Since they locked the first TROS thread, here is a new one.

What even prompted the closure of the last. It's not even uncivil.

Continuing where we left off...

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I was assuming some clone BS after they killed Snoke. Him getting iced was just another occurrence well after I had clocked out. Palp coming back does just stink of pandering to get back in the good graces.

I suspect Abrams had to have a little, "well...****...now what?" moment since Johnson very quickly killed off the Big Bad he was trying to build up leaving Abrams hanging in the wind, so him being the competent but safe director we have seen in TFA , he reached out for some more old dependable fan service (not that kind...) and brought back Papa Palp somehow to be the Big Bad, probably via a clone or something similar.

I mean, who doesn't love The Senate?

4 hours ago, kris40k said:

Continuing where we left off...

I suspect Abrams had to have a little, "well...****...now what?" moment since Johnson very quickly killed off the Big Bad he was trying to build up leaving Abrams hanging in the wind, so him being the competent but safe director we have seen in TFA , he reached out for some more old dependable fan service (not that kind...) and brought back Papa Palp somehow to be the Big Bad, probably via a clone or something similar.

I mean, who doesn't love The Senate?

Abrams, competent.... yeah, no. He's Uwe Boll with a bigger SFX budget.

8 hours ago, kris40k said:

Continuing where we left off...

I suspect Abrams had to have a little, "well...****...now what?" moment since Johnson very quickly killed off the Big Bad he was trying to build up leaving Abrams hanging in the wind, so him being the competent but safe director we have seen in TFA , he reached out for some more old dependable fan service (not that kind...) and brought back Papa Palp somehow to be the Big Bad, probably via a clone or something similar.

I mean, who doesn't love The Senate?

Depends how much the leaks are to be trusted but that's not far off. Besides, are you saying you wouldn't want to see Palpy in a banana hammock?> Now that's some service.

9 hours ago, kris40k said:

Continuing where we left off...

I suspect Abrams had to have a little, "well...****...now what?" moment since Johnson very quickly killed off the Big Bad he was trying to build up

I don't think Snoke was supposed to be the Big Bad of the trilogy. It's definetly what we all expected (me included) from TFA going toward a final showdown similar to Episode 6 with Luke (Rey), Vader (Kylo) and Palpatine (Snoke), but I don't think that it was the real idea.

Adam Driver said in an interview that when they signed for their roles, they have been given a general idea of where their characters were going, so that they could build toward that. It is quite possible that it was decided from the start that Kylo Ren would kill Snoke to take his place as Supreme Leader, that it is part of his character journey into darkness. So Snoke was not there to be the big bad of the trilogy, but a milestone in Kylo Ren story. The only thing that was probably not decided was the 'how' he would kill him.

But quite frankly, from my personnal opinion, planned or not, Kylo Ren killing Snoke is one of the best moment and best thing to happen in the Sequel trilogy. I personally didn't like that it was going toward a retelling of Episode 6, and I was glad to see a dark side apprentice finally killing his master for real instead of just talking about it to look evil. Kylo Ren did what his grand father was never able to do, he killed his master to take his place. I remember telling myself a big 'yessss!' when he killed him.

19 minutes ago, Red Castle said:

But quite frankly, from my personnal opinion, planned or not, Kylo Ren killing Snoke is one of the best moment and best thing to happen in the Sequel trilogy. I personally didn't like that it was going toward a retelling of Episode 6, and I was glad to see a dark side apprentice finally killing his master for real instead of just talking about it to look evil. Kylo Ren did what his grand father was never able to do, he killed his master to take his place. I remember telling myself a big 'yessss!' when he killed him.

WAT, did they change ROTJ? Does Luke somehow throw Palpatine down the shaft now?

1 minute ago, Jo Jo said:

WAT, did they change ROTJ? Does Luke somehow throw Palpatine down the shaft now?

When Vader kills Palpatine, it is to save his son, not to take his place. Here is the difference, the intent is not the same.

Got it... I was a bit confused there.

However, Vader would have likely overthrown Palp if Luke said, "Sure Pop! Lets kill that wrinkly old fart." while they were discussing it on Endor.

19 minutes ago, Jo Jo said:

Got it... I was a bit confused there.

However, Vader would have likely overthrown Palp if Luke said, "Sure Pop! Lets kill that wrinkly old fart." while they were discussing it on Endor.

Pretty sure he would have done it, but in the end, he didn't. And that's what I meant when I said that it was nice to see a dark apprentice finally killing his master instead of just talking about it.

