17 minutes ago, Daeglan said:That does not mean the force is not involved in this one. that is you assumption. That does not make you correct. It just means you are assuming something.
He's mostly right though. Mechanically, they have nothing to do with the force, lending no additional credibility to the narrative fluff.
Narratively, they are rumored to have something to do with the force, which is really a take-it-or-leave-it proposition.
17 minutes ago, Daeglan said:That does not mean the force is not involved in this one. that is you assumption. That does not make you correct. It just means you are assuming something.
No, what it does mean is that the Force is not the definite source of those benefits, as @MB -Fr- claims.
8 minutes ago, Tramp Graphics said:No, what it does mean is that the Force is not the definite source of those benefits, as @MB -Fr- claims.
the Force may or may not be involved. No definitive answer is given. The rules dont say either way. They just say what the stats are. the source of those stats is never given. You assume it is not the force. The book does not actually say.
1 minute ago, Daeglan said:the Force may or may not be involved. No definitive answer is given. The rules dont say either way. They just say what the stats are. the source of those stats is never given. You assume it is not the force. The book does not actually say.
@MB -Fr- has said flat out that those bonuses were absolutely Force related. To quote:
On 3/10/2020 at 2:12 PM, MB -Fr- said:the text of the lucky blaster literally mentions its presence in the living force & there's no other explanation possible to explain its abilities
rant as much as you want about straigth bonii opposed to dependant on user force rating, the weapons tap in the force and the book makes it clear
(emphasis mine). He explicitly and repeatedly claimed that these weapons are , without a doubt, connected to the Force. That is the heart of our disagreement.
1 minute ago, Tramp Graphics said:@MB -Fr- has said flat out that those bonuses were absolutely Force related. To quote:
(emphasis mine). He explicitly and repeatedly claimed that these weapons are , without a doubt, connected to the Force. That is the heart of our disagreement.
uhhh No. He specifically said the Lucky blaster is. Why you are trying to apply this statement to every other weapon mentioned.
19 minutes ago, Daeglan said:uhhh No. He specifically said the Lucky blaster is. Why you are trying to apply this statement to every other weapon mentioned.
He said the same thing about the Arquebus too in other posts. The one I quoted above was just one example .
16 hours ago, Tramp Graphics said:He said the same thing about the Arquebus too in other posts. The one I quoted above was just one example .
I have been trying, for a while, to get it through your skull that it's not because they are flat bonii that they can't be due to the force in universe
I have been also saying, in multiple comments in this thread, that you accepting the mundane explanation was only your opinion when there was a force explanation too
But, you have been consistently denying that there is a force link because "it's only fluff text", upon which I noted that this was in the book about mystics so the other explanation was as much if not more likely
And you have consistently been trying to declare that your explanation was the true explanation because "it's just a flat bonus" (which has nothing to do with the matter imo), trying to deny that the force explanation may be valid at all (or in the case of the arquebus, not even mentioning it in the 1st place)
You're not the end-all of in universe lore & your opinion is just that, an opinion. That you don't want to believe it? Be my guest. Others may believe the force explanation
But fcs, stop trying to "I'm right it's mundane, others explanations are trash & you shouldn't believe the fluff over mechanics I interpret my way"
Edited by MB -Fr-On 3/13/2020 at 1:33 AM, MB -Fr- said:I have been trying, for a while, to get it through your skull that it's not because they are flat bonii that they can't be due to the force in universe
I have been also saying, in multiple comments in this thread, that you accepting the mundane explanation was only your opinion when there was a force explanation too
But, you have been consistently denying that there is a force link because "it's only fluff text", upon which I noted that this was in the book about mystics so the other explanation was as much if not more likely
And you have consistently been trying to declare that your explanation was the true explanation because "it's just a flat bonus" (which has nothing to do with the matter imo), trying to deny that the force explanation may be valid at all (or in the case of the arquebus, not even mentioning it in the 1st place)
You're not the end-all of in universe lore & your opinion is just that, an opinion. That you don't want to believe it? Be my guest. Others may believe the force explanation
But fcs, stop trying to "I'm right it's mundane, others explanations are trash & you shouldn't believe the fluff over mechanics I interpret my way"
Because mechanically it isn't. These two weapons do not grant a Force bonus to the user, nor do they rely upon the user's Force rating to grant their benefits. They each grant very mundane bonuses in the form of Boost dice or Pierce as per each weapon's individual description.
1 hour ago, Tramp Graphics said:Because mechanically it isn't. These two weapons do not grant a Force bonus to the user, nor do they rely upon the user's Force rating to grant their benefits. They each grant very mundane bonuses in the form of Boost dice or Pierce as per each weapon's individual description.
I give up trying to explain to you, not worth the headache
Edited by MB -Fr-11 hours ago, Tramp Graphics said:Because mechanically it isn't. These two weapons do not grant a Force bonus to the user, nor do they rely upon the user's Force rating to grant their benefits. They each grant very mundane bonuses in the form of Boost dice or Pierce as per each weapon's individual description.
Based on what? Can you explain where the stats come from? Last i checked it says the stats are y and no where in there does it say why. So the stats might have force involvement. They might not. You can claim no. But the rules say maybe yes maybe no. FFG was intentionally non specific.allowing either interpretation.
On 3/15/2020 at 3:55 AM, Daeglan said:Based on what? Can you explain where the stats come from? Last i checked it says the stats are y and no where in there does it say why. So the stats might have force involvement. They might not. You can claim no. But the rules say maybe yes maybe no. FFG was intentionally non specific.allowing either interpretation.
Every weapon with a clear Force enhancement either utilizes or requires a character's Force rating to grant its benefits. The Site-145 Replica Blaster requires the user to have a Force rating in order to even operate. The Heartwood Blaster grants Advantages equal to the user's Force rating at the cost of an equal amount of Strain. The Ashla Staff allows the user to add an additional Light Side Pip to his or her Force power check at the cost of three Strain. They all have a clear and specific Force enhancement. By contrast, The Arquebus grants Pierce at the cost of some Strain. This is something that is explicitly stated being a result of the weapon being especially suited to patient aiming. And that its particular benefits are easily explained by mundane reasons . While Vurk mystics may insist on their being a "deeper meaning", there is no empirical proof that there is anything "Force sensitive" about the weapon. And the game mechanics bear this out. The weapon simply grants Pierce equal to the amount of Strain suffered denoting the amount of time and effort the user put in to maximizing the effectiveness of his shot through exacting and long preparation time, careful aim, and more accurate calculations of windage through more observation. Likewise, the so-called "Lucky Blaster" only grants Boost dice, not a specific and qualtifiable Force benefit. It's benefit can be just as easily be attributed to the weapon simply having more accurate sights, a minutely straighter barrel, more finely tuned galven coils or prismatic crystal, or any one of numerous potential minute variations in manufacturing . Some products in a given line are simply better than normal, just as some aren't quite up to normal standards. Mechanically, however, they simply grant two Boost dice to an attack roll, nothing more, nothing inherently Force related . Ergo, neither the Lucky Blaster nor Arquebus can be definitively stated to be Force imbued weapons. Any "attunememt" is just as easily attributed to Superstition, unlike the Hearwood Blaster, Site-145 Replica Blaster, or Ashla Staff, which all have a definitive Force benefit.
9 minutes ago, Tramp Graphics said:Every weapon with a clear Force enhancement either utilizes or requires a character's Force rating to grant its benefits. The Site-145 Replica Blaster requires the user to have a Force rating in order to even operate. The Heartwood Blaster grants Advantages equal to the user's Force rating at the cost of an equal amount of Strain. The Ashla Staff allows the user to add an additional Light Side Pip to his or her Force power check at the cost of three Strain. They all have a clear and specific Force enhancement. By contrast, The Arquebus grants Pierce at the cost of some Strain. This is something that is explicitly stated being a result of the weapon being especially suited to patient aiming. And that its particular benefits are easily explained by mundane reasons . While Vurk mystics may insist on their being a "deeper meaning", there is no empirical proof that there is anything "Force sensitive" about the weapon. And the game mechanics bear this out. The weapon simply grants Pierce equal to the amount of Strain suffered denoting the amount of time and effort the user put in to maximizing the effectiveness of his shot through exacting and long preparation time, careful aim, and more accurate calculations of windage through more observation. Likewise, the so-called "Lucky Blaster" only grants Boost dice, not a specific and qualtifiable Force benefit. It's benefit can be just as easily be attributed to the weapon simply having more accurate sights, a minutely straighter barrel, more finely tuned galven coils or prismatic crystal, or any one of numerous potential minute variations in manufacturing . Some products in a given line are simply better than normal, just as some aren't quite up to normal standards. Mechanically, however, they simply grant two Boost dice to an attack roll, nothing more, nothing inherently Force related . Ergo, neither the Lucky Blaster nor Arquebus can be definitively stated to be Force imbued weapons. Any "attunememt" is just as easily attributed to Superstition, unlike the Hearwood Blaster, Site-145 Replica Blaster, or Ashla Staff, which all have a definitive Force benefit.
That does not mean this one does not have minor effects. Again you are.making assumptions where clearly the designers wanted both answers to be possibly correct.
Edited by DaeglanJust now, Daeglan said:That does not mean this one does not mace minor effects. Again you ate.making assumptions where clearly the designers wanted both answers to be possible correct.
The key word there is " possibly ", not " definitively ". That is my point. These two weapons are not definitively Force attuned.
4 minutes ago, Tramp Graphics said:Every weapon with a clear Force enhancement either utilizes or requires a character's Force rating to grant its benefits.
The error you are making is that you don't accept that items that are intrisically empowered by the Force and can provided supernatural benefits to Muggles exist. Like a bunch of the stuff you can make with Alchemy from Unlimited Power, and indeed the Lucky Blaster and Arquebus.
1 minute ago, Tramp Graphics said:The key word there is " possibly ", not " definitively ". That is my point. These two weapons are not definitively Force attuned.
Except you keep saying they are definately not. And no that is not accurate.
26 minutes ago, Daeglan said:Except you keep saying they are definately not. And no that is not accurate.
