So many games need a LCG revival.

Deadlands and 7th Sea come instantly to mind.

All LCG systems have a unique element to them that doesn't just make them just another MTG clone. I love the strategy behind every decision. Doomtown, the Deadlands card, game was very unique. Combat was done through Poker. Each card had a symbol in the top corn for each of the types of suits in Poker.

With the release of each LCG I have noticed they all have locations in them. Doomtown had these too. They have strategy behind what cards you include in the deck that go beyond just making it full of multiple good cards. With Deadlands, you had to cater the deck to have the suites in them. You could cheat the deck by including all Aces, but the draw back is that Aces are on the weaker cards and unique cards, so they would just take up space once you had one in play.

Every LCG has an in depth lore behind them to follow as story pack cycles. Deadlands has a very rich story behind it because it was crafted for a Roleplaying Game and followed the Legend of the Five Rings tournament format to determine what happens next.

I found my old Deadlands cards the other day while looking for deck boxes for my Invasion cards. Please FFG try to get the license. You lack a Western license game and this would be perfect to fill that hole. The LCG format would take that Poker deck balancing to a whole new level, because now decks wont be limited by the number of Poker suits available to the person from card packs with random cards in them.

From the Wiki .

Doomtown (originally Deadlands:Doomtown) is a collectible card game, a companion to the Deadlands roleplaying setting.

The game sets itself apart from other CCGs by having each card also serve as a playing card and resolving certain in-game situations with a hand of poker, thus accentuating the Old West atmosphere of the game. The game involves complex deck construction and deep strategies, and was designed with multiplayer (three or more players) in mind. The sheer amount of card draw in the game makes luck much less of a factor, while the movement rules (in the style of board games such as chess) reward intelligent strategy.

Doomtown was heavily story-driven as well, with a detailed and intriguing storyline that affected cards and play styles. An example was the Fear Level that changed with each expansion and improved or disrupted play styles. Doomtown also held storyline tournaments in which players could directly influence the storyline. For instance, in the finals of a major storyline tournament, Sheriff Coleman was killed by a Sweetrock hired gunman; the sheriff was subsequently killed in the storyline, resulting in new events and action cards, and a later experienced version was Harrowed (revived as a living dead) to avenge his own death.

Examples of various factions:

BlackJacks: The outlaws of the game, constantly robbing the populace, and bearing a grudge against Sweetrock. Blackjack was their original leader.

Law Dogs: The lawmen of the town. Usually consists of a sheriff and his deputies. They hunt down wanted dudes and disperse justice.

Collegium: Mad scientists who use Ghost Rock to power their gadgets. These guys can dispense some serious hurt if you let them.

Sweetrock Mining Company: The big corporation around those parts, with lots of capital to spend. They employ shady and highly aggressive tactics to win the town.

Whateleys: Lovecraftian family involved in witchcraft and demonology. Very nasty. They are the primary users of Hexes in the game.

Sioux Union: A coalition of many different Indian tribes. They are the primary enemy of the Whateleys in the original storyline. They are the primary users of Spirits spells in the game

Maze Rats: A band of pirates, mostly Chinese. They raid the mines of the Great Maze and use Kung Fu.

Texas Rangers: Agents of the South (the Civil War is still dragging on). Their general policy toward the supernatural is "shoot it or recruit it".

The Agency (A special branch of the Pinkertons) : Agents of the North. Under the guidance of the Ghost, they aim to cleanse Gomorra of occult influence.

Lost Angels (replacing the similar Flock, which was eliminated from the storyline): They think they are the chosen of God, but the reality is much more sinister. They use their miracles in an attempt to bring about the Apocalypse.

Doesn't AEG still own the rights on Doomtown (never played it but I always thought it looked great)

I believe they do, but they could license it the way FASA licensed BattleTech and FRPG licensed Doomtown originally to WotC. I, too, am a massive fan of Doomtown, and still play regularly, head-up and multi. I have to say that of all the dead games I've played, this would benefit the most from the LCG format. The original release program was called Rolling Thunder, which I suspect was an influence on the LCG design. It was a predecessor, at the least; each month, an expansion of 52 cards (very cheeky, no?) would be released, and would advance an unfolding storyline. In fact, the sets were named "Episode 1 & 2" (the base set), "Episode 3", "Episode 4", etc. Killer release system. Difference was, it was still a TCG, so it came in starters and boosters, but with 10 commons and 5 uncommons per pack, called "Saddle Bags". They termed the uncommons "rares", but...whatever. Tomato, tomahto.

