1 hour ago, Tramp Graphics said:Uuuuuuuuuhhhhhh No.
Anywhat, check out these rather informative videos on the issue of "uiniversal healthcare".
Of course you would link something from PragerU.
Here, have something different.
Is this relevant to the discussion at hand? About as relevant as your stuff.
5 minutes ago, Eoen said:By any metric on earth besides America. There’s a real left in Canada 🇨🇦 so it’s easy to recognize theirs no effective left or real left here in 🇺🇸 .
Well I use the political compass. There is the economic right vs. left (free market vs. socialism) and the authoritarian vs. libertarian scales. Europe and Canada tend to be pretty much all on the authoritarian side of the scale, pretty much just varying between economic right and left. The US has significant groups in all 4 quadrants.
@P-47 Thunderbolt We where talking left right, obliviously their are more sophisticated models politicians use. Democrats are classed Center-right by political scientists in most of the world.
Please there’s no need to break out the Venn diagrams for the purposes of this thread.
Edited by Eoen
Meanwhile, I'm just sitting here in Sweden giggling in a mix of amusement and horror at the discussion about there being a "left" in American politics... The so-called leftist Democratic party is pretty far on the right side of the scale in European political measurements.
I think the equivalent in Sweden would be the Moderate party, although the US Democratic party would still be slightly to the right of them.
And keep in mind that the Moderate party is the most party that's the most to the right in Sweden, if you don't count the outright racist and anti-democratic Sweden Democrats with direct ties to Nazi movements.
1 minute ago, Eoen said:@P-47 Thunderbolt We where talking left right, obliviously their are more sophisticated models politicians use. Democrats are classed Center-right by political scientists in most of the world.
Considering many Democrats are openly promoting Socialism bordering on Communism, that's going to be a pretty hard sell. What exactly is "the Left" then?
Just now, P-47 Thunderbolt said:Considering many Democrats are openly promoting Socialism bordering on Communism, that's going to be a pretty hard sell. What exactly is "the Left" then?
Huh... I've been following the current US election very closely and I haven't seen anyone promoting Socialism.
Who might you be referring to?
5 minutes ago, P-47 Thunderbolt said:Considering many Democrats are openly promoting Socialism bordering on Communism, that's going to be a pretty hard sell. What exactly is "the Left" then?
The core of the party are Wall Street billionaires and arms manufacturers are you kidding? You didn’t notice how they’re railroading Bernie off the ticket again? They’d rather throw the election again than let him win.
Edited by EoenJust now, OddballE8 said:Huh... I've been following the current US election very closely and I haven't seen anyone promoting Socialism.
O_o
Bernie for one. Andrew Yang's policy proposal was certainly trending in that direction. Elizabeth Warren. And more than just presidential candidates. Ocasio Cortez is another easy example. And of course Democrat operatives who don't necessarily even hold political office.
25 minutes ago, OddballE8 said:Huh... I've been following the current US election very closely and I haven't seen anyone promoting Socialism.
Who might you be referring to?
Bernie Sanders . He's an avowed Socialist , and has publically stated as much .
Edited by Tramp Graphics2 minutes ago, OddballE8 said:Huh... I've been following the current US election very closely and I haven't seen anyone promoting Socialism.
Who might you be referring to?
Bernie Sanders has been pushing socialism as has been AOC and pretty much everyone that was running on the DNC ticket was pushing socialist policies.
5 minutes ago, OddballE8 said:Huh... I've been following the current US election very closely and I haven't seen anyone promoting Socialism.
Who might you be referring to?
Funny how people forget the person championing progressive policies is doing the same thing FDR did and is explicitly NOT socialist, but you know, words and definitions are hard.
Democratic Socialism is not the Socialism you all are referring to. I'm sure @OddballE8 could elaborate since a lot of what is being championed by progressives in the US is what Scandinavia has had for decades, and they are not socialist countries.
Edited by StarkJunior11 minutes ago, StarkJunior said:Democratic Socialism is not the Socialism you all are referring to. I'm sure @OddballE8 could elaborate since a lot of what is being championed by progressives in the US is what Scandinavia has had for decades, and they are not socialist countries.
HAHAHAHAAHAHahahahah they dont have socialism in Scandinavia. What Bernies claims he wants and what his policies are do not have anything to do with what they have in Scandinavia. And just because you voted does not make socialism a good idea. Socialism is a bad idea because the people running it will always be corruptable and corrupt. Capitalism works because it rewards doing things to benefit others. In fact they have way more economic freedom in Scandinavia than we do here in the US.
