If a Wing Leader moves and then uses his/her action(s) to reposition with a barrel roll or boost, do the wingmates line up as expected with the new Wingleader?

For example, a Interceptor moves two forward and then boosts. Do the other interceptors in the wing, line up and then get their restricted actions?

Haha I literally wrote the same question as you were writing yours.

Bravo, good chap!

It does get a little weird. Do K-turn or Talon-roll wingmates get stress too? Or a reversing Quad-Jumper squad?

2 minutes ago, Randito said:

Bravo, good chap!

It does get a little weird. Do K-turn or Talon-roll wingmates get stress too? Or a reversing Quad-Jumper squad?

<Looks at his 3 Quadjumpers and $6 quads on Ebay>

<Thinks about 6 tractor tokens on a huge ship>

Afterburners becomes really powerful.

It also gets a little weird with cloaking and decloaking. Wingmates don't get a chance to cloak (because of the limited actions) but they could, in theory get the benefit of the 2-speed decloak reposition.

1 hour ago, Randito said:

Do K-turn or Talon-roll wingmates get stress too? Or a reversing Quad-Jumper squad?

From the rules reference: "a wingmate is treated as having fully executed the maneuver on the wing leader’s dial. This includes the speed, color, and bearing of the wing leader’s maneuver."

So...…… yes.

1 hour ago, Randito said:

Afterburners becomes really powerful.

It also gets a little weird with cloaking and decloaking. Wingmates don't get a chance to cloak (because of the limited actions) but they could, in theory get the benefit of the 2-speed decloak reposition.

Fortunately, being in a wing restricts decloak options so much that most people are probably not going to put cloaking ships like TIE phantoms in a wing. The wing leader can literally only decloak forward. Now, Echo does offer some more options there...wait a second.

So the rules state that a wingmate that has split from the wing and is currently stressed, ionized, tractored, or cloaked . This got me thinking that maybe you can't be cloaked in a wing. The bulleted list on "Forced Splitting" also states, "A wingmate must split from its wing if...the wing leader is removed, or becomes ionized or tractored." Cloak is conspicuously missing from this list, suggesting a wing leader can be cloaked.

Here's the part where I struggle: wing leaders move as normal during the Activation Phase, but the rules mention nothing about movement during the Systems Phase. So when the leader decloaks, are we even sure that the rest of the wing follows?

EDIT: Page 6 of the Epic Rules Reference refers to wing leaders cloaking under the "Wing Leader Actions" header, so that implies cloaking is legal after all. So we just assume that wingmates form up with the Wing Leader after it decloaks in the Systems Phase.

There may be side cases where some pilots don’t work well as wing leaders...

41 minutes ago, ChahDresh said:

From the rules reference: "a wingmate is treated as having fully executed the maneuver on the wing leader’s dial. This includes the speed, color, and bearing of the wing leader’s maneuver."

So...…… yes.

Anakin as wing leader in the Naboo N-1 can perform a barrel roll which is neither a maneuver or an action BEFORE he reveals his maneuver. How would that work?

27 minutes ago, Parakitor said:

Fortunately, being in a wing restricts decloak options so much that most people are probably not going to put cloaking ships like TIE phantoms in a wing. The wing leader can literally only decloak forward. Now, Echo does offer some more options there...wait a second.

So the rules state that a wingmate that has split from the wing and is currently stressed, ionized, tractored, or cloaked . This got me thinking that maybe you can't be cloaked in a wing. The bulleted list on "Forced Splitting" also states, "A wingmate must split from its wing if...the wing leader is removed, or becomes ionized or tractored." Cloak is conspicuously missing from this list, suggesting a wing leader can be cloaked.

Here's the part where I struggle: wing leaders move as normal during the Activation Phase, but the rules mention nothing about movement during the Systems Phase. So when the leader decloaks, are we even sure that the rest of the wing follows?

EDIT: Page 6 of the Epic Rules Reference refers to wing leaders cloaking under the "Wing Leader Actions" header, so that implies cloaking is legal after all. So we just assume that wingmates form up with the Wing Leader after it decloaks in the Systems Phase.

It might’ve been better to be more restrictive on what a wing leader can do, like repositioning with afterburners when the rest of the wing doesn’t have afterburners. Like maybe restrict the wing to follow the wing leader only with the wing leaders’ revealed maneuver, any actions that result in the wing leader repositioning before or after executing the maneuver would result in the wing leader splitting from the rest of the wing.

36 minutes ago, pakirby said:

Anakin as wing leader in the Naboo N-1 can perform a barrel roll which is neither a maneuver or an action BEFORE he reveals his maneuver. How would that work?

Forced splitting
Game effects can cause Forced splitting, in which a wingmate must leave its wing. A wingmate must split from its wing after any of the following occur:
• The ship cannot be placed into formation during setup.
• The ship cannot be placed into formation while moving (see Moving Wingmates).
• The ship becomes ionized or tractored.
• The ship is stressed and its wing leader executes a red maneuver.
• An effect other than a maneuver instructs the ship to move or rotate its base.
• The wing leader is removed.
• The wing leader becomes ionized or tractored.
Due to forced splitting that occurs after the Planning Phase and before the Engagement Phase, it is possible that a ship might not have a maneuver dial assigned to it for the Activation Phase. If a split ship does not have a dial assigned in the Activation Phase, it does not activate as normal. Instead, at the end of the Activation Phase, it must execute a [2 󲁞] maneuver, skip its Perform Action step, and gain one stress token.

