My player's characters have stolen an Imperial Raider-II Corvette for Bail Organa's nascent rebellion. It will be tasked with conducting deep reconnaissance and supporting operational intelligence missions. Its support vessels will consist of 1 GR-75 Combat Retrofit, and 3 regular GR-75 cargo vessels capable of establishing temporary remote operating bases. I was going to have the Raider carry a modified version of the A-Wing trainer called the RZ1-SR. These would be equipped with whisperthrust engines, nightshadow coating, and an improved sensor package, but no missile tubes. A secondary role for these fighters would be clandestine insertion and retrieval couriers, infiltrators, intelligence officers, lone pathfinders, etc. All of the sources I have found on the Imperial Raider say that it has a hangar with a complement of "at least 2" TIE fighters. That is not... specific.

• Would 4 of these modified A-Wings be unreasonable?
• Could you employ fighter racks similar to modern parking lifts?

A serious deficiency of this potential "task-force" is the inability to deploy combat search and rescue / special reconnaissance squads from space .

• Could you externally dock a 1-2 U-Wings to the Raider?

Or... Could you modify an additional GR-75 with its own hangar to deploy the U-Wings?

Based on what we see in Battlefront II, I'd guess 4 A-Wings at an absolute max. It seems to only have one hangar, if it was two, I'd say definitely 4 if there were 2 hangars.

Parking lifts: Oh, almost certainly. Especially with A-wings. That would be a very interesting method. You could probably hold 4 fairly easily like that, though launching would be delayed somewhat (and sabotage/Trheat/Despair could prevent the top fighters from launching because they can't be lowered 😈 ).

I don't see any good spots for docking ships like that to the Raider, but I think a modified GR-75 would get the job done.

7 hours ago, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

Based on what we see in Battlefront II, I'd guess 4 A-Wings at an absolute max. It seems to only have one hangar, if it was two, I'd say definitely 4 if there were 2 hangars.

Parking lifts: Oh, almost certainly. Especially with A-wings. That would be a very interesting method. You could probably hold 4 fairly easily like that, though launching would be delayed somewhat (and sabotage/Trheat/Despair could prevent the top fighters from launching because they can't be lowered 😈 ).

I don't see any good spots for docking ships like that to the Raider, but I think a modified GR-75 would get the job done.

Thanks for your thoughts!

Honestly, an Arquitens would have been a better choice for a "one stop shop" for this mission profile.

Here are my notes:

1 Raider-II Class Corvette. 4 RZ1-SR in “stacking lifts.” 1 infiltrator-trained operational intelligence detail.

1 GR-75 Combat Retrofit. Serves as a the primary “ops center” and “mission control” for ground operations

1 GR-75 Pocket Carrier. 2 U-Wings. 2 combat search and rescue and special reconnaissance trained commando units.

4 GR-75 transports. Loaded to establish temporary remote operations bases.

Note: a naval trooper platoon is split between the 4 transports for base security, etc.

Now I need to brainstorm a task-force name and call-signs!

I don't see why you couldn't have the Raider-II retrofitted to accommodate four A-Wings instead of two TIEs. After all, it's not like Bail freaking Organa doesn't have access to top-shelf shipyards that can do the retrofit far more efficiently than anything a group of PCs on their own could accomplish.

As for the U-Wings, I don't think you could get away with having them externally mount (I assume that's what you meant by "dock with") to the Raider-II,m but modding a GR-75 to accommodate a pair of those should certainly be viable, and likely still have room for additional small support shuttlecraft.

What you've got listed in your notes is certainly viable, though you could possibly roll the first two GR-75s into a single craft, as those ships are fairly big (90 meters according to Wookieepedia), and I could see Bail not wanting this "fleet" to get too large. Heck, you could probably drop two of the regular transports as I suspect most of the bases that they'd be used to set up wouldn't be overly laden with materials. Remember that the Hoth base was for the central/high command of the entire Rebel Alliance, so they were going to have a lot of troops and materials that would need to be flown in and then evacuated. It's probably more a Legends thing at this point, but most Rebel bases were fairly minimal and were designed to be abandoned in a hurry with the Rebels reluctantly accepting that if they had to evac, most of the gear and supplies at the base were write-offs, and that best they could usually do was purge the databanks and destroy as much of the military hardware that couldn't be easily taken with the evacuating Rebels.

