEATURES! ANIMATED FEATURES!!!!

1 hour ago, DidntFallAsleep66 said:

THEY ARE NOT CARTOONS! THEY ARE ANIMATED FEATURES! ANIMATED FEATURES!!!!

Only if they’re feature length. 😏

Just now, Nytwyng said:

Only if they’re feature length. 😏

Well... there was that Clone Wars movie...

9 minutes ago, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

Well... there was that Clone Wars movie...

Yep. Doesn’t make the whole series an animated feature, though. 😁

9 hours ago, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

Luke Kuechly (Panthers) retired last season after 8 years of being pretty much the best linebacker in football (I strongly suggest you check out his highlight reels), Brees is the Saints' quarterback, and is vying for top all-time quarterback, Lamar Jackson is something of a newbie, but is the Ravens' quarterback and had a fantastic season last year, Alvin Kamara is the Saints' running back, and Benjamin Watson is a tight end and has played for the Saints (twice), the Ravens, the Browns, and (sadly) the Patriots (twice) (though I'm happy for him that he won a Super Bowl with them back in '05, just wish it wasn't with the Pats).

I admit, calling soccer football probably makes a bit more sense, but gridiron football is the better football! No 0-0 ties here, and anybody who fakes an injury gets laughed out of the stadium!

Go Bills!!!! 🏈

5 hours ago, Nytwyng said:

Yep. Doesn’t make the whole series an animated feature, though. 😁

I prefer series to movies these days. You can tell deeper more elaborate stories in them.

19 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

I prefer series to movies these days. You can tell deeper more elaborate stories in them.

I’m fine with both. They serve different purposes and have different structures. Not every story calls for the decompression (to borrow a term that’s been plaguing comics for a decade or two now) of an extended narrative.

For example, most of the Marvel Netflix shows could have used about half the episodes they had in each season (or less) to tell their stories...about feature length. And the CW “Arrowverse” shows have clung too tightly to the season-long arc structure that has become the norm of genre tv.

By the same token, though, I think the X-Men movies trying to capture the scope of adapting the Dark Phoenix story (twice) in just a single movie did it a disservice (twice). What gave the printed story so much of its impact was the long history that Jean Grey had, and watching her gradually change after her advancement to Phoenix. Trying to cram all of that into a two hour movie just didn’t work.

So I think it all just depends on the story being told.

Being from the UK I’ve grown up with proper football (as my dad calls it) & am a genetic Port Vale fan... google them & you’ll understand my pain 🤣

Over numerous years of watching it though it now bores the living **** outta me & I much prefer to follow the NFL!! It’s far more entertaining &, like P47 says, if somebody goes down they’ve been hit hard & not just breathed on heavily from 3 feet away 🤣

Go JETS 👍

21 hours ago, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

I realized it's different than rugby. My bad.

Glad I didn't respond till I read the whole thing. Yes, not rugby, at all... but I don't mind rugby either! Australia has 4 "footballs" already, which is why American Football would never make it. (Australian football, Rugby League, Rugby Union (quite different rules) and finally soccer). Australian rules is soooo good though! They hold the grand final in the same place every year (Melbourne Cricket Ground which holds 100,000 spectators!!). Anyhoo... Star Wars, right?

I didn't mind the time travel thing that much but it didn't really seem to fit in Star Wars. I guess it added a fun twist. I still don't really get what significance that owl thing had, and I wondered when I saw it again in Clone Wars... hmm. It would be fun to see one in Mandalorian, just kinda watching yoda baby from a tree or something. I loved seeing the loth-cat in episode 3 or 4 or whatever.

3 hours ago, AceSolo5 said:

if somebody goes down they’ve been hit hard & not just breathed on heavily from 3 feet away

Oh yeah... every 4 years I try to give soccer another shot ('cause isn't the most popular sport in the world?) and watch the world cup, but then I see all the flopping and whinging and remember why I don't really like it.

It's really interesting that you're from the UK and like NFL!

6 hours ago, AceSolo5 said:

Being from the UK I’ve grown up with proper football (as my dad calls it) & am a genetic Port Vale fan... google them & you’ll understand my pain 🤣

Go JETS 👍

...I guess you had to stay in your comfort zone, huh? No winning teams?

6 hours ago, AceSolo5 said:

Over numerous years of watching it though it now bores the living **** outta me & I much prefer to follow the NFL!! It’s far more entertaining &, like P47 says, if somebody goes down they’ve been hit hard & not just breathed on heavily from 3 feet away 🤣

Now that is an upgrade! Good choice! Have you ever caught one of the games in London?

2 hours ago, Mandalore of the Rings said:

Glad I didn't respond till I read the whole thing. Yes, not rugby, at all... but I don't mind rugby either! Australia has 4 "footballs" already, which is why American Football would never make it. (Australian football, Rugby League, Rugby Union (quite different rules) and finally soccer). Australian rules is soooo good though! They hold the grand final in the same place every year (Melbourne Cricket Ground which holds 100,000 spectators!!).

Australian football is awesome. Sadly, I doubt I'll be able to catch many games, so it's just highlight reels for me... sigh... It's got the best of soccer and some elements of American football (and even basketball, strangely enough).
Speaking of highlight reels, I completely forgot Christian Mccaffery! He's the only reason the Panthers were even competitive last year, being only the third running back to both rush for and catch for over 1,000 yards, all while playing with a mediocre offensive line and a third-string quarterback. I'd suggest you check out his 19-20 season highlights. (just don't look at the scores... ouch)

2 hours ago, Mandalore of the Rings said:

Oh yeah... every 4 years I try to give soccer another shot ('cause isn't the most popular sport in the world?) and watch the world cup, but then I see all the flopping and whinging and remember why I don't really like it.

I tried it once when I was about 7 and gave up after 5 minutes. Every so often, if there's a game on and it's a commercial break for the good football, I'll watch them run back and forth while the announcers try to be exciting.

2 hours ago, Mandalore of the Rings said:

I didn't mind the time travel thing that much but it didn't really seem to fit in Star Wars. I guess it added a fun twist. I still don't really get what significance that owl thing had, and I wondered when I saw it again in Clone Wars... hmm. It would be fun to see one in Mandalorian, just kinda watching yoda baby from a tree or something. I loved seeing the loth-cat in episode 3 or 4 or whatever.

What is this "Star Wars" you speak of?

As for the Convor, I'll explain later on in spoiler text since you mentioned you haven't watch Clone Wars all the way through yet (unless that was someone else).
I agree, it would be interesting seeing it watching over Baby Yoda, especially because of its significance. And the Loth-Cat was Episode 4. Anybody else think the Loth-Cats shouldn't really exist? Their heads are HUGE compared to the rest of them, you'd think they just fall over or have really bad neck problems. I accepted it for the cartoon, stylized and all, but seeing it in live action (well, realistic CGI) was a bit odd.

1 hour ago, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

...I guess you had to stay in your comfort zone, huh? No winning teams?

Now that is an upgrade! Good choice! Have you ever caught one of the games in London?

Haha... very true, I'm used to pain, suffering & disappointment when supporting a team 🤣 This year though... This year!!!

And no, I keep meaning to catch one of the London Games but have never managed it yet... I was planning to get to a game this year but I hear that those have understandably been cancelled so will definitely catch one the next time they're held over here!