Sage ability and forbidden lore?

By Acolyteman, in Dark Heresy Rules Questions

Does a sage's ability to auto pass any lore test cover forbidden lore?

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... a Sage character may spend a Fate point to automatically succeed at a Logic or any Lore skill test...

Looks like a yes to me. However there are some other key points to remember.

On page 95 of Dark Heresy 2E Core Rulebook, under Untrained Skill Use -

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A character can, however, still use skills in which he has no training when needs must...

The only exceptions to this rule are Specialist skills (see below) which require a level of ability that simply cannot be attempted by the untrained. ...

So even if you are a Sage trying to spend a Fate point, if you don't have Known level of training in a particular field of Forbidden Lore then you can't even begin the Lore check let alone auto-succeed at it. In addition, a Lore check represents seeking out Lore you don't already know, as in accessing databases or hunting through libraries. Auto-succeeding on a Forbidden Lore skill check could have dreadful consequences for you and your warband, particularly if the check in question represents something very difficult to obtain, should someone of import notice you during it. And lastly, on page 24 of Dark Heresy 2E Core Rulebook under Automatic Success and Failure -

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... the GM might determine that some tasks are so difficult that the character has no chance of success and fails automatically.

Should your GM decide it, your sage skill might not be able to auto-succeed at obtaining the most impossible to discern secrets of various fields of Lore or perhaps you might not be in the right situation to put that particular trait to use. Determining the reality behind the God Emperor's condition, history, etc. could be beyond any acolyte or inquisitor, and you'll never be able to learn the darkest secrets of Archaeotech's origins if you're stranded on a feral world devoid of technology.

Some players suggest a Sage should be able to auto-succeed on Lore that they do not have Known training in based on the text on page 72 of Dark Heresy 2E Core Rulebook -

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Sages tend to know a little about everything; even if they have not studied the subject expansively, there is always a good chance that they have come across it in one of their research endeavours. Even when presented with a subject which they know little or nothing about, it takes them little time to process new information or engage in extensive research. ...

This seems to imply that a Sage is uniquely capable of bypassing the untrained restrictions placed on Specialist skills. Should a GM decide to rule in favor of this, I would not fault them. However, that GM should also consider the phrase "takes them little time to process new information or engage in extensive research". This process of obtaining new information and extensively researching it is something all characters do in their own way and is typically referred to in game terms as experience points. Spending those experience points on gaining Known level training in a Forbidden Lore would represent "that they have come across it in one of their research endeavours" and would then enable the Sage to auto-succeed at future Lore checks via the expenditure of Fate.

Edited by imakunee
Additional clarity and a rebuttal consideration

It's basically a free research success as imakunee relates.

As far as I read it.