Can you wear Reflect body glove under armor and stack soack from both? It says that it can be wear under cloth and from what I know armor counts as clothing, yes? What is RAW rulling here?

1 hour ago, Benny89 said:

Can you wear Reflect body glove under armor and stack soack from both? It says that it can be wear under cloth and from what I know armor counts as clothing, yes? What is RAW rulling here?

RAW is that you can only benefit from a single set of armor. The devs (Sam Stewart in particular) has said that while you can wear multiple sets of armor, you only get the mechanical benefit of one of them.

So yes, your PC could wear a Reflec body glove underneath a set of heavy clothing, but you'd only get the mechanical effects (soak, defense, special traits) of one of them (presumably you'd go with the Reflect body glove in this instance).

1 hour ago, Donovan Morningfire said:

RAW is that you can only benefit from a single set of armor. The devs (Sam Stewart in particular) has said that while you can wear multiple sets of armor, you only get the mechanical benefit of one of them.

So yes, your PC could wear a Reflec body glove underneath a set of heavy clothing, but you'd only get the mechanical effects (soak, defense, special traits) of one of them (presumably you'd go with the Reflect body glove in this instance).

Dang :(. Thanks for clarification. Looks like Kiirium coating + Superior Quality are my best bets of stacking more soak for my character on his gear. And Armor Master.

You can always homebrew it so that defense and soak stack. That's what we do in our campaigns.

24 minutes ago, Aggressor97 said:

You can always homebrew it so that defense and soak stack. That's what we do in our campaigns.

To be clear, you are saying that you take the best stat of both, right?

I think that makes sense, and maybe allowing for stacking of special effects, but what I would change is that for each additional set of armor, the amount of Encumbrance reduced is decreased by 1, and (in general, exceptions would exist) since you wear the lighter armor on the inside, you end up with Laminate armor, which has an Encumbrance of 4, contributing 2 to your Encumbrance rather than 1.

2 hours ago, Benny89 said:

Dang :(. Thanks for clarification. Looks like Kiirium coating + Superior Quality are my best bets of stacking more soak for my character on his gear. And Armor Master.

Well, thing to remember is that it's the intent of the designers that combat in this game is meant to be dangerous, and that getting a soak value above a 6 is fairly uncommon, and getting above an 8 requires a very specific and dedicated character build to accomplish. This way, there's rarely times when the PCs will wade into a combat without worry for the consequences.

It's a very different design philosophy than say your average d20 system ( especially the 3.X iteration) where there's a myriad of ways to push your Armor Class to the point that most low-end opponents simply can't hit you in the first place.

17 minutes ago, Donovan Morningfire said:

getting above an 8 requires a very specific and dedicated character build to accomplish.

It's a very different design philosophy than say your average d20 system ( especially the 3.X iteration) where there's a myriad of ways to push your Armor Class to the point that most low-end opponents simply can't hit you in the first place.

Depends on DnD system. In 5e you need very specific build to stack AC. It was way easier in 3.0 and 3.5 system, that is true. In 5e it's not that easty to reach AC beyond 21 if you don't know what you are doing.

In SW it's not that hard, it's just you need good knowledge about system, gear and specializations to optimize for getting high soak. Everything is scattered around different books sadly... Plus for most of those you need credits or very good mechanic. For example you can easly start with Soak 5 as range character (brawn 3 + any 2 soak armor). Then you need to focus on getting Armor Master (6), getting Superior Quality mod (7), Cyber Arm (8), Kiirium coating (9), Enduring x1 (10), Enduring x2 (11), Implant Armor (12). So In theory you can realisticaly get soak 9-12 for Brawn 3 character if you have skilled mechanic (best Modder) in party.

Easiest to get are Armor Master, Cyber Arm and Implant Armor. Also Superior mod if you have skilled mechanic in party. You can quite fast get 8-9 Soak.

My plan is first focus on my firepower as character and then work my way towards maximizing my Soak and Defense.

3 hours ago, Benny89 said:

Depends on DnD system. In 5e you need very specific build to stack AC. It was way easier in 3.0 and 3.5 system, that is true. In 5e it's not that easty to reach AC beyond 21 if you don't know what you are doing.

