3 hours ago, Daeglan said:Then your gm is not very creative. Seeimg as how disarming rules do exist and npcs can do them. So there is no reason it couldnt happen. And if i were a gm and anplayer got on i totally would validate that choice by having a nemesis shoot them with there own weapon.
People who disarm you overwhelmingly already are armed. People who can disarm you without weapons generally aren't interested in guns anyway.
11 hours ago, Tramp Graphics said:The book makes no distinction either way . All it does is provide both beliefs. Mechanically , however, the benefit is purely mundane . The same is true with the Lucky blaster. The mechanical benefit it grants is a mundane one, not one that explicitly relies on a character being Force sensitive. The Heartwood blaster and Site 145 Replica blaster specifically rely upon the user having a Force Rating. Neither the Lucky Blaster, nor Arquebus do so.
the fact is that the blaster op is looking for doesn't exist ("move along, move along") in current content. the whole point was to give him alternatives that exist before some homebrew
the lucky blaster specifically mentions the living force in its description to explain its abilities. the weapon section text specifically mentions that all the weapons are force belief related if not directly force related... in a book that is specifically about the mystics, those most in tune with the force. so yes despite what you declare, that implies that all the abilities described are tied to the force, not mundane
wether you and the skeptics believe or not in the force as the source of these abilities is kind of irrelevant at this point
On 3/8/2020 at 5:59 AM, MB -Fr- said:the fact is that the blaster op is looking for doesn't exist ("move along, move along") in current content. the whole point was to give him alternatives that exist before some homebrew
the lucky blaster specifically mentions the living force in its description to explain its abilities. the weapon section text specifically mentions that all the weapons are force belief related if not directly force related... in a book that is specifically about the mystics, those most in tune with the force. so yes despite what you declare, that implies that all the abilities described are tied to the force, not mundane
wether you and the skeptics believe or not in the force as the source of these abilities is kind of irrelevant at this point
Thew key word in that second sentence is " Belief ". Only one, the Heartwood Blaster, is actually directly Force related. That's my point. Neither the Lucky Blaster nor Arquebus are actually directly Force related . The Lucky Blaster, is just that, "lucky". The Arquebus is precise. The Lucky Blaster grants Boost dice; the Arquebus grants Pierce at the cost of Strain . Neither use Force dice. The Heartwood Blaster is the only ranged weapon in that book which even tangentally taps into the Force, and it only does so by allowing you to add a number of automatic Advantages equal to your Force rating to the attack roll at the cost of an equal number of Strain.
And, for the record, I'm not a "skeptic". If you've looked at my characters on SWSheets, Most of them are Force users/Jedi. The Force is very real in Star Wars. But that does not mean that every weapon that is claimed to potentially be connected to the Force actually is .
8 minutes ago, Tramp Graphics said:Thew key word in that second sentence is " Belief ". Only one, the Heartwood Blaster, is actually directly Force related. That's my point. Neither the Lucky Blaster nor Arquebus are actually directly Force related . The Lucky Blaster, is just that, "lucky". The Arquebus is precise. The Lucky Blaster grants Boost dice; the Arquebus grants Pierce at the cost of Strain . Neither use Force dice. The Heartwood Blaster is the only ranged weapon in that book which even tangentally taps into the Force, and it only does so by allowing you to add a number of automatic Advantages equal to your Force rating to the attack roll at the cost of an equal number of Strain.
