Hi all!

Today in a game i was fighting an opponent who was fielding Leia. I charged her, then my opponent did a Withdraw action and, at the end of the activation, used Leia's Bombardment since he played the card. Was he allowed to do so, or withdrawing prevents this?

27 minutes ago, S4tosh1 said:

Hi all!

Today in a game i was fighting an opponent who was fielding Leia. I charged her, then my opponent did a Withdraw action and, at the end of the activation, used Leia's Bombardment since he played the card. Was he allowed to do so, or withdrawing prevents this?

Its perfectly legal. Withdraw only prevents you from using abbilities on that withdrawal move, but there's no rule preventing you for using an abbility that triggers at the end of that unit's activation

Thanks! I was thinking the same, yet i wanted to be 100% sure. Thank you!

1 hour ago, Lemmiwinks86 said:

Its perfectly legal. Withdraw only prevents you from using abbilities on that withdrawal move, but there's no rule preventing you for using an abbility that triggers at the end of that unit's activation

It's actually not legal. "At the end" is still during the activation. It does not mean "after" the activation. And you can't trigger any of your abilities when you withdraw, so no bombardment on that turn.

Withdraw specifically calls out no free abilities too iirc. Unfortunately not legal

13 hours ago, nashjaee said:

It's actually not legal. "At the end" is still during the activation. It does not mean "after" the activation. And you can't trigger any of your abilities when you withdraw, so no bombardment on that turn.

I understand that that interpretation could be the correct one, but my logic (that may be wrong) is this:

Rules state among other dots:

• A unit that is withdrawing cannot perform any other actions, including free actions, and cannot use any of its own abilities or keywords while withdrawing .
• A withdraw is considered a move action.

As I understand, the turn will go:

1. Start of unit activation
2. Perform Rally
3. Use all of that unit's actions to perform a withdraw (speed-1 move action)
4. End of unit's activation, you already ended the withdraw (move) so you can use the Coordinated Bombardment abbility

@Lemmiwinks86
"I understand that that interpretation could be the correct one, but my logic (that may be wrong) is this:

Rules state among other dots:

• A unit that is withdrawing cannot perform any other actions, including free actions, and cannot use any of its own abilities or keywords while withdrawing.
• A withdraw is considered a move action.

As I understand, the turn will go:

1. Start of unit activation
2. Perform Rally
3. Use all of that unit's actions to perform a withdraw (speed-1 move action)
4. End of unit's activation, you already ended the withdraw (move) so you can use the Coordinated Bombardment abbility"

Lemmiwinks is correct that the attacks happen.

The withdrawal only prohibits other things during the Perform Actions step, which is just one step in the activation, not the entire activation.

RRG pg 37 (under Engaged):
To exit an engagement, a unit must withdraw by using
its entire activation to perform a speed-1 move. A unit
that is withdrawing cannot do anything during the
“Perform Actions” step of its activation except perform this
speed-1 move.

RRG pg 73 (under Withdraw)
A unit that is withdrawing cannot perform any other
actions, including free actions, and cannot use any of its
own abilities or keywords while withdrawing.

Importantly, the timing of the prohibitions is during the Perform Actions step and the prohibition doesn't cover non-action attacks.

Leia's coordinated bombardment is worded as thus:
"At the end of Leia Organa's activation, she may perform up to 3 attacks against different enemy units using the following weapon:"

So it both happens after the prohibited timeframe (Perform Actions step and isn't an action (not even a free action, it couldn't be, since units are limited to one attack during their activation).

8 hours ago, Lemmiwinks86 said:

I understand that that interpretation could be the correct one, but my logic (that may be wrong) is this:

Rules state among other dots:

• A unit that is withdrawing cannot perform any other actions, including free actions, and cannot use any of its own abilities or keywords while withdrawing .
• A withdraw is considered a move action.

As I understand, the turn will go:

1. Start of unit activation
2. Perform Rally
3. Use all of that unit's actions to perform a withdraw (speed-1 move action)
4. End of unit's activation, you already ended the withdraw (move) so you can use the Coordinated Bombardment abbility

It is indeed a move action, but I don't think that's really relevant. I believe that bullet is there for the sake of other effects/abilities that may trigger off of move actions (other units' abilities, of course, not your own since you can't use them). This is the bullet that I think clarifies things:

Quote

To withdraw a unit must use its entire activation and spend
all of it's available actions to perform a single speed-1 move.

I take this to mean that you are considered to be withdrawing for the duration of the activation. It's not limited to a single step. So throughout the activation you cannot trigger any abilities other than the speed-1 move.

16 minutes ago, nashjaee said:

It is indeed a move action, but I don't think that's really relevant. I believe that bullet is there for the sake of other effects/abilities that may trigger off of move actions (other units' abilities, of course, not your own since you can't use them). This is the bullet that I think clarifies things:

I take this to mean that you are considered to be withdrawing for the duration of the activation. It's not limited to a single step. So throughout the activation you cannot trigger any abilities other than the speed-1 move.