We have Dooku that tried to seduce Kenobi to ultimatly try to overthrow Palpatine; we then have Anakin trying to seduce Padme to join him to overthrow Palpatine and then later Vader trying to convince Luke to join him to kill the Emperor. But in all those case, we never got a resolution. That's why when Kylo did it in Episode 8, I was like 'yes! finally one of them really did it!'.

And I love how it was done, and how each party had a different interpretation of the same 'vision'.

Rey saw that Ben would help her defeat Snoke and interpreted it as if he would come back to the light.

Kylo saw that Rey would fight at his side to kill Snoke and his guard and interpreted it as if she would join him as the new ruler of the galaxy.

And Snoke saw that Kylo would kill his true enemy, only he thought that his true enemy was Rey not him.

Same event perceived from 3 different point of view, as if interpreting the futur and the events to come is up to each person point of view and not something clear set in stone. Loved it.

3 hours ago, Red Castle said:

I don't think Snoke was supposed to be the Big Bad of the trilogy. It's definetly what we all expected (me included) from TFA going toward a final showdown similar to Episode 6 with Luke (Rey), Vader (Kylo) and Palpatine (Snoke), but I don't think that it was the real idea.

Adam Driver said in an interview that when they signed for their roles, they have been given a general idea of where their characters were going, so that they could build toward that. It is quite possible that it was decided from the start that Kylo Ren would kill Snoke to take his place as Supreme Leader, that it is part of his character journey into darkness. So Snoke was not there to be the big bad of the trilogy, but a milestone in Kylo Ren story. The only thing that was probably not decided was the 'how' he would kill him.

But quite frankly, from my personnal opinion, planned or not, Kylo Ren killing Snoke is one of the best moment and best thing to happen in the Sequel trilogy. I personally didn't like that it was going toward a retelling of Episode 6, and I was glad to see a dark side apprentice finally killing his master for real instead of just talking about it to look evil. Kylo Ren did what his grand father was never able to do, he killed his master to take his place. I remember telling myself a big 'yessss!' when he killed him.

That doesn't jive with what Rian Johnson said when he took on the movie. He stated that he was surprised because he wasn't given any direction for the film, and it was made it clear to him that there was no trilogy plan for him to try to stick to. He was given a great sway to do whatever he wanted to, however he tried to collaborate with the Story Group from time to time.

Abrams has also been tactful about saying that the story of VIII went different directions from what he had set up in VII and that he has had to react a good bit to what Johnson had done.

Its pretty clear that Johnson figuratively and in the case of the meeting of Rey and Luke literally threw aside the set-up that Abrams left for him at the end of TFA .

8 hours ago, Cerebrawl said:

Abrams, competent.... yeah, no. He's Uwe Boll with a bigger SFX budget.

Abrams is competent. Not great, but he can make a decent popcorn flick that after two hours you can leave the theater saying, "that was fun."

Not, "that was great, " or "that was the best movie of the year!"

"That was fun."

Competent.

Your comparison to Uwe Boll is hyperbole. Uwe Boll is a cancer to cinema and a literal scam artist who revels in the hate he gets.

Rian Johnson isn't a bad director either. Brick in my opinion, is one of my top films ever made. I've watched that movie so many times and still love it. But, he's not a Star Wars type of director.

Its like Martin Scorsese. Scorsese, without argument, is one of the greatest film makers that has lived. His filmography is a list of some of the best cinema has to offer...

... and if he made a Star Wars movie it would be a complete trainwreck of a film. Its not the kind of source material, genre, and audience that he works with. Same thing with Johnson.

2 hours ago, kris40k said:

Your comparison to Uwe Boll is hyperbole.

I'll take In the Name of the King; A Dungeon Siege Tale over The Farce Awakens any day. Dead or Alive vs Transformers is about even.

2 hours ago, kris40k said:

Rian Johnson isn't a bad director either.

There's a reason we call him Ruin Johnson.

Whew made it a whole three comments before the toxicity came back.

8 minutes ago, TasteTheRainbow said:

Whew made it a whole three comments before the toxicity came back.

The toxicity was involved in the making of the films, the KK and Ruin have let the cat out of the bag that they were destroying it on purpose. Backlash for the deliberate destruction of a beloved franchise isn't "toxicity", it's a reaction to it.

37 minutes ago, TasteTheRainbow said:

Whew made it a whole three comments before the toxicity came back.

You are getting "toxicity" and "passion" confused with one another.