Edited by Daeglan2 minutes ago, Daeglan said:HAHAHAHAAHAHahahahah they dont have socialism in Scandinavia. What Bernies claims he wants and what his policies are do not have anything to do with what they have in Scandinavia. And just because you voted does not make socialism a good idea. Socialism is a bad idea because the people running it will always be corruptable and corrupt. Capitalism works because it rewards doing things to benefit others.
Have you ever heard of the Nordic model?
Scandinavia has capitalism, friend.
4 minutes ago, Daeglan said:HAHAHAHAAHAHahahahah they dont have socialism in Scandinavia. What Bernies claims he wants and what his policies are do not have anything to do with what they have in Scandinavia. And just because you voted does not make socialism a good idea. Socialism is a bad idea because the people running it will always be corruptable and corrupt. Capitalism works because it rewards doing things to benefit others. In fact they have way more economic freedom in Scandinavia than we do here in the US.
Stop with the rhetoric, all human institutions are corruptible, you can’t tell me Walmart is 100% above board. America is rife with corruption it just has a nice coat of paint over it.
Edited by Eoen1 minute ago, StarkJunior said:Have you ever heard of the Nordic model?
Scandinavia has capitalism, friend.
So when I said Bernies Policies had nothing to do with what they have in Scandinavia should be a clue I know they have capitalism in Scandinavia. That was my point. Problem is what Bernie is pushing is not actually the Nordic Model.
5 minutes ago, Daeglan said:So when I said Bernies Policies had nothing to do with what they have in Scandinavia should be a clue I know they have capitalism in Scandinavia. That was my point. Problem is what Bernie is pushing is not actually the Nordic Model.
He's pushing policies that align with the vast majority of Europe - Scandinavia is just a good model, because it's easy to codify it neatly.
He is not a socialist, and Scandinavian countries are not socialist. (And neither is much of Europe.)
The US has exploitative capitalism - Bernie wants to fix that, and adopting policies like his and Scandivania has allow for that, because they care about their citizens.
1 minute ago, Eoen said:Stop with the rhetoric, all human institutions are corruptible, you can’t tell me Walmart is 100% above board. America is rife with corruption it just has a nice coat of paint over it.
Odd I dont seem to recall saying we dont have corruption. But if you want to limit corruption. stop giving government power to sell.
Just now, StarkJunior said:He's pushing policies that align with the vast majority of Europe - Scandinavia is just a good model, because it's easy to codify it neatly.
He is not a socialist, Scandinavia are not socialist countries, and we should have every single thing they have - because they benefit everyone and stop people from ******* dying because they can't afford medical bills, or students never getting out of debt because student loans are predatory.
No he is not. That is the issue. He is pushing for more government control while claiming it is the Nordic Model. When when you compare his policies to what they do in the Scandinavian countries they bear no resemblance at all.
12 minutes ago, StarkJunior said:Democratic Socialism is not the Socialism you all are referring to. I'm sure @OddballE8 could elaborate since a lot of what is being championed by progressives in the US is what Scandinavia has had for decades, and they are not socialist countries.
I beg to differ. Venezuela is proof of that. At one time, it was one of, if not the most prosperous country in South America. That was until the free election of Hugo Chávez , a supposed "Democratic Socialist". After a temporary boost in the economy, it ultimately collapsed with hyperinflation, economic depression and a serious shortage of even basic necessities. It is now one of the poorest countries in South America despite is having vast amounts of resources.
Just now, StarkJunior said:He's pushing policies that align with the vast majority of Europe - Scandinavia is just a good model, because it's easy to codify it neatly.
He is not a socialist, Scandinavia are not socialist countries, and we should have every single thing they have - because they benefit everyone and stop people from ******* dying because they can't afford medical bills, or students never getting out of debt because student loans are predatory.
No. Bernie Sanders has himself explicitly stated he is a Socialist .
2 minutes ago, Tramp Graphics said:No. Bernie Sanders has himself explicitly stated he is a Socialist .
Democratic Socialist.
Edited by StarkJunior3 minutes ago, Daeglan said:No he is not. That is the issue. He is pushing for more government control while claiming it is the Nordic Model. When when you compare his policies to what they do in the Scandinavian countries they bear no resemblance at all.
Cool, let's see a codified list, comparing and contrasting every single policy with those of individual Scandinavian countries.
Just now, StarkJunior said:Democratic Socialist.
There's no difference. Venezuela is proof of that. Socialism, in any form , destroys economies.
Just now, Tramp Graphics said:Venezuela is proof of that.
One example is not proof.
1 minute ago, Tramp Graphics said:There's no difference. Venezuela is proof of that. Socialism, in any form , destroys economies.
There is a big difference, but you know, nuance is hard for you I guess based on other posts. FDR promoted democratic socialism, as did Truman. The New Deal was democratic socialism.