The tournament regulations say

"Players cannot modify minis or use bases to significantly alter their size, height, or shape . The marshal is responsible for determining the legality of any miniature modifications. Players that have made more than minor alterations should check with the marshal before an event to determine if their mini or official terrain is legal. The marshal at a Relaxed event will likely be more flexible than at a Formal event when determining a mini’s legality, while the marshal may allow the least flexibility at Premier events."

How does that fit in with models like the AT-ST, which don't have a designated height? I've seen some weird AS-STs



and even more that were just built a little higher due to the walking pose... (for instance one I pulled off google)




Would building an AT-ST with it's legs straight up (to gain height) or squatted down (to lower height) be considered modifying the mini? If so, where does a TO draw the line for tournament validity?

You'd have to ask that particular TO. I think as long as the pose looks relatively normal you're good to go. Keep in mind that if it can see more/less stuff, then more/less stuff can see it. Being smaller or larger is not inherently an advantage.

Where a TO draws the line depends on where that TO feels the line should be drawn.

And, as far as I know, there hasn't been any official ruling on limitations for how one poses their AT-ST. Probably because there are pros and cons for making a model taller, and for making one shorter.

18 minutes ago, Lochlan said:

Where a TO draws the line depends on where that TO feels the line should be drawn.

And, as far as I know, there hasn't been any official ruling on limitations for how one poses their AT-ST. Probably because there are pros and cons for making a model taller, and for making one shorter.

20 minutes ago, arnoldrew said:

You'd have to ask that particular TO. I think as long as the pose looks relatively normal you're good to go. Keep in mind that if it can see more/less stuff, then more/less stuff can see it. Being smaller or larger is not inherently an advantage.

That's tough. In this case I'm going to be the TO. I don't expect to see an AT-ST list at a prime event but I just wanted to know if there was a precedence for disqualifying an AT-St that wasn't technically modified but built to max height....

We had a call at a friendly game a few weeks back, I honestly had no idea which way to rule it.

fixed post

22 hours ago, Darth Sanguis said:

fixed post

A most technical rule of thumb, from someone who went through the 40K TO wars on the subject:

If it’s a pose you could put the model in “out of the kit” without cutting or pinning the components, it’s best ruled legal, no matter how ridiculous.

The moment you are adding, cutting, changing, modifying or reinforcing something to MAKE IT POSSIBLE, you’re more likely crossing the line.

6 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:

A most technical rule of thumb, from someone who went through the 40K TO wars on the subject:

If it’s a pose you could put the model in “out of the kit” without cutting or pinning the components, it’s best ruled legal, no matter how ridiculous.

The moment you are adding, cutting, changing, modifying or reinforcing something to MAKE IT POSSIBLE, you’re more likely crossing the line.

That's what I ended up ruling because he hadn't modified the kit.

Though @arnoldrew 's point about it not being an advantage is pretty good too.

Turns out the players were doing the attack steps wrong. Measuring both LoS and range from the unit leader then adding other applicable weapons instead of only measuring range from the leader and LoS from each individual mini. They were under the impression that because the unit leader couldn't see the At-St (being up against a wall) but the At-St could see some of the minis in the back of the unit that the unit was unable to attack the at-st. Which isn't the case.

How would you rule a customization to a model like Dooku? I plan to change his lightsaber arm to the salute pose he gives Yoda before the duel in Episode II. It will definitely make him taller, but line of sight is still drawn from the top of the mini's head, so it's more of a disadvantage, no?

9 hours ago, Mokoshkana said:

How would you rule a customization to a model like Dooku? I plan to change his lightsaber arm to the salute pose he gives Yoda before the duel in Episode II. It will definitely make him taller, but line of sight is still drawn from the top of the mini's head, so it's more of a disadvantage, no?

Definitely not a major alteration. Like you said, if it's head is at the same height, or similar to, I'm going to allow it. Lightsaber blades, tips of weapons, arms, poses, and other non-advantageous mods will likely be allowed. (unless it clearly is seeking an advantage, like cutting all your trooper legs to be squatting to have a better chance at heavy cover).