In SW it's not that hard, it's just you need good knowledge about system, gear and specializations to optimize for getting high soak. Everything is scattered around different books sadly... Plus for most of those you need credits or very good mechanic. For example you can easly start with Soak 5 as range character (brawn 3 + any 2 soak armor). Then you need to focus on getting Armor Master (6), getting Superior Quality mod (7), Cyber Arm (8), Kiirium coating (9), Enduring x1 (10), Enduring x2 (11), Implant Armor (12). So In theory you can realisticaly get soak 9-12 for Brawn 3 character if you have skilled mechanic (best Modder) in party.

Easiest to get are Armor Master, Cyber Arm and Implant Armor. Also Superior mod if you have skilled mechanic in party. You can quite fast get 8-9 Soak.

My plan is first focus on my firepower as character and then work my way towards maximizing my Soak and Defense.

Superior isn't a mod, it't an attachment. As such, no roll necessary. Therefore, anyone who can afford the attachment can add it to his or her armor.

3 hours ago, Tramp Graphics said:

Superior isn't a mod, it't an attachment. As such, no roll necessary. Therefore, anyone who can afford the attachment can add it to his or her armor.

Thanks for clarification :). Can you craft one though?

1 minute ago, Benny89 said:

Thanks for clarification :). Can you craft one though?

Not sure. There aren't any specific crafting rules for crafting attachments as of yet.

23 hours ago, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

To be clear, you are saying that you take the best stat of both, right?

I think that makes sense, and maybe allowing for stacking of special effects, but what I would change is that for each additional set of armor, the amount of Encumbrance reduced is decreased by 1, and (in general, exceptions would exist) since you wear the lighter armor on the inside, you end up with Laminate armor, which has an Encumbrance of 4, contributing 2 to your Encumbrance rather than 1.

The way I run it you take 3 enc off the total enc of all worn enc.

Just now, EliasWindrider said:

The way I run it you take 3 enc off the total enc of all worn enc.

My issue with that is that the weight is still dispersed across your body, so it doesn't encumber you as much.

23 hours ago, Benny89 said:

Depends on DnD system. In 5e you need very specific build to stack AC. It was way easier in 3.0 and 3.5 system, that is true. In 5e it's not that easty to reach AC beyond 21 if you don't know what you are doing.

In SW it's not that hard, it's just you need good knowledge about system, gear and specializations to optimize for getting high soak. Everything is scattered around different books sadly... Plus for most of those you need credits or very good mechanic. For example you can easly start with Soak 5 as range character (brawn 3 + any 2 soak armor). Then you need to focus on getting Armor Master (6), getting Superior Quality mod (7), Cyber Arm (8), Kiirium coating (9), Enduring x1 (10), Enduring x2 (11), Implant Armor (12). So In theory you can realisticaly get soak 9-12 for Brawn 3 character if you have skilled mechanic (best Modder) in party.

Easiest to get are Armor Master, Cyber Arm and Implant Armor. Also Superior mod if you have skilled mechanic in party. You can quite fast get 8-9 Soak.

My plan is first focus on my firepower as character and then work my way towards maximizing my Soak and Defense.

Imho soak ABOVE 6 is cheese (possibly excepting a Mandalorians beskar armor, because of the lore aspect)

1 minute ago, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

My issue with that is that the weight is still dispersed across your body, so it doesn't encumber you as much.

Layering armor is essentially combining several sets into 1 set, and the max you can reduce 1 set is 3 enc. There are mods (I think jury rig)/attachment's like superior that can reduce it further.

16 minutes ago, EliasWindrider said:

Imho soak ABOVE 6 is cheese (possibly excepting a Mandalorians beskar armor, because of the lore aspect)

Yeah, in the Mando campaign I'm running right now (everybody's got Armor Master because they all got the Death Watch tree [even though they aren't DW, since it is just a name and the tree makes sense for Mandos]) the Soak for the characters with Beskar is 5, 6, 6, 6, and 7. I'm anticipating some increases, though probably not higher than 8, and that's for the Marauder who is currently at 7 with one rank of Enduring.