True, a group of 3 GR-75s wouldn't be much of a threat to even a single Imperial Star Destroyer, but then if there's only three such ships, they're more likely to slip under the Empire's notice or be dismissed as a small convoy, where a larger number of such massive transport ships might draw more (unwanted) attention.

4 hours ago, Donovan Morningfire said:

I don't see why you couldn't have the Raider-II retrofitted to accommodate four A-Wings instead of two TIEs. After all, it's not like Bail freaking Organa doesn't have access to top-shelf shipyards that can do the retrofit far more efficiently than anything a group of PCs on their own could accomplish.

As for the U-Wings, I don't think you could get away with having them externally mount (I assume that's what you meant by "dock with") to the Raider-II,m but modding a GR-75 to accommodate a pair of those should certainly be viable, and likely still have room for additional small support shuttlecraft.

What you've got listed in your notes is certainly viable, though you could possibly roll the first two GR-75s into a single craft, as those ships are fairly big (90 meters according to Wookieepedia), and I could see Bail not wanting this "fleet" to get too large. Heck, you could probably drop two of the regular transports as I suspect most of the bases that they'd be used to set up wouldn't be overly laden with materials. Remember that the Hoth base was for the central/high command of the entire Rebel Alliance, so they were going to have a lot of troops and materials that would need to be flown in and then evacuated. It's probably more a Legends thing at this point, but most Rebel bases were fairly minimal and were designed to be abandoned in a hurry with the Rebels reluctantly accepting that if they had to evac, most of the gear and supplies at the base were write-offs, and that best they could usually do was purge the databanks and destroy as much of the military hardware that couldn't be easily taken with the evacuating Rebels.

True, a group of 3 GR-75s wouldn't be much of a threat to even a single Imperial Star Destroyer, but then if there's only three such ships, they're more likely to slip under the Empire's notice or be dismissed as a small convoy, where a larger number of such massive transport ships might draw more (unwanted) attention.

Thanks for your feedback. I think I will combine the GR-75 combat refit and pocket carrier into a single ship. And, the operating bases they would be setting up would mostly be temporary staging areas for commandos or a few fighters if they need a planet-side staging area or have to split their resources so 2 regular transports would probably suffice. This task-force's activities should be 90% clandestine and 10% covert. If they are engaging a Star Destroyer they have reached mission failure.

Of course, a pair of Gozanti carriers with modified harnesses could deploy 4 A-Wings and 2 U-Wings, and a C-ROC could serve as a heavily armed logistics ship for establishing remote operating bases. But, hey, they aren't as tres sexy as a Raider.

1 hour ago, Vondy said:

Of course, a pair of Gozanti carriers with modified harnesses could deploy 4 A-Wings and 2 U-Wings, and a C-ROC could serve as a heavily armed logistics ship for establishing remote operating bases. But, hey, they aren't as tres sexy as a Raider.

Plus, the Raider can be used to help further the covert/clandestine, since as an Imperial ship (and assuming the PCs have the proper Imperial codes), they'd have a reason to be in area of suspected insurgent activity.

Just now, Donovan Morningfire said:

Plus, the Raider can be used to help further the covert/clandestine, since as an Imperial ship (and assuming the PCs have the proper Imperial codes), they'd have a reason to be in area of suspected insurgent activity.

Very true.

Alrighty,

Here's my opinion*.

Based on what we can see from the model there is a launch bay on the starboard side and it does look like it could house 2 stock TIE/ln fighters. (ln or In).

But by comparison A-Wings are tiny. So taking the "cube space" of the existing hanger I could easily imagine having 2 A-Wings side by side in a ready to launch orientation that previously housed the first TIE fighter. The second space could be reconfigured with a two deck series of storage lifts, If you got creative and had a decent engineer, I could believe that housing an additional 6 A-Wings is possible but that would be very tight. And it wouldn't leave a lot of space for maintenance and or staging.

THAT said, you could also go check out pictures of US Aircraft Carriers with their entire flight inventory set out atop the flight deck. Note that ALL of those fighters are normally stored in the hanger deck and brought topside for flight operations. And flight operations in a Zero G environment with tractor beams to assist with docking, that minimizes the space needed for flight operations.

I don't have a model for this ship yet so I can't study it intently. But I would guess that there has to be a couple of standard docking ports that you could dock other ships with standard docking ports. Sadly the U-Wing doesn't have one of those . . . . A YT-2400 should be able to do so, though.