And, for the record, I'm not a "skeptic". If you've looked at my characters on SWSheets, Most of them are Force users/Jedi. The Force is very real in Star Wars. But that does not mean that every weapon that is claimed to potentially be connected to the Force actually is .
the text of the lucky blaster literally mentions its presence in the living force & there's no other explanation possible to explain its abilities
rant as much as you want about straigth bonii opposed to dependant on user force rating, the weapons tap in the force and the book makes it clear
2 minutes ago, MB -Fr- said:the text of the lucky blaster literally mentions its presence in the living force & there's no other explanation possible to explain its abilities
rant as much as you want about straigth bonii opposed to dependant on user force rating, the weapons tap in the force and the book makes it clear
No. It does not, especially with the Arquebus. And mechanically , they grant no Force bonus. IF the OP wants a blaster with a definitive Mechanical Force advantage, there are only two choices, the Heartwood Blaster and the Site-145 Replica blaster. Those are the only two with an actual direct Force connection that mechanically uses the Force in there operation, or grants a specific benefit only to those who are Force sensitive. The Lucky Blaster does not grant a Force bonus. It grants Boost dice . The Arquebus does not grant a Force bonus. It Grants Pierce at the cost of Strain. Neither weapon provide any special bonus to a Force user . Anyone can take advantage of them.
5 minutes ago, Tramp Graphics said:No. It does not, especially with the Arquebus. And mechanically , they grant no Force bonus. IF the OP wants a blaster with a definitive Mechanical Force advantage, there are only two choices, the Heartwood Blaster and the Site-145 Replica blaster. Those are the only two with an actual direct Force connection that mechanically uses the Force in there operation, or grants a specific benefit only to those who are Force sensitive. The Lucky Blaster does not grant a Force bonus. It grants Boost dice . The Arquebus does not grant a Force bonus. It Grants Pierce at the cost of Strain. Neither weapon provide any special bonus to a Force user . Anyone can take advantage of them.
which has absolutely nothing to do with them being able to do what they are able to do due to the force in universe
Edited by MB -Fr-Just now, MB -Fr- said:which has absolutely nothing to do with them being able to do what they are able to do due to the force in universe
It has everything to do with it. The game mechanics are a direct quantifiable application of what the "in universe" abilities are.
The Lucky Blaster does not do what the OP wants. All it does is grant a pair of Boost dice (Not Force dice). The Arquebus does not grant what the OP wants. All it does is grant Pierce at the cost of Strain. The Heartwood Blaster and Site-145 blaster are the only two weapons whcih even come close to granting the OP what he's asking for. Both grant specific Force benefits only to Force users . They are explicitly connected to the Force. One grants Advantages equal to the user's Force rating while the other requires active use of the Force to even operate. Those are his only options. The other two weapons do not use the Force (I.E. require a Force rating, or use of Force Dice ) to grant their benefits.
Just now, Tramp Graphics said:It has everything to do with it. The game mechanics are a direct quantifiable application of what the "in universe" abilities are.
The Lucky Blaster does not do what the OP wants. All it does is grant a pair of Boost dice (Not Force dice). The Arquebus does not grant what the OP wants. All it does is grant Pierce at the cost of Strain. The Heartwood Blaster and Site-145 blaster are the only two weapons whcih even come close to granting the OP what he's asking for. Both grant specific Force benefits only to Force users . They are explicitly connected to the Force. One grants Advantages equal to the user's Force rating while the other requires active use of the Force to even operate. Those are his only options. The other two weapons do not use the Force (I.E. require a Force rating, or use of Force Dice ) to grant their benefits.
you sound like a broken record
you said it yourself earlier: the blaster op was looking for doesn't exist
I said it earlier: the point was to give him alternative official weapons that are tied to the force, these are, wether they give flat bonii or FR dependant bonii or abilities
Just now, MB -Fr- said:you sound like a broken record
you said it yourself earlier: the blaster op was looking for doesn't exist
I said it earlier: the point was to give him alternative official weapons that are tied to the force, these are, wether they give flat bonii or FR dependant bonii or abilities
Yes, and the only two alternatives are the Heartwood Blaster and the Site-145 Replica Blaster . Those are the only two which are definitively and uncontrovertably tied to the Force since both rely upon a Force rating to grant their benefit.