Your Outfit was your group, or clan, or race, or any of the other similar-termed mechanics. You used a card (included in the starter box for that Outfit), or the back of the box itself, to signify what Outfit you respresented. This Home Card, as it was called, also gave your vital stats: starting money, money production per turn, and all of your special abilities. These Home Cards could easily be translated into a Capitol Board concept, or maybe something slightly smaller, since the locations that were brought into play were cards as well. Capitol Board-sized Homes and locations may be a bit space-intensive, yeah?

I would dive headfirst into a Doomtown LCG, for certain. Start a petition!!!!!

Overseer Lazarus said:

Tastes obviously vary a lot. I'm having a difficult time thinking of a genre I'd consider more niche.

Doomtown was a really good CCG in it's time. Unfortunately times have moved on and I don't think it will get the player base it will need.

jhaelen said:

What would be more lame is activism against such game. You could just not play it...

Yes, Doomtown is very cheesy but it has:

- Horror!

- An excuse to be poker-themed.

- Steampunk weirdness!

I own a couple of starters. I haven't played it so far, but it does look interesting, also mechanics-wise.

Marius said:

Regarding the 'just don't play it' comment:

I've had similar arguments before. The problem is: If a big company produces games that are only of interest for a niche market, they are hurting themselves and by extension every one of their customers. Developing products that nobody (except a (vocal) minority) is interested in, consumes precious and limited resources that would be better spent elsewhere.

If FFG creates a new Deadlands LCG, there'll be (at least) one game that will _not_ be produced that might be of actual interest to a larger customer base.

Anyway, previous incidents have shown, that FFG knows when to pull the plug on planned products that probably won't sell well (see the Arkham Horror minis), so I'm confident they won't even consider a Deadlands LCG, no matter the number of petitions.

Disclaimer: Of course I could also be totally wrong and a Deadlands LCG really has the mass appeal to support a product line.

I don't know why you think that the horror/fantasy wild west setting has any less mass appeal than warhammers generic fantasy or chuthlu in general (in other words no mass appeal, they are all niche markets).

Darksbane said:

Isn't that obvious? There is a subset of LCG players (which are a subset of gamers in general) interested in horror, a subset interested in fantasy, and a subset interested in western. The intersection of all three subsets includes the players interested in all three of them. This intersection could include zero players or it could contain as many as the conjunction of all three subsets. In most cases it will be something inbetween.

jhaelen said:

Thanks for the vote of confidence.

Guess you never saw the number one selling series set in the weird west by Steven King the Dark Tower.

Don't let the old John Wayne movies or god forbid the Wild West movie cloud your vision of a dark horror western. When done right (which Deadlands is) they can be a blast. It is funny because I don't like the western genre either. But I do love certain movies like Tombstone and just about any of the ones with Clint staring in them.

Rockstar disagreed with the west being "too cool for school" and now they are cashing in big bucks with the hit Red Dead Redemption.

For the record I think the same about Battlestar that you do about weird west. Taste obviously vary a lot, eh? But I didn't go into the Battlestar boards and trash the concept. Respect my brother respect.

That's just because you haven't played BSG (or else, not played with a group of good players).

But, all light heartedness aside, to each player his own tastes. If FFG released a BSG card game, I would try it. If FFG released a Doomtown game, other would buy it. Whether the game itself has legs is up to the players to decide. I for one never expected Naruto to survive past a second expansion, let alone 5 years!

I played Battlestar the game at my store quite a few times. But since you say I didn't......then I guess I have yet to try it. Stupid Jedi and their cheap mind tricks.

I did not like the show because I don't think Sci-fi is ever worthy of TV computer graphics....*thinks about CG parts in LOST* shivers.

Truth be told if I want to play a good sci-fi game. I will play Starcraft the Board Game or Twilight Imperium. If I want a good co-op, I will play Arkham Horror. Battlerstar for me, suffers from the same flaws that Spore does. It borrows from a bit of every game I like but each element it borrows from a game, that game just does better.

So I guess to make this relevant I will ask you this out of curiousness. If you had to pick a good game set in the weird west what would you choose?