And I would assume that if the wing leader would split from the wing, all of its wingmates split as well?

1 minute ago, pakirby said:

And I would assume that if the wing leader would split from the wing, all of its wingmates split as well?

So the way I read it is the wing leader technically never splits, i.e. it never moves its card to the lower position to signify it isn't in the wing (because the wing leader is always in the wing). Whenever a wing leader would split, instead all the wingmates split.

26 minutes ago, pakirby said:

Anakin as wing leader in the Naboo N-1 can perform a barrel roll which is neither a maneuver or an action BEFORE he reveals his maneuver. How would that work?

Well, first off he is likely flanked by ships on either side, so he can't barrel roll. If we assume one of his wingmates is gone, than I think he could perform his pre-maneuver barrel roll in that direction because "a wing leader activates as normal."

@pakirby quoted an important section of the rules reference, but it applies to wingmates, not wing leaders. Specifically the part that says, "A wingmate is forced to split if...an effect other than a maneuver instructs the ship to move or rotate its base." I think wing leaders are free to do such movement, barring the stated exceptions to SLAM and cloak.

53 minutes ago, pakirby said:

Anakin as wing leader in the Naboo N-1 can perform a barrel roll which is neither a maneuver or an action BEFORE he reveals his maneuver. How would that work?

My guess is "badly" because he wouldn't have room to preform a barrel roll if he's Wing Leader. So you'd be wasting your barrel roll.

25 minutes ago, Faerie1979 said:

My guess is "badly" because he wouldn't have room to preform a barrel roll if he's Wing Leader. So you'd be wasting your barrel roll.

Not if he no longer has a flanking wingmate 🙂

In which case, it wouldn't matter would it? Just preform the maneuver as normal, activate, move, take an action, reform the Wing around the Leader, and have them take their focus action. Assuming nobody was stressed.

Why wouldn't a phantom wing leader be able to decloak to the side? Is there not sufficient space to move past the left/right flank?

I haven't seen the wing tool first hand, but if it leaves about a template's width gap between ships you should be golden (barring obstacles and other ships not part of the wing).

Also, Phantoms never actually need to take the cloak action, they can evade and gain the token via the ship ability.

Wing formations look to be fairly tight. As such, unless a wingmate has split off for one reason or another, there's no room for sideways movement before executing your dialed in maneuver.

3 hours ago, Faerie1979 said:

Wing formations look to be fairly tight. As such, unless a wingmate has split off for one reason or another, there's no room for sideways movement before executing your dialed in maneuver.

The Decloak moves you two clear base lengths. A base width (which is less) and the template-width gap between ships in a wing does not come to as much, so a decloak easily hops over a flanking wingman.

On 11/11/2019 at 12:10 AM, Hand of Vecna said:

Why wouldn't a phantom wing leader be able to decloak to the side? Is there not sufficient space to move past the left/right flank?

I haven't seen the wing tool first hand, but if it leaves about a template's width gap between ships you should be golden (barring obstacles and other ships not part of the wing).

Also, Phantoms never actually need to take the cloak action, they can evade and gain the token via the ship ability.

Good points! l clearly I don't play with TIE phantoms enough! 😅

On 11/10/2019 at 11:10 PM, Hand of Vecna said:

Why wouldn't a phantom wing leader be able to decloak to the side? Is there not sufficient space to move past the left/right flank?

I haven't seen the wing tool first hand, but if it leaves about a template's width gap between ships you should be golden (barring obstacles and other ships not part of the wing).

Also, Phantoms never actually need to take the cloak action, they can evade and gain the token via the ship ability.

I think that anytime a Phantom would decloak (outside of the wing leader) they would break out of the wing per this clause:

• An effect other than a maneuver instructs the ship to move or rotate its base .

The Phantom wing would reposition with their wing leader's decloak just fine, but then the individual Phantoms would then decloak from that position, breaking formation.

On 11/19/2019 at 3:57 PM, 5050Saint said:

I think that anytime a Phantom would decloak (outside of the wing leader) they would break out of the wing per this clause:

• An effect other than a maneuver instructs the ship to move or rotate its base .

The Phantom wing would reposition with their wing leader's decloak just fine, but then the individual Phantoms would then decloak from that position, breaking formation.

Actually, they will break from the wing during the Device Phase if they decloak, then be forced to do a 2S - which throws out my whole game plan.

Back to the drawing board!

Nvrmnd. Missed when the question I replied to was posted. It's been answered.

On 11/11/2019 at 5:58 AM, rawbean said:

The Decloak moves you two clear base lengths. A base width (which is less) and the template-width gap between ships in a wing does not come to as much, so a decloak easily hops over a flanking wingman.

Regarding this... 2 full base lengths may be enough to clear your wingmate. However the rules specifically state you can't decloak to the side if you're in a wing, only going forward. No exceptions. If you want to decloak to the left or right, you have to split up the Wing. As such a Decloak maneuver wouldn't let you jump the Wing to the left or right two base lengths. And a barrel roll doesn't have enough clearance, so even if you are able to do one before moving, the barrel roll would fail due to there being no room for it.