To be sure @Caimheul1313 , I get that the rule is the rule. It's not ambiguous and I understand it.

Here are my objections:

1. To declare or suggest that Legion is as open to customization as other games (it's not).

2. (on the heels of #1), it's disingenuous to make that claim when there are precisely ZERO extra bits, or upgrade kits/bits, etc with which to do any meaningful conversion work.

3. To suggest that obvious color differences aren't as noticeable and obvious as physical model differences. If anything they are probably more noticeable. I'm not talking about the "brim of this trooper's cap is a different color of that trooper's cap" (which is what I do to differentiate between my basic trooper squads. I'm talking about OBVIOUS (can be seen from 4' away) differences.

I get I'm like the lone voice here advocating for that. But this game is always going to be several footsteps behind 40k and other truly customizable mini games if they can't on board with some of this basic stuff. I WANT legion to succeed. I love the mechanics. I'd LOVE to see it overtake 40k as THE tabletop miniature game, but it absolutely needs to come a long way with respect to army customization, and since there is ZERO conversion opportunity, I would assert that some of these binders need to be taken off.

@Rocmistro

1) I'm not claiming there aren't games more open to customization. It is also MORE open to customization than say, Warmahordes. Other miniatures games also don't have to get approval from the Lucas Film Group (LFG) for the models, so it makes sense that the options are more limited. I agree this is unfortunate. It also does NOT specify how much of a given model has to be FFG parts. Nothing outright forbids use of conversion bits from other companies, 3D printing, sculpting, etc and plenty of those have been approved by TOs at every level. So long as the model is still "easily recognizable," a common restriction for wargames with specific models tied to specific statlines/cards/rules, which is admittedly a subjective metric.

2) Just because they aren't officially provided, doesn't mean they don't exist. I have a bunch of head swaps for my Rebel Troopers bought from a third party, and models of the crew of the Ghost from the Rebels cartoon for use as alternate models. Again, anything officially provided would have to be approved, likely slowing down an already slow process. Personally, I'd prefer time was spent getting authorization for a new unit rather than the optional shoulder pouches for Stormtroopers. Additionally, most 28mm WW2 gear or pouches match the Star Wars aesthetic perfectly since military surplus was used to make weapons and costume pieces.

3) And once again, I'm not saying the colour difference isn't obvious, I'm saying that the REASON for the colour difference isn't obvious. Different units of the same "name" (ie multiple Rebel Trooper Squads) are by the rules supposed to be differentiated in some way. A common way to differentiate them is by colour scheme, not necessarily JUST the band of the helmet or the rim of the base. As an example, one of the guys at my FLGS has one scout trooper squad painted in "Kashyyyk Camo" and another in "canon white." He did this to differentiate the two sniper teams on the field rather than place ID Tokens with them. Before I abandoned the idea in favour of greater speed and ease of repeatability, I had grand designs of basing the colour scheme of each squad off a different country's uniforms in WW2. I refer you to my last comment using the example of the Phase 1 clones, some people are differentiating the different squads by armour highlight colour. If I have a red squad, a blue squad, a green squad, and a purple squad, it is less obvious if the difference in colour is simply to differentiate squads OR because I want to field some of my Phase 1s with Phase 2 rules. As I also said, the human brain loves shortcuts, and outline is a common shortcut (part of the reasoning behind the "ship identification charts" used in WW2 were to match outline elements to identify a target).

Yes, I agree it isn't as readily customizable as 40k out of the box, and barring any dramatic change in the LFG, I highly doubt it EVER will be customizable to anywhere near that degree. LFG is concerned with keeping the look "consistent" not "providing the players with options." Personally, I think more of the players want to paint and build things that are "canon" rather than customize. In the early days of Legion, a number of people complained about the lack of aliens in the Rebel squads. I argued that the number of aliens in a given squad is entirely left to the players, between 3rd party head swaps and even something as simple as paint jobs. So far, Luke is the only human in my Rebel army between a handful of head swaps and a lot of "near humans" differentiated by skin tone, including a Pantoran "Leia." This game is more likely to attract players due to familiarity of the universe, not customization. The name "Star Wars" sells on it's own, without having to entice players in with customization options. The relative simplicity of the models is a plus as far as FFG is concerned, since it doesn't scare off as many people as the complicated builds in other miniatures games.

But I also think you are guilty of having blinders on a bit as well. You aren't acknowledging that the secondary market and the availability of personal 3D printers is taking care of the customization options that FFG either can't or won't provide. You seem to want FFG to provide you with all of these options, which I understand. Changing the rider on the Tauntaun would be much simpler with a provided second rider in the box. But if you really want to change the rider, either cobble one together using a Rebel Trooper torso, or find a third party source, beit an STL file or a listing on a site like shapeways.

14 hours ago, Rocmistro said:

I'm not exactly sure what you mean here...Hoth guys painted in <any color> still look like extremely well-bundled cold-weather dudes. Same for F1.4 and Taun-Taun riders. It really should be no problem to say: "The 2 units painted in tans? Those are regular rebel trooper. But the rebel trooper unit painted with Navy Blue jackets and carrying a COM93 instead of a Z6? Those are veterans." It really is not that difficult guys.

My response was more "How to explain Hoth guys in your non-Hoth army" than "Paint your Troopers different and say they're entirely different units"

If worse comes to worse, just paint the Hoth Guys in Desert colours and they fit in as Jheda Partizans.