Theoretically, This Mod could allow him to make a ranged attack from the top of his light-saber. It also will make him easier to shoot at. So... I guess it's a wash like most other alterations I've seen brought up. I do wish that weapons didn't count for Line of sight though. Personally, I think the game workes fine as is, but i'd like to see a little bit of standardization, clarification, and adjustment to line of sight rules.

20 minutes ago, Draycos said:

Theoretically, This Mod could allow him to make a ranged attack from the top of his light-saber. It also will make him easier to shoot at. So... I guess it's a wash like most other alterations I've seen brought up. I do wish that weapons didn't count for Line of sight though. Personally, I think the game workes fine as is, but i'd like to see a little bit of standardization, clarification, and adjustment to line of sight rules.

Yeah, I suppose it could, I'm not too worried though. Most mods don't really help or harm.

I do think there should be another rank of cover called "just the tip"

Trooper minis that have less than 10% visible or just the mini's weapon within LoS cancel all but 1 hit before rolling defense.

I had a game where my Han Solo was running through a building holding an objective and Bossk landed 3 hits through a crack in the wall that scaled to about 2" wide.... while at an angle.... I was hella salty.

On 11/13/2019 at 4:12 AM, Mokoshkana said:

How would you rule a customization to a model like Dooku? I plan to change his lightsaber arm to the salute pose he gives Yoda before the duel in Episode II. It will definitely make him taller, but line of sight is still drawn from the top of the mini's head, so it's more of a disadvantage, no?

I plan on doing that conversion as well!

Model height volumes in the rules would be good, designers.

There have been so!e height clarification in he rules for example for the occupier tank (which doesn't let you use the gunner turret for line of sight calculations, however as any early rebel player will testify nodding dooku like this is not "for advantage" but is the opposite as it makes him in los a lot more often

I just read the PDF for the AT-ST painting scheme on the FFG website. The photo below clearly shows the firing arc covered up with basing material. Theoretically, this model cannot be used in tournament play. I wonder if FFG will allow the use of firing arc templates in tournaments.

There are 3d printed arcs that slot into the notch. My friend made them for me as my arcs are covered as well. They will correct this problem easily. They can be verified against any base that doesn't have the arcs covered with basing to prevent any cheating concerns.

2 hours ago, Mokoshkana said:

There are 3d printed arcs that slot into the notch. My friend made them for me as my arcs are covered as well. They will correct this problem easily. They can be verified against any base that doesn't have the arcs covered with basing to prevent any cheating concerns.

Yes, but the TO is not obligated to allow them, since they are a third party product.

I sent a message to Alex Davy, and he agrees. He figures that it can be used but it would be up to the TO to either allow or not allow the templates.

Then you do a swap. Bring an blank base (i.e. not painted or modified in any way) of each size necessary, and temporarily replace the model needing to check its arc with the blank base. Once arc status has been determined, put the original model back.

23 hours ago, Mokoshkana said:

Then you do a swap. Bring an blank base (i.e. not painted or modified in any way) of each size necessary, and temporarily replace the model needing to check its arc with the blank base. Once arc status has been determined, put the original model back.

Which is absolutely horrible for keeping the models in the right place. Now you can use one of the movement templates to TRY and keep the placements the exact same, but there can be some variation introduced by picking up and replacing bases. If a TO isn't going to allow you to use a third party tool to check the arcs, I'd be surprised if they let you pick up miniatures over and over in the course of a game...

19 hours ago, Caimheul1313 said:

Which is absolutely horrible for keeping the models in the right place. Now you can use one of the movement templates to TRY and keep the placements the exact same, but there can be some variation introduced by picking up and replacing bases. If a TO isn't going to allow you to use a third party tool to check the arcs, I'd be surprised if they let you pick up miniatures over and over in the course of a game...

Lol it's not that hard. As long as you keep pressure on the movement tool and mini during the replacement, everything will be okay. If a TO says no to both methods, then I'm not playing in that tournament I guess.