What @Derrault said its important. I havent´'t look under "Engaged", but there it specifies that the withdrawing unit cannot do anything else during its "Perform Action Step":

"To exit an engagement, a unit must withdraw by using its entire activation to perform a speed-1 move. A unit that is withdrawing cannot do anything during the “Perform Actions” step of its activation except perform this speed-1 move."

1 hour ago, Lemmiwinks86 said:

What @Derrault said its important. I havent´'t look under "Engaged", but there it specifies that the withdrawing unit cannot do anything else during its "Perform Action Step":

"To exit an engagement, a unit must withdraw by using its entire activation to perform a speed-1 move. A unit that is withdrawing cannot do anything during the “Perform Actions” step of its activation except perform this speed-1 move."

The two statements don't conflict with each other, though. One of them is just more broad than the other.

@nashjaee
"I take this to mean that you are considered to be withdrawing for the duration of the activation."

It's not open to interpretation, fortunately. The prohibition for withdrawal applies to 'while withdrawing'.

That sets a distinct time-frame within the phases of the units activation. You absolutely, 100% get the attacks from Leia's command card.

41 minutes ago, Derrault said:

@nashjaee
"I take this to mean that you are considered to be withdrawing for the duration of the activation."

It's not open to interpretation, fortunately. The prohibition for withdrawal applies to 'while withdrawing'.

That sets a distinct time-frame within the phases of the units activation. You absolutely, 100% get the attacks from Leia's command card.

You may have missed this part:

"To withdraw a unit must use its entire activation [...]"

You spend your whole activation to do it. You are withdrawing for the duration of the activation.

1 hour ago, nashjaee said:

You may have missed this part:

"To withdraw a unit must use its entire activation [...]"

You spend your whole activation to do it. You are withdrawing for the duration of the activation.

The using part of the activation would be the two actions plus any free actions.

I didn’t miss it.

17 hours ago, Derrault said:

The using part of the activation would be the two actions plus any free actions.

Hmm, where are you getting that from? It says “entire”.

If you’re truly not convinced by that, then and email might be in order.

4 hours ago, nashjaee said:

Hmm, where are you getting that from? It says “entire”.

If you’re truly not convinced by that, then and email might be in order.

Yes and? The attacks aren’t actions or free actions.

3 hours ago, Derrault said:

Yes and? The attacks aren’t actions or free actions.

They are among Leia’s “abilities”, which are also disallowed.

1 minute ago, nashjaee said:

They are among Leia’s “abilities”, which are also disallowed.

No, that’s a command card effect.

Also, it doesn’t take place during the withdrawal, so again, not a problem.

12 minutes ago, Derrault said:

No, that’s a command card effect.

Yeah but it’s her command card. Granted, this might be the best shot at getting it to work. If you’ve got an email that says so go ahead and present it. But it feels like a big stretch.

12 minutes ago, Derrault said:

Also, it doesn’t take place during the withdrawal, so again, not a problem.

Again, see above regarding “entire”.

29 minutes ago, nashjaee said:

Yeah but it’s her command card. Granted, this might be the best shot at getting it to work. If you’ve got an email that says so go ahead and present it. But it feels like a big stretch.

Again, see above regarding “entire”.

What about entire? It did use its activation, see the actual withdrawal and engaged entries, which were already supplied.

Yeah, entire is definitely the whole activation from start to finish. We had to rule on this at worlds @nashjaee @Derrault , straight from Brendon (Worlds Judge) and the Devs it was a no.

The attack happens at the end of your activation, and a withdraw takes up your entire activation, including free actions like those granted from command cards.

will chime in and also add that the card specifically says "at the end of the activation" not after the activation. giving away that her command card is during her activation and with panic/withdraw taking up the entire activation bombardment can't be used.

21 hours ago, TalkPolite said:

Yeah, entire is definitely the whole activation from start to finish. We had to rule on this at worlds @nashjaee @Derrault , straight from Brendon (Worlds Judge) and the Devs it was a no.

The attack happens at the end of your activation, and a withdraw takes up your entire activation, including free actions like those granted from command cards.

It’s not a free action though, or any action at all.

6 minutes ago, Derrault said:

It’s not a free action though, or any action at all.

“Actions” and “abilities” are equally restricted. TP meant that withdraw doesn’t allow you to do anything .

22 hours ago, Derrault said:

What about entire? It did use its activation, see the actual withdrawal and engaged entries, which were already supplied.

I explained what I meant by “entire” a few posts above. Regardless, the devs have provided the ruling as noted by TP.

Essentially the attacks aren't triggered by Leia they are triggered by the end of Leia's activation, so they don't even technically happen during it.

17 minutes ago, nashjaee said:

“Actions” and “abilities” are equally restricted. TP meant that withdraw doesn’t allow you to do anything .

I explained what I meant by “entire” a few posts above. Regardless, the devs have provided the ruling as noted by TP.

Fair enough, they need to rewrite the entry in the RRG to match that ruling then.