Still Reb Vets, but they look less jarring.

2 hours ago, Indy_com said:

My response was more "How to explain Hoth guys in your non-Hoth army" than "Paint your Troopers different and say they're entirely different units"

If worse comes to worse, just paint the Hoth Guys in Desert colours and they fit in as Jheda Partizans.

Still Reb Vets, but they look less jarring.

That is true, and it is in fact what I've done. It still bugs me.

22 hours ago, Rocmistro said:

That is true, and it is in fact what I've done. It still bugs me.

Here's how I would approach replacing the Veteran minis given my current bits collection, and the bits I can find on shapeways with some links:

I'd start off with either the Rebel Trooper or Fleet Troops box. The Fleet Trooper has the advantage of ending up the MOST distinctive from the original unit used for the conversion, but I think both could be made distinctive enough to significantly reduce the likelihood of confusion.

Then, I'd remove the heads from either starting model, and the backpacks from the Rebel Troopers with a sharp knife if I decide to outright replace them.

I'd then attach either the backpacks I have leftover from my Warlord British Commandos, or I'd get the " Ancient Chaos Bucketheads and Gear " pack from Buckethead Bits on Shapeways, I'm slightly more inclined towards the Commando packs, partially since I already have them, because I think they fit the Rebel aesthetic a bit better, and are overflowing with gear. Backpacks from Imperial Guard Tempestus Scions could also work with some modification, but I think the backpacks from the Cadian and Catachan Heavy Weapons teams is the better option from 40k parts, due to the shovels and having less of a "power pack" look.

If I didn't decide to replace the backpacks, then I'd add more gear to them, shovels, picks, entrenching tools, grenades, etc. Anything to make the unit look like it is carrying more equipment than the standard Rebel Trooper and help break up the outline.

The Fleet troopers would need an arm swap (probably from the Veteran unit they are replacing) so they have rifles, both would need the heavy weapons swapped at least. This weapon swap is what makes the conversion starting with the Fleet Troopers more distinctive.

Now for heads: Here there are LOTS of options for making the unit look noticeably different from the starting model, while also giving a sense of them having spent a long time fighting.

Spare Clone Trooper helmets could indicate a group of defected clones fighting for the Rebellion, they may have lost their armour along the way, but they hung on to their helmets. Scout Trooper helmets, Imperial Officer Helmets, or Imperial Pilot Helmets from Mel Miniatures would also look pretty good, especially if painted in a blotchy camo pattern.

The Young Hunter Heads or Insurgent Starfighter heads from Mel Miniatures would be distinctive as well, since no other unit currently uses similar heads.

The Filthy Bucketheads from Buckethead Bits would also look interesting, and could probably be used on the normal Veterans to make it look more like protective environmental gear rather than winter gear.

A mixture of various Imperial and Clone helmets would also be visually striking, indicating to your opponent "Hey, something is different about this unit" and driving home the "spent a long time fighting" feel of the Veterans.

Personally, I'd try to avoid bare heads, even alien heads, since so many people use those to "spice up" their Rebel Trooper squads. One or two would probably be fine, so long as the rest of the unit has some kind of distinctive, unique headwear.

The main goal of all this work is to significantly alter the outline of the unit, to make the resulting models look distinctive when placed next to the other units in the army, give the appearance of soldiers who have been fighting for awhile, and have survived where other haven't. All while keeping within the aesthetics of Star Wars. The unit would look most striking if it is the ONLY converted unit in the army, or if only unit from Hoth are converted, since non of the Hoth units overlap in unit type (a Creature trooper, emplacement trooper, and trooper unit aren't likely to be confused for one another, especially if the radar dish and Tauntauns are still on their bases).

Now, I can't guarantee that a unit converted in this fashion would be approved by any TOs, but I think it is significantly more likely than what amounts to a palette swap.

On a related note Australia just had it’s biggest gaming event for the year (CanCon) and one player participating in the 40k event had one of their conversions knocked back due to it being confusing.

This player had

Unit A: Dire Avengers converted using Sylvaneth bits

Unit B: Dire Avengers converted using Dark Eldar warrior and Guardian bits

Unit C: Guardians built normally.

Unit B was rejected because it had used the Guardian helmets and weapons in the conversion and the judge panel (4-1) ruled that with the inclusion of Guardian units as well Unit B looked too similar and was thus confusing. The player argued that the shoulderpads were of a signifigant difference to easily tell the unit apart (maybe 2mm of plastic).

And this is from a community that often encourages heavily converting ones models. The thing about conversion is that they generally involve quite a bit of work above a simple arm swap.

The Wookiees LVO army was posted to Facebook, along with list.

https://m.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10218777393198695&id=1016242915&set=gm.821678398314687&source=57

List: here

Noticably, the list is very simple, with the rifle Wookiees standing in for Rebel Troopers only, no trying to figure out which corps unit it is. Additionally, all the models in the trooper units are modified with rifles so each model stands out as changed and different in a "fundamental" way (change of outline), so an opponent is going to know "this isn't a Wookiee unit."

6 hours ago, Caimheul1313 said:

The Wookiees LVO army was posted to Facebook, along with list.

https://m.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10218777393198695&id=1016242915&set=gm.821678398314687&source=57

Link is dead, unfortunately.

3 hours ago, Indy_com said:

Link is dead, unfortunately.

Might be a private group... Credit to LJ Pena for the photo: