So, we know there's a hiatus after this cycle, and we know that there at least were plans for the game to return in a way that was different but most assuredly not a second edition. Granted, all of that may be totally moot with Asmodee's recent slicing and dicing to FFG's staff and product lines, but the current reprints of sets like Khazad-Dum bode somewhat well for the profitability/viability of the game from Asmodee's perspective.


So, what might a continuation/return of the game after the Great Hiatus look? In what follows, I'll offer rampant speculation of my own wishful thinking.

Given what we've now seen with AGOT 2nd Edition and it's move toward new bulk packs of re-release cards, the "conversion kit" and "card only" expansions for X-Wing's Second Edition, the distribution model of Marvel Champion's LCG, and the continuation of the "scenario kit" packs like Mines of Moria, I think the future of LotR LCG would be one where Player Cards and Encounter Cards are released as separate products. Which makes both stocking the game and getting into the game much, much easier.


For a new distribution model, I'd like to see:
(1) A New Core Set - reprints, modernized selection
(2) Faction Starter Boxes -- themed collections of reprints aimed at new players
(3) Hero Packs -- new hero included alongside new player cards, aimed at old and new players alike
(4) Scenario Kits (e.g. The Woodland Realm, The Wizard's Quest, The Mines of Moria, and other new quest adventures) - the only place to find encounter cards moving forward


The Faction Starter Boxes would be themed around existing factions/traits, and would be an opportunity to allow new players to jump into the game. While these packs (along with the Core Set) would reprint many of the cards from the first nine cycles, obviously not all cards would be transferred over. While old cards could all remain legal, there are clearly some "dud" old cards that could be kept in the pool without being reprinted while not severely disadvantaging players who lacked the old cards (e.g. Soldier of Gondor does a great job of updating and replacing the lackluster Guard of the Citadel). Priced around $30 (like a Deluxe), they could include around 10-20 Heroes and 60 player cards (in triplets of course, offering roughly 20 attachments, 20 allies, and 20 events, adjusted to suit each theme's needs), putting it at around 200 cards which is very close to what the Deluxes contain (though most cards are encounter cards). Grabbing one of these packs would allow a player to immediately start building a huge variety of decks based around a theme, while accruing multiple faction starters brings players closer to having the the entire collection of (meaningful) player cards that are still available to long-time players. To entice old players, these Faction Starter Boxes might also offer faction-inspired art on (aesthetically) new threat counters and tokens, as well as some updated art and, in the case of errata'ed cards, corrected text. While some long-time players might be a bit grumpy that new players can accrue close to the entire compendium of player cards for 8x$30 purchases, by virtue of having all nine cycles + sagas longtime players they have access to over 100 quests that new players will not possess.

I could imagine a few Starter Boxes, including: Gondor , Rohan , Shire-Folk (Hobbits/Ents), High Elves (Havens/Rivendell), Wood Elves (Lorien/Mirkwood), Dwarves , and Northern Rhovanion (Dale/Woodmen/Eagles). Possibly also starter boxes themed around player cards pertaining to the Hobbit and the Lord of the Rings.

These starter boxes, in conjunction with the Core Set, would give returning players access to most of the worthwhile player cards from the 9 Cycles. For game entry and stocking purposes, this effectively shrinks over 60 products into 8 deluxe-sized boxes. Then, as new content is released in Scenario Kits and New Hero Packs, players can grab the new content at their discretion without having to worry about matching APs with Deluxes, lest they risk owning useless encounter cards.


As someone who just got into the game this past year, an entry point that was something like this would have been wonderfully appreciated, as otherwise theory-crafting decks and trying to snipe the needed packs is an organizational nightmare, and having to run down over 60 products to have the full lineup of player cards is both time-consuming and expensive, and something that I'm sure dissuades plenty of would-be fans of the game.


What are your thoughts/hopes/dreams for the future of the LotR LCG after the hiatus, even if it but visions that will not come to pass?

Having nearly all of the player cards, this approach does not appeal to me much. That said, I could see it being fantastic for the game and new players. To give an incentive to old players to keep buying, perhaps the boxes could reissue past player cards with alternate art. This way, the old players will not feel like they have to buy all of the cards over again to get a couple of new cards, but may be tempted to in order to get some exciting new art work. As for encounters. I could see a $30 (deluxe size) box with 4 linked scenarios inside.

The Faction Starter boxes is an interesting idea. In fact, some factions you could probably just sell all the cards of an entire faction, or pretty close to it. Other companies sell things by factions, it could work. It's not something that would appeal to me now, because like Felswrath, I pretty much have all the cards now. But newer players might like it.