Another approach would be to install "boat bays." Basically a purpose built launch tube designed for a specific ship (or ships). Boat bays take less space than a traditional launch bay, but due to the customization, only one ship type can be installed. And based on my limited study, I could see you mounting 5 or 6 A-Wing Launch Bays (again due to their diminutive size). The back side of the former hanger would be used for maintenance for the A-Wings and only 1 or 2 A-Wings could occupy the maintenance area at a time.

* I am a Subject Matter Expert (SME) on my opinion.

On 12/7/2019 at 5:19 PM, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

Based on what we see in Battlefront II, I'd guess 4 A-Wings at an absolute max. It seems to only have one hangar, if it was two, I'd say definitely 4 if there were 2 hangars.

The Raider must be capable of handling at least 3 TIE fighters. In the second mission on Endor, Iden, Hask, and Del all used TIE's to escape Endor after the destruction of the Death Star II. Their intention was to head back to the Corvus, and while that plan changed, it is reasonable to assume that they used TIE's to get on planet to begin with, or used a shuttle from the Corvus (it is incredibly unlikely that given the stealth nature of the situation at Endor they would have landed the Corvus itself to unload them, as this would attract a lot of attention) all of which indicates a larger hangar capacity than two TIE's. Moreover, as Iden, Hask and Del were all pilots, it seems likely that the ship would contain capacity for all of them to be deployed together at least on occasion.

In either case, though, 4 A-Wings are an easy carry for a single hangar, as TIE's are hung in racks typically, and not usually parked on deck. This means you can have a second deck above the first and account for two additional A-Wings, which are designed for decks and not racks.

On 12/9/2019 at 10:32 AM, Mark Caliber said:

Based on what we can see from the model there is a launch bay on the starboard side and it does look like it could house 2 stock TIE/ln fighters. (ln or In).

But by comparison A-Wings are tiny. So taking the "cube space" of the existing hanger I could easily imagine having 2 A-Wings side by side in a ready to launch orientation that previously housed the first TIE fighter. The second space could be reconfigured with a two deck series of storage lifts, If you got creative and had a decent engineer, I could believe that housing an additional 6 A-Wings is possible but that would be very tight. And it wouldn't leave a lot of space for maintenance and or staging.

8 A-Wings would be a squadron! Talk about a pocket carrier....

Could be fun, though, and it would be one heck of a surprise for a larger ship that wasn't expecting it.

On 12/9/2019 at 10:32 AM, Mark Caliber said:

THAT said, you could also go check out pictures of US Aircraft Carriers with their entire flight inventory set out atop the flight deck. Note that ALL of those fighters are normally stored in the hanger deck and brought topside for flight operations. And flight operations in a Zero G environment with tractor beams to assist with docking, that minimizes the space needed for flight operations.

As a trivia point, the first six Essex-class carriers WWII aircraft actually had hangar catapults that shot scout planes right out the side of the ship!

On 12/9/2019 at 10:32 AM, Mark Caliber said:

I don't have a model for this ship yet so I can't study it intently. But I would guess that there has to be a couple of standard docking ports that you could dock other ships with standard docking ports. Sadly the U-Wing doesn't have one of those . . . . A YT-2400 should be able to do so, though.

Yeah, without hand-waiving the hangar size there aren't a lot of good options for small unit transports that could stage from the Raider. The U-Wing is 28 meters long with its wings fixed-forward. A Tie transport might fit inside, but at that point, why aren't these rebels also flying stolen Tie fighters of some sort to keep the theme?

On 12/9/2019 at 10:32 AM, Mark Caliber said:

Another approach would be to install "boat bays." Basically a purpose built launch tube designed for a specific ship (or ships). Boat bays take less space than a traditional launch bay, but due to the customization, only one ship type can be installed. And based on my limited study, I could see you mounting 5 or 6 A-Wing Launch Bays (again due to their diminutive size). The back side of the former hanger would be used for maintenance for the A-Wings and only 1 or 2 A-Wings could occupy the maintenance area at a time.

Now I'm thinking Battlestar Galactica style launch-tubes!

2 hours ago, Vondy said:

Now I'm thinking Battlestar Galactica style launch-tubes!

Yes. Indeed.

Well, since we're talking about hangar retrofits....