Ya'h see Deadlands, in my opinion, improves on the concepts and mechanics it takes from other games. Battlestar for me doesn't improve the sci fi genre better than Twilight Imperium. The co-op part isn't more personal that Arkham Horror. The betrayal part of the game isn't as ugly as Citadels. Finally not trying to offend but I really don't like the show's lore.

That is why BSG doesn't suit my taste at all. I don't find a reason to own it, if other games will just be played over it when the opportunity comes up.

Edit: Almost forgot. I learned the lesson of buying too many games after I bought Talisman. That game is a monster, a devourer, a possible rival for Galactus. That game gets played more than another game....grr..I mean I love it, but what about all those other games. The board is attractive, the setting is cool, easy setup makes people want to play, and finally rules are more simple than those of a few Hasbro games lol.

Sigh, alas, I know Talisman will meet its end when DungeonQuest is released....I see many games going to the "island of misfit board games" in th eback of the store.

jhaelen said:

Yes but you assume, because you dont like the western setting, that it's subset must be small or non existant.

Would be interesting to see if they pick up the plot, or restart/reboot it if something like this happened.

Since apparently, as of Reloaded, Gomorra's a bloody ghost town.

Darksbane said:

I'm just saying neither of us can say how popular it would be. You wouldn't play, but I think it is arguable to say it is more niche than Cthulhu horror, or most sci-fi/fantasy. I mean a pretty huge fantasy western movie (Jonah Hex) is opening in 1day and westerns in general have been pretty popular over the years. In addition the old Doomtown CCG used poker as a large part of the combat mechanic and poker in various forms has seen quite a popularity boost since the CCG got canceled.

I loved the Doomtown CCG.

I think the original release of Doomtown expansions was a system they called "Rolling Thunder" ... and you can almost think of it as a hybrid between CCG and LCG. Each month or quarter, a new expansion would come out, and it would only contain ... like ... 120 cards, I think. And the rare cards are typically very focused, so their "usefulness" is not as high as the more-common cards.

Anyway... I personally think it would fantastic if Doomtown was re-released under an LCG format.

As someone who play the game when it was released and still has a fair collection, i can honestly say it was one of the most innovative CCG's out there, and hasnt been surpassed in this probably since.

Once you look past the setting, you realise that its appeal lies in the fact that you can choose to play a faction that suits what appeals to you as a CCG player.

Like to play a fast paced aggro deck, then you can choose to play the Law Dogs (The Sherrif and his men) If you like resouce denial decks then you go with the Blackjacks (a straight up gang of bad guys) If on the other hand you like the idea of playing a bunch of Mutant Hillbillies that use the power of undeath to batter your opponent then you have a faction for you as well (all hail the Whatley's)

And it goes on, because the game takes every genre and sticks it all in one coherant setting, using really innovative rules for deciding combat and has storylines that take the game foward.

All of which probably do make it perfect to bring back as an LCG.

Problem would be that the game is owned by another company and is FFG going to want to add another game to its range with all the costs associated with licencing etc, as well as the future developmental costs. Given the current economic climate it might be too costly a gamble to take.

FFG has some of the most major licenses I have seen a company with. Blizzard, Disney, Games Workshop. I am sure they could convince Pinnacle to let them release the TCG in LCG format. All they would need to do is agree to advertise the RPG in the card game in my opinion. Just like they do for Games Workshop.

All they need to do is buy the rights to use the system. They can get new art and such if they want. Heh I make it sound easy with the words "all they have to do".

Deadlands was a terrific CCG and would be a fantastic LCG, BSG will always be very much in the second rank of Sci Fi.

I loved Doomtown (still have all of my cards!). It was a very unique CCG in terms of setting (no generic sci-fi/fantasy here!) and mechanics (playing poker to resolve shootouts). I think that with the myriad of factions and playstyles, it could be a good fit for a LCG, especially since Doomtown was friendly for 3+ players.

I think that rebooting the story would work the best. It would give FFG a chance to clean up the rules (movement and jobs were clunky) and revamp dudes and locations to fit the new rules. A core set with Law Dogs, Blackjacks, Collegium, and Sweetrock would be interesting. Add in the spell using factions after the first expansion block.

I would buy it!

I'd play this. Kennon and I were joking about it the other day. And I was totally telling my girlfriend about the game a couple days ago. I miss that ccg.

I am also a fan of the Doomtown CCG. I would love to see it done in the LCG format with the FFG touch.

I'd be all over that game.

IMHO, the most innovative card game, ever. A LOT of fun to play.

Papa