Just now, Tramp Graphics said:Yes, and the only two alternatives are the Heartwood Blaster and the Site-145 Replica Blaster . Those are the only two which are definitively and uncontrovertably tied to the Force since both rely upon a Force rating to grant their benefit.
no they aren't the only ones, because the text of the other weapons explains their flat bonii by the force in universe
your definition of weapons tied to the force is ridiculously restrictive, dependent on the user while the universe acknowledges force sensitive objects
1 hour ago, MB -Fr- said:no they aren't the only ones, because the text of the other weapons explains their flat bonii by the force in universe
your definition of weapons tied to the force is ridiculously restrictive, dependent on the user while the universe acknowledges force sensitive objects
The "fluff" text, and even then at least one of them specifically has been specifically stated in the same text to have a perfectly mundane explanation for its benefits. Only two ranged weapons in the entire game actually have a definitive mechanical benefit that is strictly tied to the Force , specifically to a user's Force rating . And it is the Force Rating which is the mechanical measurement of the Force in this game, not Boost dice, not Strain; it is the user's Force rating . It is the Force Dice .
4 minutes ago, Tramp Graphics said:The "fluff" text, and even then at least one of them specifically has been specifically stated in the same text to have a perfectly mundane explanation for its benefits. Only two ranged weapons in the entire game actually have a definitive mechanical benefit that is strictly tied to the Force , specifically to a user's Force rating . And it is the Force Rating which is the mechanical measurement of the Force in this game, not Boost dice, not Strain; it is the user's Force rating . It is the Force Dice .
like I said, broken record
the text of the arquebus also mention the force explanation which you choose to ignore
the lucky blaster text doesn't even offer a mundane explanation
you have the right to your opinion they are mundane, the book heavily suggests they are NOT. and that the abilities you demm mundane AREN'T
in short: it's only your opinion
Okay, the OP (if he hasn't run away screaming) now has plenty of information to make up his mind. Can you two stop now? This seems entirely unnecessary.
For the record, you are both broken records.
Just now, MB -Fr- said:like I said, broken record
the text of the arquebus also mention the force explanation which you choose to ignore
the lucky blaster text doesn't even offer a mundane explanation
you have the right to your opinion they are mundane, the book heavily suggests they are NOT. and that the abilities you demm mundane AREN'T
in short: it's only your opinion
I did not choose to ignore it. I specifically addressed it.
Just now, Tramp Graphics said:I did not choose to ignore it. I specifically addressed it.
you addressed it by ignoring it. deciding "no the text is wrong it's mundane"
it's only your opinion
3 minutes ago, MB -Fr- said:you addressed it by ignoring it. deciding "no the text is wrong it's mundane"
it's only your opinion
No. The text says that there is a perfectly mundane reason for the benefits that thee Arquebus provides, but that Vurk Mystics believe it to have a deeper meaning, and that Vurk Sharpshooters trust in the Force. To quote:
QuoteAccurate at extreme distances, the weapon is well suited to patient aiming . A Vurk soldier's most devastating shots are the ones arranged with the most precision . Skeptics have long since explained this away in mundane ways . Longer prep time leads to steadier hands . Calculations of wind resistance are more accurate with more observation . Despite this , Vurk sages insist on a deeper meaning . The best sharpshooters never care about the odds. They trust in the will of the Force, and the Force guides their hands.
That is the key here. Vurks believe it to be the Force in action, but it is not an imperical fact that the Force actually has anything at all to do with it. It cannot be definitively proven that it is the Force at work. It is simply their personal belief .
So, no, I did not ignore it. I addressed it directly .
And the mechanics support the mundane over the mystic. By contrast, both the Heartwood Blaster and the Site-145 Replica Blaster have specific verifiable and quantifiable connections to the Force. The Heartwood Blaster grants a specific advantage that can only be taken advantage of by a Force user . The Site-145 Blaster can only be fired by a Force user , since the trigger mechanism is completely internal and requires the use of the Force to activate. These two weapons rely upon the Force explicitly and quantifiably . The Arquebus does not , and, technically , neither does the Lucky Blaster. The Lucky Blaster just grants a couple of Boost dice, and does so for anyone , regardless of their Force sensitivity. That does not make the weapon "Force sensitive".