8 minutes ago, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

My issue with that is that the weight is still dispersed across your body, so it doesn't encumber you as much.

Have you ever tried wearing multiple sets of armor that were never designed to be worn together?

Granted, this system was never meant to be simulationest from the start, so the armor rules are written to reflect that in the setting we don't see people bundled under several layers of armor, if they're wearing armor at all (beyond heavy or at best armored clothing).

It depends on what sorts of armor you are talking about. Some, I wouldn't even say you can wear together (Padded Armor and Heavy Battle Armor, for example). However, in the case of wearing something like the body glove (which is not something I am familiar with, but am presuming has only 1 or 2 Encumbrance) I could certainly see someone putting on Padded Armor or other, heavier, armors on on top of it.

Which is akin to wearing a leather jerkin (which is generally useless as armor in spite of what Hollywood wants folks to believe) under full breastplate and expecting the leather armor to provide any sort of defensive benefit to the wearer.

In terms of traditional armor, the purposes of wearing a gambeson (padded/quilted armor) under a set of plate mail wasn't necessarily for added protector against damage, but to make the armor more comfortable to wear for prolonged periods of time.

It depends on the properties of the armor. If what you are putting on under your armor negates certain ill effects (cold, radiation, whatever) putting something on top of it wouldn't make a difference (except potentially in some edge cases, I don't know), and if it is made to disperse energy, it might provide an additional effect. There are different ways of negating damage.

1 hour ago, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

It depends on the properties of the armor. If what you are putting on under your armor negates certain ill effects (cold, radiation, whatever) putting something on top of it wouldn't make a difference (except potentially in some edge cases, I don't know), and if it is made to disperse energy, it might provide an additional effect. There are different ways of negating damage.

Translation: Being a munchkin. Got it.

2 hours ago, EliasWindrider said:

Imho soak ABOVE 6 is cheese (possibly excepting a Mandalorians beskar armor, because of the lore aspect)

Above 6 cheese? Well, then I guess I will be nothing less than Limburger

37 minutes ago, Donovan Morningfire said:

Translation: Being a munchkin. Got it.

Um... No?

It's just what I think makes sense. I usually play as a GM, and this is simply something I would consider allowing. It's got nothing to do with wanting to "win" the game. I probably wouldn't for balance reasons, except for possibly the bit about certain special effects (protection from radiation, cold, etc.) this is just talking over the concept in theory and it would always have to be adjudicated on a case-by-case basis anyway.

3 hours ago, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

It depends on what sorts of armor you are talking about. Some, I wouldn't even say you can wear together (Padded Armor and Heavy Battle Armor, for example). However, in the case of wearing something like the body glove (which is not something I am familiar with, but am presuming has only 1 or 2 Encumbrance) I could certainly see someone putting on Padded Armor or other, heavier, armors on on top of it.

3 hours ago, Donovan Morningfire said:

Which is akin to wearing a leather jerkin (which is generally useless as armor in spite of what Hollywood wants folks to believe) under full breastplate and expecting the leather armor to provide any sort of defensive benefit to the wearer.

In terms of traditional armor, the purposes of wearing a gambeson (padded/quilted armor) under a set of plate mail wasn't necessarily for added protector against damage, but to make the armor more comfortable to wear for prolonged periods of time.

Or akin to a gambeson , which was a form of cloth padded armor, that was very effective in its own right, but was also worn routinely under mail and even plate armor as additional padding and to prevent chafing.

14 minutes ago, Tramp Graphics said:

Or akin to a gambeson , which was a form of cloth padded armor, that was very effective in its own right, but was also worn routinely under mail and even plate armor as additional padding and to prevent chafing.

The two together were much more bulky than either would be separately. Hence why most GMs have adopted a stack the encumbrance and subtract 3 house rule for where it makes sense to wear two suits. @P-47 Thunderbolt seems to be advocating for taking 3 encumbrance off of each.

Just now, Ahrimon said:

@P-47 Thunderbolt seems to be advocating for taking 3 encumbrance off of each.

I could go either way, honestly, but I'm sort of splitting the difference, only subtracting 2 from the second piece.