9 minutes ago, Captain Lucas said:

You are getting "toxicity" and "passion" confused with one another.

They aren’t mutually exclusive.

1 hour ago, Cerebrawl said:

I'll take In the Name of the King; A Dungeon Siege Tale over The Farce Awakens any day. Dead or Alive vs Transformers is about even.

No one likes In the Name of the King.

and Transformers is Michael Bay

1 hour ago, Cerebrawl said:

There's a reason we call him Ruin Johnson.

Cause you think its clever , its childish.

If you think Brick and Breaking Bad's "Ozymandias" were bad, which was one of the most lauded episodes ever years before he had anything to do with SW, you are lying to yourself to make yourself feel better about your irrational hatred towards one guy who made a bad movie.

He has talent, he just was a wrong choice for this series.

28 minutes ago, kris40k said:

No one likes In the Name of the King.

and Transformers is Michael Bay

Cause you think its clever , its childish.

If you think Brick and Breaking Bad's "Ozymandias" were bad, which was one of the most lauded episodes ever years before he had anything to do with SW, you are lying to yourself to make yourself feel better about your irrational hatred towards one guy who made a bad movie.

He has talent, he just was a wrong choice for this series.

My bad on Bay vs JJ off the top of my head. I still liked In the Name of the King more than I did The Farce Awakens.

As for Ruin, no it's because it's apt. As for his talent, it's overshadowed by his identity politics. Brick was 14 years ago, Ozymandias 6.

However he's been talking about wanting to make movies that half the audience hates since 2003.

4 hours ago, kris40k said:

That doesn't jive with what Rian Johnson said when he took on the movie. He stated that he was surprised because he wasn't given any direction for the film, and it was made it clear to him that there was no trilogy plan for him to try to stick to. He was given a great sway to do whatever he wanted to, however he tried to collaborate with the Story Group from time to time.

Abrams has also been tactful about saying that the story of VIII went different directions from what he had set up in VII and that he has had to react a good bit to what Johnson had done.

Its pretty clear that Johnson figuratively and in the case of the meeting of Rey and Luke literally threw aside the set-up that Abrams left for him at the end of TFA .

And yet, that's still what Adam Driver said in the interview https://deadline.com/2019/01/blackkklansman-adam-driver-spike-lee-interview-awards-news-ku-klux-klan-star-wars-1202533782/

At the end of the day, there is different naratives about what happens backstage that unless you were there yourself, it's difficult to know what is really true and what not. And it's not like Star Wars coverage is not full of false rumors (Kathleen Kennedy getting fired!) That's why I don't take this Adam Driver interview for cash either and said things like 'quite possible' and also said at the end my opinion about it in the event that it was in fact not true or not what he meant.

I'll say it again. Even if it was not planned from the beginning or not what JJ had in mind, so what? I thought it was a good twist of the story instead of Snoke being Palpatine 2.0. Not following the set-up doesn't necessarily means making it worst. And if we are to believe the article you posted, it's not like he didn't consult the story-group either, he asked for their permission before taking a decision.

And let's not forget that the biggest twist in the history of Star Wars was not even plan at first and was included while writing Episode 5 itself, not prior... and it gave us one of the main theme of the subsequent epsiode. Things can change while writing a trilogy.

https://babylonbee.com/news/rise-of-skywalker-to-introduce-first-lesbian-at-at

😂

Finn himself -

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“The Force Awakens I think was the beginning of something quite solid, The Last Jedi if I’m being honest I’d say that was feeling a bit iffy for me. I didn’t necessarily agree with a lot of the choices in that and that’s something that I spoke to Mark [Hamill] a lot about and we had conversations about it. And it was hard for all of us, because we were separated.

I guess the original Star Wars films there was much more of a trio feel where it was essentially about Luke’s journey, but Han and Leia there was a strong dynamic, which I think, I don’t know how quickly we’re going to be able to establish that longterm dynamic with Nine. But if it’s exploring that dynamic, then that would be cool.”

*Smug face*

Wait, there are people who hated The Last Jedi?

Why is this the first I'm hearing about this

EDIT - apparently I needed to include this

18 hours ago, Maui. said:

Wait, there are people who hated The Last Jedi?

Why is this the first I'm hearing about this

Because you've been living under a rock?

19 hours ago, Maui. said:

Wait, there are people who hated The Last Jedi?

Why is this the first I'm hearing about this

Star Wars good. Consume Product. Star Wars good.