2 minutes ago, Tramp Graphics said:No. The text says that there is a perfectly mundane reason for the benefits that thee Arquebus provides, but that Vurk Mystics believe it to have a deeper meaning, and that Vurk Sharpshooters trust in the Force. To quote:
That is the key here. Vurks believe it to be the Force in action, but it is not an imperical fact that the Force actually has anything at all to do with it. It cannot be definitively proven that it is the Force at work. It is simply their personal belief .
So, no, I did not ignore it. I addressed it directly .
And the mechanics support the mundane over the mystic. By contrast, both the Heartwood Blaster and the Site-145 Replica Blaster have specific verifiable and quantifiable connections to the Force. The Heartwood Blaster grants a specific advantage that can only be taken advantage of by a Force user . The Site-145 Blaster can only be fired by a Force user , since the trigger mechanism is completely internal and requires the use of the Force to activate. These two weapons rely upon the Force explicitly and quantifiably . The Arquebus does not , and, technically , neither does the Lucky Blaster. The Lucky Blaster just grants a couple of Boost dice, and does so for anyone , regardless of their Force sensitivity. That does not make the weapon "Force sensitive".
the expanded universe upon which this game is partially based had several force sensitive objects that mundanes could use, try again
you chose the mundane explanation over the force explanation, that's still only your opinion
10 minutes ago, MB -Fr- said:the expanded universe upon which this game is partially based had several force sensitive objects that mundanes could use, try again
you chose the mundane explanation over the force explanation, that's still only your opinion
The book chose the Mundane explanation and simply said that Vurk mystics and sharpshooters believe it to have a deeper meaning, nothing more.
Yes, the old EU did have a couple of "Force artifacts " which were usable by non-Force users. However, most of these artifacts actually granted these users the ability to tap into the Force directly and use Force abilities as if they were Force sensitive themselves . In other words, they had a verified quantifiable connection to the Force . Neither the Lucky Blaster nor Arquebus have a verified and quantifiable connection to the Force. At best, it is anecdotal . People believe them to have a connection to the Force. That is not the same thing as actually having one. And mechanically , their bonuses are completely mundane .
2 minutes ago, Tramp Graphics said:The book chose the Mundane explanation and simply said that Vurk mystics and sharpshooters believe it to have a deeper meaning, nothing more.
Yes, the old EU did have a couple of "Force artifacts " which were usable by non-Force users. However, most of these artifacts actually granted these users the ability to tap into the Force directly and use Force abilities as if they were Force sensitive themselves . In other words, they had a verified quantifiable connection to the Force . Neither the Lucky Blaster nor Arquebus have a verified and quantifiable connection to the Force. At best, it is anecdotal . People believe them to have a connection to the Force. That is not the same thing as actually having one. And mechanically , their bonuses are completely mundane .
the book chose nothing, it provides both explanations, you chose the mundane one
as for the lucky blaster: "To the trained Mystic. the Force's presence is obvious~the blaster almost hums with
it. Even before dedicating themselves to the Force, a Mystic might be able to hear it." so you are blatantly lying here
you're free to believe the mundane explanations, the force related ones exist and given this is a section on "weaponry that resonates with the Force" in a book that is about these particular force users "There are no Force users with a deeper connection to the Force than Mystics", the force explanation is far more likely
now if you'll excuse me, I have better things to do than trying to argue with someone that doesn't want to consider he's wrong and repeats the same dubious arguments like a broken record
good night
On 3/10/2020 at 5:07 PM, MB -Fr- said:the book chose nothing, it provides both explanations, you chose the mundane one
as for the lucky blaster: "To the trained Mystic. the Force's presence is obvious~the blaster almost hums with
it. Even before dedicating themselves to the Force, a Mystic might be able to hear it." so you are blatantly lying hereyou're free to believe the mundane explanations, the force related ones exist and given this is a section on "weaponry that resonates with the Force" in a book that is about these particular force users "There are no Force users with a deeper connection to the Force than Mystics", the force explanation is far more likely
now if you'll excuse me, I have better things to do than trying to argue with someone that doesn't want to consider he's wrong and repeats the same dubious arguments like a broken record
good night
And many mystics get so wrapped up in "The Force" that they see connections where there is none, at least not in the way they believe. As Yoda Said, The Force is "technically" in everything and connects everything together. But that does not make everything "Force Sensitive". You are reading too much into the fluff and not enough into the actual game mechanics .