I think we can probably look to the Marvel lCG for an idea of how things are going to pan out, which I endorse. Player card packs that give a hefty amount of player cards, and scenario packs that serve as either a collection of standalone scenarios, or mini blocks(three scenarios that are strung together thematically/in terms of story.

I'd be very on board with that kind of content rollout- They also wouldn't have to print that many player card packs a year if the card count was comparable to the number of cards in the marvel hero packs. Not that it matters to me since I will buy all the content for this game that comes out, but it also would give players more control and choice over what they are buying- Already have a good number of scenarios? You can just buy player cards, and vice versa.

I'd like to see a re-imaging of the rules/ deck requirements/ quests. For example, Arkham LCG and Marvel have much more manageable deck sizes for folks who don't like to deck build. LOTR could, for example, reduce the deck size to 35 and restrict each card to 2 copies. It'd make the game more approachable and easier for folks to jump in.

Thrones is effectively a dead game now. I wouldn't look to it for any signs of hope relating to LotR.

A 2nd edition or restructuring of currently released product is probably the best outlook.

2 hours ago, qwertyuiop said:

Thrones is effectively a dead game now. I wouldn't look to it for any signs of hope relating to LotR.

Sure, though correct me if I'm wrong, but I think there are key differences between Thrones and LotR :
(1) I don't think Thrones LCG was ever as popular as LotR LCG as far as sales and number of players? To this day, some LotR LCG reprints still sell out within 24-48 hours (e.g. the recent reprint of KD+Dwarrowdelf).
(2) Thrones had a 2nd Edition, which almost always results in a loss of some % of current players
(3) Thrones was a competitive game and not a cooperative game, meaning it's only viable if you have an active community of people to play against, and also requires a much more aggressive curating of balance and fairness between decks.
(4) Thrones fandom ran into some frustration and fatigue, both because GRRM never finished the book series AND because people generally seemed to despise the final television season



Given those issues, I wouldn't necessarily tie the fate of the LotR LCG to that of GoT LCG , since in a lot of ways they are apples and oranges. I think people are just point to Thrones , Champions , and X-Wing 2.0 as merely evidence that FFG is both willing and able to change and modify their old product structuring models, to the extent that should LotR return it would almost certainly have a new product structuring for the dissemination of cards, new or old.



COVID-19 Edit : Of course, all of this is mostly academic and is even more up in the air with the pandemic. The world will be fundamentally and permanently changed by this crisis, especially regarding global production and distribution. As the economy tailspins and unemployment in the US threatens to reach 30%, it's also the case that luxury good items are often the first purchases that consumers forgo in order to meet needs. There's no assurance that FFG even survives what could be a years-long upheaval of the global economy. Even if FFG fully intended to return to the LotR LCG after the hiatus, those plans could get tossed in light of everything.

5 hours ago, EBerling said:

Sure, though correct me if I'm wrong, but I think there are key differences between Thrones and LotR :
(1) I don't think Thrones LCG was ever as popular as LotR LCG as far as sales and number of players? To this day, some LotR LCG reprints still sell out within 24-48 hours (e.g. the recent reprint of KD+Dwarrowdelf).
(2) Thrones had a 2nd Edition, which almost always results in a loss of some % of current players
(3) Thrones was a competitive game and not a cooperative game, meaning it's only viable if you have an active community of people to play against, and also requires a much more aggressive curating of balance and fairness between decks.
(4) Thrones fandom ran into some frustration and fatigue, both because GRRM never finished the book series AND because people generally seemed to despise the final television season



Given those issues, I wouldn't necessarily tie the fate of the LotR LCG to that of GoT LCG , since in a lot of ways they are apples and oranges. I think people are just point to Thrones , Champions , and X-Wing 2.0 as merely evidence that FFG is both willing and able to change and modify their old product structuring models, to the extent that should LotR return it would almost certainly have a new product structuring for the dissemination of cards, new or old.



COVID-19 Edit : Of course, all of this is mostly academic and is even more up in the air with the pandemic. The world will be fundamentally and permanently changed by this crisis, especially regarding global production and distribution. As the economy tailspins and unemployment in the US threatens to reach 30%, it's also the case that luxury good items are often the first purchases that consumers forgo in order to meet needs. There's no assurance that FFG even survives what could be a years-long upheaval of the global economy. Even if FFG fully intended to return to the LotR LCG after the hiatus, those plans could get tossed in light of everything.

1) Thrones has been pretty popular throughout the years from when it was a CCG, through both editions of the LCG. I don't think referencing the reprint of KD+cycle really means a whole lot. I believe the hiatus(soft cancellation) was announced before the reprint, and many of those sales could be brand new players who never got a shot at the cycle, or they could be people who see how quickly inventory dries up on popular games that FFG stops supporting (Netrunner, Call of Cthulhu). I could just ask you which game had an annual meetup at a castle for over a decade. Not that it means anything.