I said mechanically , they're not. The game mechanics are mundane benefits. Boost cice and Pierce, not a "Force Die" boost.
26 minutes ago, micheldebruyn said:The error you are making is that you don't accept that items that are intrisically empowered by the Force and can provided supernatural benefits to Muggles exist. Like a bunch of the stuff you can make with Alchemy from Unlimited Power, and indeed the Lucky Blaster and Arquebus.
NO, I don't. The stuff you make from the Alchemy crafting rules require the creator to roll Force dice and spend Force pips as part of the crafting of the item. Thus, there is a clear and definitive Force attunement to the item in question. This is not the case with either the Lucky Blaster or Arquebus.
1 minute ago, Tramp Graphics said:NO, I don't. The stuff you make from the Alchemy crafting rules require the creator to roll Force dice and spend Force pips as part of the crafting of the item. Thus, there is a clear and definitive Force attunement to the item in question. This is not the case with either the Lucky Blaster or Arquebus.
Lucky Blasters aren't made. They can't be crafted They just kind of spontaneously come into being. They're just regular blasters that through no discernable technical way perform better. You know, like a Kyber crystal.
Just now, Tramp Graphics said:I said mechanically , they're not. The game mechanics are mundane benefits. Boost cice and Pierce, not a "Force Die" boost.
NO, I don't. The stuff you make from the Alchemy crafting rules require the creator to roll Force dice and spend Force pips as part of the crafting of the item. Thus, there is a clear and definitive Force attunement to the item in question. This is not the case with either the Lucky Blaster or Arquebus.
Well since we dont have crafting rules for these specific blasters we dont actually know that. Also the Dev's clearly want either option to be valid. You keep trying to claim your response is the only valid one.
9 minutes ago, micheldebruyn said:Lucky Blasters aren't made. They can't be crafted They just kind of spontaneously come into being. They're just regular blasters that through no discernable technical way perform better. You know, like a Kyber crystal.
the benefits from a Lucky Blaster are just as easily explained by random variations in manufacturing quality . There is nothing inherently Force related to them, unlike with Alchemy.
9 minutes ago, Daeglan said:Well since we dont have crafting rules for these specific blasters we dont actually know that. Also the Dev's clearly want either option to be valid. You keep trying to claim your response is the only valid one.
No. I simply said that these weapons are not definitively proven to be Force attuned, that their benefits are mechanically mundane, and that there are mundane explanations for those benefits. By contrast, @MB -Fr- maintains that these weapons are unequivocally Force imbued. And this is assuredly not the case. So, while there might be some bit of the Force at work here. There is nothing that proves that it is any more so than the Force is at work in general .
11 minutes ago, Tramp Graphics said:the benefits from a Lucky Blaster are just as easily explained by random variations in manufacturing quality . There is nothing inherently Force related to them, unlike with Alchemy.
No. I simply said that these weapons are not definitively proven to be Force attuned, that their benefits are mechanically mundane, and that there are mundane explanations for those benefits. By contrast, @MB -Fr- maintains that these weapons are unequivocally Force imbued. And this is assuredly not the case. So, while there might be some bit of the Force at work here. There is nothing that proves that it is any more so than the Force is at work in general .
I noted that the text mentions both explanations in the case of the arquebus & no other explanation at all in the text for the lucky blaster. which you both ignore
you're the one that is hung up on "tHesE ArEn't fOrcE SenSItiVe bEcAusE ThEy aRe FlAt BOnIi" which makes little sense, ignoring all the force sensitive suggestions of the fluff because you've decided they are mundane and try to convince everyone they are
I did not ignore them. I addressed both specifically and have done so repeatedly .
7 hours ago, Tramp Graphics said:I did not ignore them. I addressed both specifically and have done so repeatedly .
Yeah by claiming thenonly option is that they must not use the force. When clearly the force being involved is a possibility.
On 3/18/2020 at 12:25 AM, Daeglan said:Yeah by claiming thenonly option is that they must not use the force. When clearly the force being involved is a possibility.
I dont think @Tramp Graphics is saying that at all.
He's saying mechanically they dont have force involvement. Which is true. But he's accepting that narratively the force might be involved somehow.
How is that hard to understand?
30 minutes ago, CloudyLemonade92 said:I dont think @Tramp Graphics is saying that at all.
He's saying mechanically they dont have force involvement. Which is true. But he's accepting that narratively the force might be involved somehow.
How is that hard to understand?
no, reread his theories about the arquebus & lucky blaster in his various comments, he's totally denying the force explanation
Edited by MB -Fr-9 hours ago, CloudyLemonade92 said:I dont think @Tramp Graphics is saying that at all.
He's saying mechanically they dont have force involvement. Which is true. But he's accepting that narratively the force might be involved somehow.
How is that hard to understand?
8 hours ago, MB -Fr- said:no, reread his theories about the arquebus & lucky blaster in his various comments, he's totally denying the force explanation
@Tramp Graphics is notorious for not being able to separate narrative fluff from mechanics. While he admits that there's an allowed force explanation but is claiming it's a BS explanation because mechanically it doesn't depend on force rating.