Are critical hits negated by soak?

By TheJrade, in Rules Questions

If an attack is reduced to zero Wound damage by soak are all other effects also negated?

Essentially, is a critical hit a 'status effect' like Ensnare or Knockdown, i.e. can still be activated even if no damage is caused? Or is it an inherent part of the damage being caused? The text states '... and also a critical hit may be inflicted' in a separate paragraph from the section on inflicting and reducing damage. What are the effects of Parry in this situation?

Yes. You need to inflict wounds to inflict a critical injury. If an attack is fully soaked, it can't crit.

See the table on page 104 of the Genesys Core Rulebook:

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Inflict a Critical Injury with a successful attack that deals damage past soak

Parasiting post XD

One doubt about criticals. You can choose to use a minor critical instead a higher one? If you roll a 140, instead kill the target you can choose to maim it?

Thanks!

1 hour ago, Josep Maria said:

Parasiting post XD

One doubt about criticals. You can choose to use a minor critical instead a higher one? If you roll a 140, instead kill the target you can choose to maim it?

Thanks!

Are you asking about inflicting multiple critical injuries on a target during a single combat check, or choosing to not kill a target when you roll a lethal critical?

In the first case, I believe the rule remains from Star Wars in that you cannot double-crit on a single combat check. If you spend additional advantage or triumph to crit again, you simply add +10 to the severity roll. Interestingly, I think they forgot to add this, as I couldn't find it in the CRB or the errata, but I'm pretty sure was in Star Wars.

In the second case, based on how certain talents work, critical injury results lie where they fall unless you have a talent or other ability or piece of gear that would modify that result. Deadeye, for example, allows you to select alternative critical injuries; I'm thinking there's another somewhere that allows you to always subdue non-lethally, but I can't remember which one (something in Secrets of the Crucible, maybe).

So unless you got some specific talent you cannot choose "not to kill" a target? Thanks again!

45 minutes ago, Josep Maria said:

So unless you got some specific talent you cannot choose "not to kill" a target? Thanks again!

This feels untrue, but I need to look it up. I believe with Called Shot you can non-lethally incapacitate the target. There is also an Advantage option where you thematically apply the effects of a temporary Critical Injury, based on the type of attack and location. Again, this is just a feeling and I will look it up when I get back to the books at home.

Starting at page 132 of the CRB.

For minions (bold from the book):

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Critical Injuries kill minions . If a minion suffers a Critical Injury, it is immediately incapacitated. If a group of minions suffers a Critical Injury, it suffers one minion's worth of wounds plus one (so that one of the minions in the group is incapacitated).

So, while incapacitation does not automatically mean death, criticals do kill minions.

For rivals (bold from the book):

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Rivals suffer Critical Injuries normally . However, when a rival exceeds their wound threshold, they can be killed outright (instead of incapacitated) at your discretion.

As this is the GM's chapter of Part I, the "your discretion" would mean the GM's discretion.

For nemeses, it says that they are "identical to PCS in pretty much every respect." So they would suffer critical injuries as normal.

Bottom line, criticals are intended to be lethal. If you don't want to kill, use strain damage and don't trigger critical hits.

Takedown from Shadow of the Beanstalk is the closest talent I can find that allows guaranteed incapacitation, though not with criticals. Star Wars had the Precision Strike talent (Keeping the Peace and No Disintegrations [appropriate]) that did allow the player to always non-lethally incapacitate the target.

Though it's up to GM discretion, I think it's quite reasonable to tell my players that unless they've used an attack or weapon that inflicts strain damage, dead is dead. RPGs are already weighted in favour of the players. If they want to knock someone out, well, you can't just shoot them with a crossbow or railgun and then decide after you roll a 150+ crit "oh actually I just knocked them out". Sorry bud, you needed to make that choice a little earlier. Plus, as Swordbreaker says, there is a precedent in talents that allow you to choose to deal non-lethal damage.

If a player doesn't want to inflict a critical, or to make a critical more lethal if it was triggered by exeeding the Wound Threshold, he / she just needs to not spend any advantage on critical. That's no more complicated than that.