53 minutes ago, Tramp Graphics said:And many mystics get so wrapped up in "The Force" that they see connections where there is none, at least not in the way they believe. As Yoda Said, The Force is "technically" in everything and connects everything together. But that does not make everything "Force Sensitive". You are reading too much into the fluff and not enough into the actual game mechanics .
You do realize Tramp they intentionally gave both options so that the player group could decide? You get that right? It is just like force push can be accomplished using either Move or Bind. both are valid.
23 hours ago, Daeglan said:You do realize Tramp they intentionally gave both options so that the player group could decide? You get that right? It is just like force push can be accomplished using either Move or Bind. both are valid.
Except that the game mechanics don't support that viewpoint. Not only that, but @MB -Fr- is saying flat out that those weapons absolutely are Force powered. That is the issue. The text, and, especially, the mechanics do not support that.
13 minutes ago, Tramp Graphics said:Except that the game mechanics don't support that viewpoint. Not only that, but @MB -Fr- is saying flat out that those weapons absolutely are Force powered. That is the issue. The text, and, especially, the mechanics do not support that.
That would be you assuming what the game mechanics mean. All the mechanics are is a bunch of numbers. No where does it say where those numbers come from.
8 minutes ago, Daeglan said:That would be you assuming what the game mechanics mean. All the mechanics are is a bunch of numbers. No where does it say where those numbers come from.
Both the Heartwood Blaster and Site-145 Replica Blaster are dependent upon a Force rating to grant their specfici benefits. The Heartwood blaster grants Advantages equal to the user's Force rating at the cost of an equal number of Strain. The Site-145 Replica Blaster requires the user to have a Force rating to even use it. Those are game mechanics that specifically make those weapons Force weapons. The Lucky Blaster grants two Boost dice . And it does so regardless of the user's Force sensitivity. There is no direct Force dependency in the mechanics of that weapon. The Arquebus grants Pierce equal to Strain suffered. Once again, no Force Sensitivity requirement or connection within the mechanics. Ergo, the mechanics do not establish a specific Force connection nor requirement within those two weapons. Thus, they are not inherently "Force Imbued" weapons. They are weapons that are simply believed to be "touched" by the Force from a cultural standpoint.
Edited by Tramp Graphics10 minutes ago, Tramp Graphics said:Both the Heartwood Blaster and Site-145 Replica Blaster are dependent upon a Force rating to grant their specfici benefits. The Heartwood blaster grants Advantages equal to the user's Force rating at the cost of an equal number of Strain. The Site-145 Replica Blaster requires the user to have a Force rating to even use it. Those are game mechanics that specifically make those weapons Force weapons. The Lucky Blaster grants two Boost dice . And it does so regardless of the user's Force sensitivity. There is no direct Force dependency in the mechanics of that weapon. The Arquebus grants Pierce equal to Strain suffered. Once again, no Force Sensitivity requirement or connection within the mechanics. Ergo, the mechanics do not establish a specific Force connection nor requirement within those two weapons. Thus, they are not inherently "Force Imbued" weapons. They are weapons that are simply believed to be "touched" by the Force from a cultural standpoint.
That does not mean the force is not involved in this one. that is you assumption. That does not make you correct. It just means you are assuming something.