What about fitting a CR70 Charger with a modular hangar-pod with two A-Wings in racks?

5 minutes ago, Vondy said:

Well, since we're talking about hangar retrofits....

What about fitting a CR70 Charger with a modular hangar-pod with two A-Wings in racks?

That'd look pretty odd, but it'd work. I've drawn up scaled deckplans (that I happen to have right at my finger tips) so I can tell that there is enough room. Maintenance equipment would be a bit of a problem though.

It would be quite cramped. It would be most efficient to have a hangar door on just one side and have them launch the same direction.

4 minutes ago, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

That'd look pretty odd, but it'd work. I've drawn up scaled deckplans (that I happen to have right at my finger tips) so I can tell that there is enough room. Maintenance equipment would be a bit of a problem though.

It would be quite cramped. It would be most efficient to have a hangar door on just one side and have them launch the same direction.

Thanks. I was trying to get a good image for scaling to figure that part out. My thinking is that this would be for clandestine special reconnaissance and intelligence support operations and that it would be for specific short-term deployments (maintenance performed elsewhere). The pod would have to be engineered to look like the other standard pods. In my minds eye I was envisioning the pod decompressing and then the undercarriage of the pod spreading open to drop the fighters out. That might not be the best option.

A little late to the party, but...

You can actually find the official stats of the Raider-II in "Friends like these" p. 79. In the FFG version. By those rules, the Raider-II does NOT have a hangar bay as standard, and you have to use the rules for modifying the ship, in order to get it. The thing comes with 2 Hard Points for modifications. The Retrofit Hangar takes up both Hard Points, and grants you a total storage space of 5 silhouette, which can take an additional 5 modifications each adding +1 to the silhouette storage capacity, thus taking it up to a max. of 10 silhouette, which is calculated as the total sum of silhouette worth of vehicles stored in the hangar. Additionally the modified ship can only store ships up to a size of 2 silhouette smaller than itself. Thus the silhouette 5 Raider-II can only store up to silhouette 3 ships.

As the rules are written, a Raider-II can thus store up to a max. of 10 silhouette worth of max. sized sil. 3 ships. So you could store i.e. 3 sil. 3 fighters and a sil. 1 vehicle in a maxed out Retrofit Hangar.

The A-wing's a sil 3 fighter, so you RAW you wouldn't be storring 4 of them in a Raider-II.

But anything's possible with the blessing of the GM 😉

One of my players asked "what ships did it have on board when we stole it?"

I had decided it had a pair of TIE Defenders and a TIE Reaper (drop ship) on board.

I'm not sure on the silhouette for the Reaper, but I felt comfortable hand-waving it.

They said, "Perfect. Let's just go with that."

On 1/8/2020 at 3:58 PM, Vondy said:

One of my players asked "what ships did it have on board when we stole it?"

I had decided it had a pair of TIE Defenders and a TIE Reaper (drop ship) on board.

I'm not sure on the silhouette for the Reaper, but I felt comfortable hand-waving it.

They said, "Perfect. Let's just go with that."

You are a generous god. A-Wings AND Defenders. 😮

27 minutes ago, Doppelganger said:

You are a generous god. A-Wings AND Defenders. 😮

Well, no. They were trying to figure out how to deal with cramming A-Wings into it and then said, wait a minute, why bother? Let's just use the Defenders.

1 minute ago, Vondy said:

Well, no. They were trying to figure out how to deal with cramming A-Wings into it and then said, wait a minute, why bother? Let's just use the Defenders.

Ah, misread it then.

Actually, if you want a mini carrier/mobile base, I would go with an Acclamator class assault ship. (heck even a Lucrehulk..)

1 hour ago, RuusMarev said:

Actually, if you want a mini carrier/mobile base, I would go with an Acclamator class assault ship. (heck even a Lucrehulk..)

They don't have a crew of 700 at hand to man it with!

Maybe an Arquitens, but that's not what they stole....

Just now, Vondy said:

They don't have a crew of 700 at hand to man it with!

Maybe an Arquitens, but that's not what they stole....

There should be hundreds of B1's everywhere! and they are very friendly too!

8 minutes ago, RuusMarev said:

There should be hundreds of B1's everywhere! and they are very friendly too!

Roger! Roger!

A little late but this video on a different ship highlights 6 A-wings docked in a compact lift style at around 3:50.