2) Judging from the way it received, I wouldn't be surprised if 2nd edition enjoyed a net increase in players. The initial LCG release of Thrones 1ed was not great. My guess would be most people who didn't move to 2nd edition didn't really enjoy the 1st edition. 1st ed was more of a way to transition the CCG into the LCG model which ended up releasing a product with a more clunky feel to the way themes and mechanics were introduced. Seriously, I don't think there was any real drop off between editions.

3) LOTR was a cooperative game and not a competitive game, meaning it's only viable if you have an active community of people to play with. How many people are solo only players? This is still a game meant to be played with others. Solo gamers are still a minority in purchases. See your #1. If LotR LCG was more popular than Thrones in sales, would it be due to an abundance of solo players? Tough to say. I don't know if rebalancing really applies to cooperative games. Who would listen?

4) 100% agree. Even with the show turning into a dumpster fire, the game probably would have maintained or had a resurgence if book 6 had come out somewhat recently.

I promise I'm not trying to dash any hopes of the game continuing, but I've played a lot of different FFG games in the last 15 years and I've seen how they shut down games. Champions had to go full playset in a single core to get the mass market. I'm glad they did it. I would LOVE to see a restructured release of LotR in that format. It's only what.. 50 more cards? I've yet to see anyone who truly likes X-Wing 2.0. The bulk pack for Thrones was a nice goodbye with reprints of 1st ed cards which are either too powerful or too weak for organized play, but are a lot of fun. I think it's a nice sendoff. I'd honestly like to see a 2nd ed of LotR for what it's worth.

I won't speak or speculate on geopolitics or economics, but I do think that people are in a place to reevaluate how they're spending their lives and time.

1 hour ago, qwertyuiop said:

3) LOTR was a cooperative game and not a competitive game, meaning it's only viable if you have an active community of people to play with. How many people are solo only players? This is still a game meant to be played with others. Solo gamers are still a minority in purchases. See your #1. If LotR LCG was more popular than Thrones in sales, would it be due to an abundance of solo players? Tough to say. I don't know if rebalancing really applies to cooperative games. Who would listen?

What is your basis for saying "solo gamers are still a minority in purchases" for LOTR? I was under the impression from discussions here and elsewhere that solo gamers were the clear majority of LOTR players, even though some play solo two-handed.

This poll

https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1623812/poll-lotr-play-style#

and this poll

https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1963638/poll-solo-vs-multiplayer-popularity

both agree with a high percentage of solo plays, and most decks posted to ringsdb seem to me to be one deck-solo capable (though many solo players play two-deck, of course).

FWIW, LOTR LCG lists 30,096 owners at BGG, Game of Thrones LCG (1st Ed) lists 9,834 owners, and Game of Thrones LCG (2nd Ed) lists 7,325 owners. Since primarily solo polls at ~70% for LOTR players, the remaining 30% of primarily multi-player LOTR owners would lie between the 1st and 2nd edition ownership totals for Game of Thrones.

I never played it, but AGoT was a huge LCG back in its day. I have no idea how it compares to LotR, but it was one of FFG’s flagship products for a while.

Yeah LOTR is definitely primarily a solo game that also happens to be awesome at all player counts.

As for what I would like to see after the break:

Deluxe Quest boxes just called an expansion pack, you could have all 9 quests in one place, sell it for the price of a core and it could contain some unlockable boon cards/new heroes/allies/attachments/events sidequests that you earn after each mission and can use in the rest of the game after earning it.

Faction packs, a rerelease kind of thing, with three heroes, and 50 card pre made decks of the key traits with alternate expanded art for everything (like the limited edition) and alt art heroes. Would help new players get caught up on what they want to play so they can jump right into the new expansion packs. And it would be incentive for us players that have everything to pick them up for sweet new art as well as a more reasonable way to get extra copies of things like Elven-Light, Test of Will, Gandalf and the like.

Regardless of future product model, there are a couple of things that FFG should definitely do:

- PLEASE complete the nightmare decks. Even if it is hard to do 3 more nightmare cycles, PLEASE finish the Nightmare Saga

- PLEASE publish a pack with all the errata'd cards, probably with 4-5 more cards that this game's fanbase has been asking for years! You will name it "There and Back Again", every single fan will buy it, there is absolutely NO reason not to do that! AGOT LCG had its final pack, this LCG cries for such a product!

as someone who played for a bit, life got in the way and just as I picked it back up, it goes on hiatus, what I would like to see is:

primarily available of hard to get packs. My chances of finding a copy of Celebrimbors Secret, for example, are somewhere between slim and none. Would be great to see a way for newer players to get key packs that have cards we might enjoy